Jos Verstappen in Champcar? - Page 3

mitchie · 29 Jan 2005, 10:29 (Ref:1212517)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rime

Btw: Verstappen had a better performance in his first year in F1 than Räikkönen had in his second year.

How do you figure that?

If my memory is working, Jos scored 1 podium from I dont know how many starts (10?), whereas Kimi won the second race in his second year, scored a stack of podiums and was in title contention until the final round. Probably would've won the title if not for an engine failure at the Nurburgring.

I know that to compare Jos' first year and Kimi's 2nd year is unfair, but when in Rome...

minirda · 29 Jan 2005, 11:07 (Ref:1212529)

Better drivers out there? I can't think of (m)any. Give Jos a shot and (in the right car) he will impress.
You don't have to be a fan to come to such a conclusion.
F.e. he is way faster than DaMatta.

Rime · 29 Jan 2005, 12:23 (Ref:1212590)

@ mitchie

Jos did 2 podiums in 3 finished races....

mitchie · 29 Jan 2005, 12:44 (Ref:1212598)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rime

@ mitchie

Jos did 2 podiums in 3 finished races....

Apologies, forgot about Spa. That makes all the difference though and clearly indicates a better season than Raikkonen in 2003

Sure, he finished 3 races and all 3 in the points. However, from his 10 starts, 5 of them are recorded as DNF's caused by spins or crashes (from the verstappen site no less). You can twist facts around all you like to prove whatever you like, 100% of people who believe that can tell you so, but when he finished the races, he did alright

I will just say though, I have no problem with Verstappen. He would be an interesting person to have in the series and I thought his F1 performances werent all that bad.

Rime · 29 Jan 2005, 13:04 (Ref:1212602)

Fair enough...

steve nielsen · 29 Jan 2005, 15:30 (Ref:1212659)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchie

Sure, he finished 3 races and all 3 in the points. However, from his 10 starts, 5 of them are recorded as DNF's caused by spins or crashes (from the verstappen site no less).

one of them beeing caused by Irvine(Brazil) and one by Zanardi(who drove his Lotus into the back of Jos's Benetton at Monza puncturing his rear tire wich caused a spin)

BootsOntheSide · 29 Jan 2005, 15:47 (Ref:1212666)

And 3 of them caused by Jos. Benetton couldn't replace him with Herbert quickly enough.

minirda · 29 Jan 2005, 16:10 (Ref:1212678)

Even an experienced Nelson Piguet caused spins and crashes, and was replaced. You're talking about a WDC!
You are very biased, when it comes to Jos. I don't know what it is..... But you really are.

steve nielsen · 29 Jan 2005, 18:03 (Ref:1212717)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

And 3 of them caused by Jos. Benetton couldn't replace him with Herbert quickly enough.

Yes, Herbert, who managed only DNF's in that car.

Roninho · 29 Jan 2005, 21:06 (Ref:1212797)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchie

How do you figure that?

If my memory is working, Jos scored 1 podium from I dont know how many starts (10?), whereas Kimi won the second race in his second year, scored a stack of podiums and was in title contention until the final round. Probably would've won the title if not for an engine failure at the Nurburgring.

I know that to compare Jos' first year and Kimi's 2nd year is unfair, but when in Rome...

Didn't Kimi only win in his 3rd season? 1 year sauber (obviously no wins), year 1 mclaren no wins (in which he missed his first win after a mistake at the end of the french gp) and year 2 at mclaren wins and almost champ?

Roninho · 29 Jan 2005, 21:09 (Ref:1212800)

Anyway, it seems fair to say that Jos did NOT perform as expected from benetton. Otherwise I would not know why they would dump him for Herbert, and dropping him completely the next year and finance a drive at Simtek just to avoid legal action.

BootsOntheSide · 29 Jan 2005, 21:36 (Ref:1212817)

Herbert did two races at the end of 1994 - in one he broke down, and in the other he was one of several drivers to spin off on dry tyres in a sudden downpour. In 1995 he'd beaten Jos' total from 10 races within 4 races. And, Piquet wasn't replaced mid-season while he still had a contract, Jos was.

Rime · 29 Jan 2005, 21:43 (Ref:1212822)

What are we talking about? That was 1994... Now it's 2005, Jos will be testing next week for several Champcar teams and then makes his choice. I think Champcar suits Jos very well considering that he is one of the last real racers, a driver which you like or you don't like but if he takes part in a race something happens and most of the time his drivingstyle is great to watch. So let's quit this discussion about his (lack of) talent and concentrate on the future!

Dutch chap · 29 Jan 2005, 22:16 (Ref:1212833)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rime

So let's quit this discussion about his (lack of) talent and concentrate on the future!

mitchie · 30 Jan 2005, 03:57 (Ref:1212938)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roninho

Didn't Kimi only win in his 3rd season? 1 year sauber (obviously no wins), year 1 mclaren no wins (in which he missed his first win after a mistake at the end of the french gp) and year 2 at mclaren wins and almost champ?

Good point and well made

I could lie and said I was just testing people, but I botched that royal it seems

Anyhu, I look forward to seeing how Jos fares in his Champ Car test

BootsOntheSide · 30 Jan 2005, 12:49 (Ref:1213129)

Plenty of drivers have won quicker than Kimi in fact - Montoya, Damon Hill, Michael Schumacher and Jacques Villeneuve come to mind form recent years. All of those arguably had better cars than Kimi at the time though. But anyway.

If Jos gets a drive togehter, good luck to him, I just don't think it's a particualr benefit to the championship.

JohnSSC · 30 Jan 2005, 15:40 (Ref:1213183)

More of a benefit than another Nelson Phillipe, but what is broken here isn't going to be fixed by any one driver coming into or leaving the Series.

enemy-ace · 30 Jan 2005, 16:04 (Ref:1213198)

From my viewpoint he is a proven talent and would add some quality competition to the series. I think he could surprise quite a few people.
If I recall correctly he matched up quite well against Justin Wilson in their time together at Minardi.

BSchneiderFan · 31 Jan 2005, 20:14 (Ref:1214050)

Though he was vastly more experienced than Wilson; I think Justin has more speed in him than Verstappen.

BootsOntheSide · 31 Jan 2005, 21:26 (Ref:1214099)

Verstappen got all the enhancements and upgrades first - Justin even started the seaosn without power steering. Justin also had to adjust to the HANS device, which didn't suit him at all, and they weren't together for the full season - once Justin left for Jaguar he was 6-5 down in qualifying (admittedly including one race where Jos' car failed on his lap), and I'm sure he'd've overhauled that in the last 5 races.

Rime · 31 Jan 2005, 21:44 (Ref:1214116)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Verstappen got all the enhancements and upgrades first - Justin even started the seaosn without power steering. Justin also had to adjust to the HANS device, which didn't suit him at all, and they weren't together for the full season - once Justin left for Jaguar he was 6-5 down in qualifying (admittedly including one race where Jos' car failed on his lap), and I'm sure he'd've overhauled that in the last 5 races.

Sorry to correct you but saturday qualifying was 6-4 for Jos including a crash in Imola and a carfailure in Austria. Friday qualifying (all cars with empty tanks and new tyres) 10-1 for Jos. Both started the season without powersteering and all drivers had to adjust to the HANS device.... Let's just wait and see, I think Jos might surprise a few in a Champcar (but thats just my opinion).

BootsOntheSide · 31 Jan 2005, 22:02 (Ref:1214131)

6-5 if you count Austria (where Jos' car failed), 6-4 if you don't. Same difference. And whose fault was Jos' crash at Imola? By Friday lunchtime Justin had virtually no experience of the tracks, or of low-fuel fresh-tyre running, so the fact that Jos was faster in those is unsurprising and meaningless. The HANS device was harder for Justin due to his height and body-shape, and I know Jos had power-steering much sooner than Wilson, as well as first-call on every other upgrade as it came.

Dutch chap · 31 Jan 2005, 23:05 (Ref:1214171)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

.... and I know Jos had power-steering much sooner than Wilson, as well as first-call on every other upgrade as it came.

So you know? As a fact? How? Because you're a Minardi engineer? Or because you read magazines?

BSchneiderFan · 31 Jan 2005, 23:17 (Ref:1214185)

I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that Verstappen's Minardi had power steering a few races before Wilson's? I'm not pointing the finger, Paul Stoddart has to husband limited resources and Verstappen was much the more experienced driver.

Rime · 31 Jan 2005, 23:23 (Ref:1214191)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

6-5 if you count Austria (where Jos' car failed), 6-4 if you don't. Same difference.

I hate it to bother you again but how can it be 6-5 if Minardi only qualified in 10 Gp's on saturday with Verstappen/Wilson (remember Melbourne)? Including Austria and San Marino it was 6-4 for Jos if you don't count Austria it was 6-3 for Jos. But who cares, you don't get any points for qualifying in F1....

Didn't Justin called Verstappen one of the most underestimated drivers in F1 and didn't Salo named Jos as his fastest teammate ever? That counts more to me then some qualifying figures....

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