BRDC british f3 2016 (was brdc f4)

[DiamondJim]

McLaren providing a mid-season prize according to F4 website: http://www.formula4.com/news/mclaren...6-drivers.aspx

Another good name to have involved. Guess it links well with BRDC name too.

[shatners bassoon]

Originally Posted by jaapblijleven

How can you say with dry eyes that lads and dads team have a chance with UNLIMITED testing? (Ben Anderson - Autosport)Off course the profi teams will find an advantage with lots of testing. And we all know testing = $$$$$$ So really another class diluting the pool.

Jaap

Is this the case if the series, as argued here, is 'too restrictive'?

There are a lot of formulae out there but not many at entry level, mainly because Formula Ford did a great job for 20 years and enough of one for another 10 or 15. Thing is, if you're a kid out of karting where do you go now? If nothing else, having BRDC and now McLaren backing to an MSV series surely gives it a fair bit of kudos that's lacking from any of the alternatives, especially now FFord is looking shakey and the blue oval has little motorsport influence outside this in Europe? We'll see if the privateers can compete with the teams soon enough.

It's a bit like the old F1 argument about teams being there for the love of it, and manufacturers as a marketing tool - Ford can sell cars through soccer matches, soap operas or pop concerts, whereas the BRDC needs future members, McLaren drivers for its cars and MSV drivers on its circuits.

[REALIST]

Originally Posted by shatners bassoon

Is this the case if the series, as argued here, is 'too restrictive'?

There are a lot of formulae out there but not many at entry level, mainly because Formula Ford did a great job for 20 years and enough of one for another 10 or 15. Thing is, if you're a kid out of karting where do you go now? If nothing else, having BRDC and now McLaren backing to an MSV series surely gives it a fair bit of kudos that's lacking from any of the alternatives, especially now FFord is looking shakey and the blue oval has little motorsport influence outside this in Europe? We'll see if the privateers can compete with the teams soon enough.

It's a bit like the old F1 argument about teams being there for the love of it, and manufacturers as a marketing tool - Ford can sell cars through soccer matches, soap operas or pop concerts, whereas the BRDC needs future members, McLaren drivers for its cars and MSV drivers on its circuits.

I think you overstate the value of a trip around McLaren headquarters.

Let's face it, BARC FR has everything that this formula has and a lot more in terms of a carbon tub and proper damping system etc.

But of course, it is BARC FR not MSVR FR, isnt it?

[EastonNeston]

Realist, you've hit the nail perfectly on the head, a more accurate title for this series would be "fpa junior".

[shatners bassoon]

Trouble is, FRenault BARC's current standing is occasioned by the downfall of FRenault UK - Renault dropping the ball has led to a club series taking it's place and that's not sustainable. Look at the two series' champions - one has F1 graduates and champions in abundance. Would you expect aspiring karters to look to 750MC's rebranded F4 for example? After all there's plenty of chassis and engine freedom there...

[FFfan]

Originally Posted by shatners bassoon

Trouble is, FRenault BARC's current standing is occasioned by the downfall of FRenault UK - Renault dropping the ball has led to a club series taking it's place and that's not sustainable. Look at the two series' champions - one has F1 graduates and champions in abundance. Would you expect aspiring karters to look to 750MC's rebranded F4 for example? After all there's plenty of chassis and engine freedom there...

As far as I am aware, there is only one driver in 2012 FR BARC that was signed up to to FRUK championship and that is Josh Webster. All of the other drivers (Fortec & Mark Burdett) migrated to the Northern European Cup.

The smallest FR BARC entry to date this season was 25 at the opening weekend at Snetterton. The entry could top 30 at the finale at Silverstone the weekend after next with additional entries from Cullen Motorsport (Ryan Cullen) & Cliff Dempsey Racing (Matt Brabham)

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by REALIST

I think you overstate the value of a trip around McLaren headquarters.

Let's face it, BARC FR has everything that this formula has and a lot more in terms of a carbon tub and proper damping system etc.

But of course, it is BARC FR not MSVR FR, isnt it?

I don't quite see it like that.

What BARC Renault hasn't had so far this year (or any year) is decent promotion in terms of TV coverage and all the various PR added value that, like it or not, Palmer is extremely good at. This is a shame as this year's racing has been outstanding and I'm looking forward to the "grand final" being live on the BTCC programme on ITV4.

I don't see how not having a carbon tub matters at all, although I would have preferred adjustable dampers, but I assume RF was given a "target price" to build to and something had to give? There's nothing "improper" about the sealed damping system though imho, it's just not ideal.

In the end it will be the customer who decides, were I a less than super rich father of a son or daughter wanting to start a career in single-seaters I think I'd be daft not to seriously give this a look.

I think the super rich will still side-step this series rather than risk competing on a level playing field unfortunately but that is a matter that can really only be addressed by the MSA through the licensing system.

[REALIST]

Originally Posted by shatners bassoon

Trouble is, FRenault BARC's current standing is occasioned by the downfall of FRenault UK - Renault dropping the ball has led to a club series taking it's place and that's not sustainable. Look at the two series' champions - one has F1 graduates and champions in abundance. Would you expect aspiring karters to look to 750MC's rebranded F4 for example? After all there's plenty of chassis and engine freedom there...

Not really. BARC FR has had good solid grids since the carbon cars were allowed in in 2005, regardless of the stae of FRUK.

[REALIST]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

I don't quite see it like that.

What BARC Renault hasn't had so far this year (or any year) is decent promotion in terms of TV coverage and all the various PR added value that, like it or not, Palmer is extremely good at. This is a shame as this year's racing has been outstanding and I'm looking forward to the "grand final" being live on the BTCC programme on ITV4.

I don't see how not having a carbon tub matters at all, although I would have preferred adjustable dampers, but I assume RF was given a "target price" to build to and something had to give? There's nothing "improper" about the sealed damping system though imho, it's just not ideal.

In the end it will be the customer who decides, were I a less than super rich father of a son or daughter wanting to start a career in single-seaters I think I'd be daft not to seriously give this a look.

I think the super rich will still side-step this series rather than risk competing on a level playing field unfortunately but that is a matter that can really only be addressed by the MSA through the licensing system.

I accept that the promotion of BARC FR could be better but wouldn't agree that MSVR promote their series that much better in any meaningfull way. Not difficult to get a series on TV if you can get the competitors to pay for it but it makes little real difference.

As for the super rich, of course they won't go anywhere near this or BARC FR.

The point is that BARC FR has everything and more than F4 will, in what really matters and can be done for the same or most likely a lower budget.

As for a carbon tub not mattering, I can only assume that you have never driven or run both types of car?

[bella]

Originally Posted by REALIST

As for a carbon tub not mattering, I can only assume that you have never driven or run both types of car?

speaking as the forum resident fence-sitter....

as you go further down the ladder there are fewer things for the driver to have to work with, fewer variables. then when you get down to fford it's the bare bones - learning to race, the basic set up stuff and learning how to drive properly. then as a driver goes further up the ladder there's another variable or two thrown in there for him to think about and learn to manage.

i suspect what flavio means is that it's irrelevant whether a car has a carbon tub or not if you're positioning it as a series in which drivers learn to *drive* and race. the most important thing is that it's cheap and inclusive. all formulae shouldn't drive or handle the same - that's cheating a driver out of learning how to manage a wide range of cars.

maybe. perhaps

[REALIST]

Originally Posted by bella

speaking as the forum resident fence-sitter....

as you go further down the ladder there are fewer things for the driver to have to work with, fewer variables. then when you get down to fford it's the bare bones - learning to race, the basic set up stuff and learning how to drive properly. then as a driver goes further up the ladder there's another variable or two thrown in there for him to think about and learn to manage.

i suspect what flavio means is that it's irrelevant whether a car has a carbon tub or not if you're positioning it as a series in which drivers learn to *drive* and race. the most important thing is that it's cheap and inclusive. all formulae shouldn't drive or handle the same - that's cheating a driver out of learning how to manage a wide range of cars.

maybe. perhaps

A good comment and I accept what you say except that this series isn't that cheap.

For the same money or less you could be running in a series using carbon tubs and proper suspension etc.

If F4 offers old fashioned technology it should be at old fashioned cost.

[DiamondJim]

Seems a bit strong calling F4 technology old fashioned based on its spaceframe chassis when it's got a lot else going for it. Still, I agree there's much to be said in favour of Renault BARC and in my opinion it will continue to be just as big a success next year. They're doing a very good job and running it sensibly - it's the other junior series that need to look over their shoulder...

[Stones1987]

SWB Motorsport have now joined so it appears. I can see teams dovetailing like Lanan Racing, who will be running cars in F3 Cup as well as F4.
http://www.formula4.com/news/swb-mot...-for-2013.aspx

[EastonNeston]

F4 may well become the entry level formula for teams and drivers, which would effectively kill of FFord and Intersteps as 'mainstream' first level formulas.

I still have serious doubt's about the value of the series for driver & engineer development, but it looks like it will attract a decent entry, with some reasonable 'pro' teams involved. It will be interesting if top BARC teams, like Fortec, MGR, Hillspeed & CDR decide to join the series. If they do it would add a lot of credibility to to series and the leading drivers.

[Redracer77]

I think the idea is a great idea and Ford should have stolen the march last year by adding FF2000 type cars to the championship rather than create a car that cost around £50,000 to buy in these tough times financially. I feel sorry for the UK Formula Ford teams who bought chassis’ this year as they will struggle to fill next year even if they get that extra TOCA slot (IMHO).

JP has a lot of doubters and some people didn’t like his FPA business model, but what it did was offer value for money and plenty of track time. You are always going to get the drivers that can’t get in the top 10, who will criticise the set up as he/she can’t buy a good engineer or get a “special” engine but these type of Formula’s allow people to get on track for sensible money (if you can ever say that in motorsport). Without the need to constantly test ratios and play with dampers. The drivers out of karts will get to race a slicks and wings car and just concentrate on race craft and learning circuits without the added complication of having to have wizz kid data engineers and mega trick set ups that only miles and miles of testing will help with. You will still get the likes of Jamun (if they enter) doing 30 days testing as some drivers will be there to spend it. I don’t believe that it will be possible to run with a team for £70k but it will be more like £100k – £120k with the testing but I do think that a family run team will have the ability to mix it at the front off the back of a trailer like Tim Bridgeman did in Formula BMW which is what it is all about and should be applauded.

This championship sets you up nicely for a season in Euro FR before racing in F3. My only concern is that you double costs every year in the early formulas - £120k (F4) to £220k (FR) to then £750k for F3..... I wouldn’t be getting too concerned about a formula that is putting the right ingredients in place to help people get on the grid in a well run, well promoted championship but efforts should be channelled into how F3 can bring its costs down to reality to allow more people the opportunity to compete at that level.

Good luck to all who enter.

[shatners bassoon]

Two more teams signed up...

http://www.formula4.com/news/mgr-to-...-two-cars.aspx

http://www.formula4.com/news/brdc-f4...-for-2013.aspx

Website says MGR have 10th and 11th cars - so with Dittman's team that's at least 12 on the grid with just under 7 months to round 1

[andrewc]

I've heard 14 cars have been sold so far.

[bella]

i presume when they say "sold", they mean initial deposits have been put down?

[JNWRF01]

looking at the website - 14 deposits down / 3 other cars reserved / 3 left for sale...
http://www.formula4.com/teams-and-drivers.aspx

Shows you the open goal that FF have been staring at for years!

[andrewc]

The deposit is £ £9,750 so I guess they've taken 14 deposits, with three in negotiation.

£ 10,000 due in January with the balance due just before car is collected.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Well that shows what a little listening to customers can do! Looks like it'll be a sell out and I hope they increase the grid size.

Meanwhile the Formula Ford counter attack, presumably an ecoboost with wings and a spot on the TOCA package, is imminent.

Anyone else hear that stable door banging?

[DiamondJim]

Hillspeed announced this morning...

[dank]

Comtec to run three cars next year.

[brands hatch]

"Announcement pending" on the remaining two cars. I wonder if there will be any scope/possibility of increasing the number of cars available? 26? Seems to have been massively popular with the teams at least. Can't see them having too much trouble filling the seat's.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by brands hatch

"Announcement pending" on the remaining two cars. I wonder if there will be any scope/possibility of increasing the number of cars available? 26? Seems to have been massively popular with the teams at least. Can't see them having too much trouble filling the seat's.

I hope so. I'd also like to see a few more drivers running themselves but maybe that's a pipe dream these days.