Alfa Romeo in 2006 WTCC or not ? - Page 3

Duffacus · 28 Oct 2005, 21:45 (Ref:1446375)

BMW and Alfa have given us some of the best action throughout the last few years, even if it was a little down to the other manufacturers not having caught up, however, I think it is a blow to the WTCC and to the fans alike that Alfa is pulling out. Yes the other manufacturers will fill out the top 8 and get their chance, but I don't think it will be the same without those prominent red cars in the mix

kmchow · 29 Oct 2005, 16:49 (Ref:1446870)

Quote:

Originally Posted by touringlegend

The Autosport Mag article did mention that the WTCC boss Marcello Lotti (forgive me if I have spelt his name wrongly) was trying to put together a loan of 2 156's to a Privateer team, and with the blessing of Alfa, they could still be entered as a works team.

It would be interesting to see how the other manufacturers feel about such a setup? Ditto to see how well a top (must be??) Independent can do with such a good car to start as the basis for an entry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Perhaps Thommo will go there, although I feel he'd be stupid to refused a VXR BTCC drive if it was offered to him.

But does he get any respect from racing in or even winning a BTCC championship in it's current state? Does it help his resume? Is it better to race in midpack in the more competitive WTCC? Would he receive more respect?

Regards the WTCC, it's a pity that Alfa Romeo are leaving. But it's a sign that no championship is so perfect a manufacturer can't afford to leave it. I don't mean to be rude but it may stop a lot of people going on about how great it is. A reality check if you like.[/QUOTE]

kmchow · 29 Oct 2005, 16:52 (Ref:1446873)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazard

If I'm brutally honest, the loss of Alfa, though a blow...won't cause much damage to the WTCC I feel. BMW will now have Seat to bat off, and Chevrolet, Ford and Honda will neatly fill out the top 8 - which is all you see on TV anyway.

Didn't someone say BMW was cutting it's commitment from 6 down to 4 cars? Will JAS be able to field a 2nd car in '06? Honda hasn't upped their support?

**FIRE** · 29 Oct 2005, 17:19 (Ref:1446893)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmchow

Didn't someone say BMW was cutting it's commitment from 6 down to 4 cars? Will JAS be able to field a 2nd car in '06? Honda hasn't upped their support?

A while ago there were rumours BMW UK will move to BTCC and BMW Italy-Spain will quit WTCC. See the "WTCC, 2006, Rumours, news, dates etc" topic.

**touringlegend** · 30 Oct 2005, 01:11 (Ref:1447174)

The BTCC in it's current state ? Granted it's off season right now with a few teams to confirm but it was far from in a state during the 2005 season.

kmchow · 30 Oct 2005, 02:10 (Ref:1447193)

Quote:

Originally Posted by touringlegend

The BTCC in it's current state ? Granted it's off season right now with a few teams to confirm but it was far from in a state during the 2005 season.

With another year of S2000, there will be another year of used cars being made available as teams sell or upgrade to newer spec cars. Hopefully, this makes the cars more financially attractive to potential teams, especially BTCC ones!

Hazard · 30 Oct 2005, 10:42 (Ref:1447360)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmchow

Didn't someone say BMW was cutting it's commitment from 6 down to 4 cars? Will JAS be able to field a 2nd car in '06? Honda hasn't upped their support?

I'm probably being optimistic, but Honda's lack of support so far has probably been due to lack of confidence in the drivers JAS has been able to field. With Balzan last year, just Colciago this year and Larini a testing maybe...Honda wasn't too bothered as title glory was unlikely.

Given the pace of the car in Colciago's hands earlier, and the availability of Alfa's drivers (particularly thinking Tarquini & Thompson here)...I'd love to think Honda throw the money in and we might even have Honda well in the running next year.

Sodemo · 30 Oct 2005, 11:19 (Ref:1447396)

Touring cars in general haven't been in good health since about 1998 regardless of series.
You know who I blame?
Ford.

They released the Focus, then every manufacturer released Focus clones, which they wanted to promote, but no race series would have them.

Joe Taylor · 30 Oct 2005, 22:50 (Ref:1447958)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monster

Touring cars in general haven't been in good health since about 1998 regardless of series.
You know who I blame?
Ford.

They released the Focus, then every manufacturer released Focus clones, which they wanted to promote, but no race series would have them.

So it's all Ford's fault for releasing a good car that was popular

kmchow · 31 Oct 2005, 01:43 (Ref:1448011)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monster

Touring cars in general haven't been in good health since about 1998 regardless of series.
You know who I blame?
Ford.

They released the Focus, then every manufacturer released Focus clones, which they wanted to promote, but no race series would have them.

You definitely lost me!

But no race series would have Ford? Any race series would be happy for a Works entry? As long as the organizer isn't expected to pay for the race team?

racer69 · 1 Nov 2005, 06:34 (Ref:1449057)

I think what 'The Monster' means is that the Focus wasn't eligible for any series.

I agree with the statement about Touring cars being in decline since 1998. Nowadays the only 'saloon' type categories in good health are V8Supercars and the DTM, with neither of them being real Touring Cars at all.

Kicking-back · 1 Nov 2005, 06:47 (Ref:1449061)

And both of those series only have 2 manufacturers.

Which may actually be why they work.

kmchow · 1 Nov 2005, 06:58 (Ref:1449065)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

I think what 'The Monster' means is that the Focus wasn't eligible for any series.

Is Monster blaming the Focus hatchback specifically or the entire product line including the saloons? Hmmm...is it really the Focus fault or touring car's fault? Touring cars was (or still is??) in decline during the period the Focus was introduced. It came at a bad time? The Focus was first sold in '98 in Europe? There was no stable/established touring car series for it.

It was raced at the Works level in the TC2000 in Argentina and raced in the WRC?

Since the establishment of S2000 and BTC rules, Ford could have again fielded teams in '01/'02, but they chose not to? And for '05, Ford still hasn't fully stepped up to the WTCC as a full works team. Or can you blame Ford's involvement in F1 as draining all their financial resources?

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

I agree with the statement about Touring cars being in decline since 1998. Nowadays the only 'saloon' type categories in good health are V8Supercars and the DTM, with neither of them being real Touring Cars at all.

I would say that the V8 Supercars still uses the original production chassis so that would qualify it as a touring cars while the DTM is now basically a silhouette racing series?

flor · 1 Nov 2005, 07:13 (Ref:1449071)

more prototype than silhouette, imho

E46 · 1 Nov 2005, 09:55 (Ref:1449185)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

A while ago there were rumours BMW UK will move to BTCC and BMW Italy-Spain will quit WTCC. See the "WTCC, 2006, Rumours, news, dates etc" topic.

italiaracing.net says Adrian Vallés (WS driver) has tested Ravaglia BMW 320i at Adria. He could drive the Garcia´s car in 2006. Felix Porteiro (other WS driver) is named too.

Sodemo · 8 Nov 2005, 11:01 (Ref:1455068)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmchow

Is Monster blaming the Focus hatchback specifically or the entire product line including the saloons? Hmmm...is it really the Focus fault or touring car's fault? Touring cars was (or still is??) in decline during the period the Focus was introduced. It came at a bad time? The Focus was first sold in '98 in Europe? There was no stable/established touring car series for it.

It was raced at the Works level in the TC2000 in Argentina and raced in the WRC?

Since the establishment of S2000 and BTC rules, Ford could have again fielded teams in '01/'02, but they chose not to? And for '05, Ford still hasn't fully stepped up to the WTCC as a full works team. Or can you blame Ford's involvement in F1 as draining all their financial resources?

I would say that the V8 Supercars still uses the original production chassis so that would qualify it as a touring cars while the DTM is now basically a silhouette racing series?

Heh heh, it was actually a rather tounge in cheek comment I was making about Ford and the Focus.
It does seem to have a small element of accuracy, a lot of the purists do not like hatch-backs in touring cars, so the fact that audiences dwindled around the same time may indicate that people just can't get excited about hot hatches.

kmchow · 9 Nov 2005, 23:02 (Ref:1456782)

Let's hope Alfa does return in the '07 WTCC. Alfa Romeo (via GM distribution channels) is rumored to be offered for sale back in NA between '08/'09. Hopefully, that will lead to a NA round in the future as well!

Asa · 10 Nov 2005, 02:26 (Ref:1456888)

I suspect Alfa Romeo is just stepping back to see whether the DTM or the WTCC would offer them the best deal for 2007. Either series will become the stronger series should Alfa join up.

kmchow · 10 Nov 2005, 03:15 (Ref:1456906)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asa

I suspect Alfa Romeo is just stepping back to see whether the DTM or the WTCC would offer them the best deal for 2007. Either series will become the stronger series should Alfa join up.

Agreed Alfa's involvement is good for a series? But offer them the best deal?? You mean in terms of media coverage? But surely the WTCC offers the best deal since they'll visit the most (sales) markets? Is there a manufacturer entrance/participation fee to become a Works team? How much is it anyways?

**FIRE** · 21 Nov 2005, 19:19 (Ref:1466735)

Alfa Romeo entering Brera in 2006?

Article at Italiaracing.net (can someone do a proper translation?)
Same article translated with Babelfish

I thought 3-door cars, especially coupe's, were not allowed? (Last year Peugeot was allowed to enter 3-door 307 for part season)

Valker · 21 Nov 2005, 19:46 (Ref:1466764)

I still haven't seen any rules that say you can't have a 2 (or 3) door S2000 cars but according to this forum it's forbidden.

But why Brera instead of Alfa GT? IMO GT looks much more a touring car than Brera does. And doesn't it share many parts with 156 while Brera is completely new and need just as much development work as 159 would need?

**FIRE** · 21 Nov 2005, 20:23 (Ref:1466795)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valker

I still haven't seen any rules that say you can't have a 2 (or 3) door S2000 cars but according to this forum it's forbidden.

There's indeed nothing about doors in the technical reglement at the FIA WTCC website. But why did Peugeot build a 3-door version of the 307 and after that a 5-door version? Or is it a gentlemen's agreement between the manufacturers that take part in the WTCC?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valker

But why Brera instead of Alfa GT? IMO GT looks much more a touring car than Brera does. And doesn't it share many parts with 156 while Brera is completely new and need just as much development work as 159 would need?

The Brera looks indeed more like a GT and the Alfa GT more like a touring car coupe. I think they want to enter (if it will become reality, which I don't believe) the Brera because it's a new model.

Dani Filth · 21 Nov 2005, 21:35 (Ref:1466874)

there was 4 door minimum . maybe it changed ..
and wasn't it official that Alfa won't be in 2006 ???

Valker · 21 Nov 2005, 22:31 (Ref:1466946)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dani Filth

there was 4 door minimum . maybe it changed ..

And where was that minimum defined? I still can't find it from S2000 technical regulations so that must be some kind of gentlemens agreement, right?

I have asked this before but I still haven't got any kind of answear.

Dani Filth · 21 Nov 2005, 23:46 (Ref:1466995)

IIRC .. i've seen it written .. i'll check to see if i have an older version of the regulations ..

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