Everyday Classic

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by ss_collins
A car that is so totally forgettable and so amazingly unimportant and generally dull should never become a classic, what next the Vectra!!!? Sorry I think not. Even an 83 Granada has more classic-ness.

I agree about the Vectra but you miss a big point. The Mondeo is truly a world class car. The dynamic "chassis" and the level of comfort provided by even the most basic model is certainly a good mark in its favour. The Vectra tried to follow and as far as I can tell still doesn't achieve what the Ford has.

Not a classic as yet but it deserves respect.

The Golf was another car to break a mould.

[Richy_Rich]

Nobody's mentioned Triumphs...They're ace.

I had a spitfire for 3 years as a 'daily driver' and it was fine, always managed to get home in it. (it's now a race car)

And we also have a TR2 which, although it doesn't get used daily, is dead reliable due to it's tractor engine, comfortable and fast (100 mph+) It also hardly uses any fuel...

I'd reccomend a classic car as a daily driver to anyone, most of them have a cheap source of ready available parts, many require no road tax (pre '72), easy to service and maintain yourself and more fun to drive than any modern car.

[DAVID PATERSON]

A friend of mine loves Triumphs, I asked him if there was ever a more inappropriately named car. He wasn't amused.

[Amaroo Park]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
I agree about the Vectra but you miss a big point. The Mondeo is truly a world class car. The dynamic "chassis" and the level of comfort provided by even the most basic model is certainly a good mark in its favour. The Vectra tried to follow and as far as I can tell still doesn't achieve what the Ford has.

Not a classic as yet but it deserves respect.

The Golf was another car to break a mould.

The Mondeos over here have a dreadful reputation Ford dealers couldn't even give them away. But the Vectra has been extremly popular and the y have sold out of the current batch

[ss_collins]

Ok so even a vectra has more claim to be a classic than a mondy, The Golf broke the mould made another one and broke it again, It will be a classic. The Vectra and the Mondy never will, especially if something as interesting as an Austin princess isn't a classic. Triumphs are classics.

[Bluebottle]

Originally posted by Richy_Rich
Nobody's mentioned Triumphs...They're ace.

Me!! I did! -back on page two!!

[Bluebottle]

We've got a Vincent Hurricane which is a Spit with a glassfibre body. It was in daily use until 7 years ago- now it gets to live in a garage and only comes out for good long runs (such as Le Mans Classic- that was a good very long run!!) and it gets to dring nice proper leadded petrol!
It dosn't get taken off the road for the winter, just in case we fancy a cold blast through the snowy landscape (we've got a hood, but I can't remember when I last used it..)

[zefarelly]

I'd agree that if I go out on site, and travel 100's of miles a new (hire or company) car is more practical, less tiring and more economic, but for the standard 30 miles trip, with a multiple choice on country lanes in either direction, the Cortina wins hands down

also, free tax, sub £200 PA insurance with unlimited milage for two cars, fully comp including breakdown recovery, and sub £50 for a full service is hard to beat.

[ss_collins]

I'd agree that if I go out on site, and travel 100's of miles a new (hire or company) car is more practical, less tiring and more economic, but for the standard 30 miles trip, with a multiple choice on country lanes in either direction, the Cortina wins hands down

and that is the difference between a classic and a nothing car.

[aerog]

I drive a 1952 MGTD replica (factory built in 1975) as a "daily driver" when the weather is right (not too hot or cold, or in really heavy rain). Usually that means it's on the road pretty solidly for several months a year. For Sunday drives and shows I drive an MGB (insurance dictates I drive it only as a show car or to club events, I'm looking for another MG as a daily driver):

[Bluebottle]

We saw an MG replica very similar to yours in Naples Fl last March- I think the one we saw had VW indicator lights on the wings but apart from that it was the same. How many of them do you know of?

[aerog]

Originally posted by Bluebottle
We saw an MG replica very similar to yours in Naples Fl last March- I think the one we saw had VW indicator lights on the wings but apart from that it was the same. How many of them do you know of?

There are bunches around. The company that made this one started off in 1975 here in Daytona, everything was locally produced. The replica isn't perfect, but the dimensions are nearly the same as a 'TD with a lot of original MG hardware and Lucas lights. In the early '80s they sold the rights to the car to another company, who redesigned parts of the car and made it nearly a perfect replica - and sold quite a few cars both as fully built and kit cars.

By the way, this car is nearly pure 1969 VW Type-1 (Beetle). The gear-shift was moved back, the steering column extended, and an additional pushrod added to the brake master-cylinder to accomodate the seat placement.

[alfasud]

The Golf a classic?????

[I seem to remember a similar statement in the Alfa Romeo digest, so I might steal a few comments from there too]

I'd almost tend to put the Golf in the same category as the Mondeo and Vectra..... VW simply followed the trend. What trend you ask? If you look at most affordable small modern cars - not luxury cars or sports cars, what do they have in common???

Front Wheel Drive.
Transverse mounted 4 stroke engine.
gearbox mounted end-on (NOT gearbox-in-sump like a Mini).
Overhead camshaft in an alloy cylinder head driven by a toothed belt.

The Fiat 127 and 128 designs (128 was introduced in 1969) had all these things and proved the concept that the others followed. What did the later cars such as the Golf have that the 127/128 didn't? Better build quality maybe, more distribution channels in more countries, but there was nothing new in the basic design.

The Golf, Mondeo, Vectra etc are simply an update of the Fiat 127/128 design concept..... there's a lot of refinement and clever marketing to make you think there have been big advances since 1969, but there haven't.

The Fiat 127/128 are classics in the way the others will never be.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Alfa, what you say is spot on, but you're missing one important point. The VW Golf was the first to put all of the those features together in something big enough to actually be called, a car. Their miniscule dimensions prevented the Fiat 128, from being a big seller or even being taken seriuosly by car enthusiats and buyers alike. The golf had everything the Fiat had, plus it was practical and had reasonable performance.

[alfasud]

Hmmmm, so the Mk 1 Golf gets to be a classic by virtue of being a bit "larger" than a 127/128.

I'm not sure about the Fiat lacking in performance, a friend had a 1300cc 128 and found plenty of perfomance if you were willing to rev the engine.

Of course, VW eventually introduced the GTI with a lot more performance, and maybe that one could be called a classic.

[Peter Mallett]

Hmm,

Whilst I agree with you in general, I still believe that unless you've actually driven a Mondeo you won't appreciate what Ford did. For a car of it's size it handles and performs extremely well. And as with all Fords it can be made to go much better with little cash outlay.

The Golf GTi was a great leap forward when it was introduced in 1976(?). I don't think you could put the Fiats in the same bracket. But in terms of concept then there's little difference. But that's my point. A good idea can be lost in its execution.

[alfasud]

Well the Mondeo would have to be light years ahead of the company Vectra that I drive day to day.

There's a lot of people who say how much improved dynamics modern FWD cars have, but if you talk to someone who owned one of the original 1.2 or 1.3 Alfasud's in say 1972-1976 (the later ones were a wee bit softer), I'm not sure they'd agree.

Car's like 128 and the Alfasud were a great leap forward if you compare them to the junk that Ford were producing at the time - I used to drive a 1972 Escort, my next car was an Alfasud and a friend had the 128. There was simply no comparison.

[Peter Mallett]

You drive a Vectra? Poor you.

[ss_collins]

thing about alfas its that living in england as i do they last about a day before collapsing into a pile of iron oxide.
I drove a mondy a few times but every time I'd wake up on the hard shoulder fast asleep. COS IT WAS SOO DULL.

[zefarelly]

I prefered the Sierra to the Mondeo at all the others . . . .at least they drove the right wheels

Im not a BMW fan at all, but I thought their advert with the diver with flippers on his hands was excellent, as was the speedboat with the outboard hanging of the front

far too much power assistance and numbing or the driving senses in new cars

grumble grumble

[Peter Mallett]

The Sierra Cosworth. Yeees.

But (and I do stand to be corrected) there is a famous story about a racing driver who was being coached in a Mondeo. He is quoted as saying something like "I always thought these were front wheel drive". And that is my point about them. They really do handle well. At least mine does.

[zefarelly]

Ive had so many 'turtles heads' in FWD cars . . . .probably due to my lack of experience and confidence driving them, but in the wet, they just wont go round corners!

oversteer on the other hand is a pleasant/fun handling charecteristic

even if you do end up in the middle of the roundabout facing the wrong way occaisionally

[ss_collins]

its possible to get a front wheel drive car to oversteer, even in the wet. I've done it!

[alfasud]

Originally posted by ss_collins
its possible to get a front wheel drive car to oversteer, even in the wet. I've done it!

Agreed, and you need to deal with it slightly differently than RWD power induced oversteer!!!

Most standard FWD cars are setup to understeer, but some, when at the limit (Alfasud, Peugeot 205, 106, 206, 306....), particulaly when on a trailing throttle, become more neutral and tend towards oversteer. The rear ends of these cars have quite reasonable roll resistance and also tend to lift the rear inside wheel.

http://autozine.kyul.net/Car_Photo/Peugeot/106_S16.jpg

For racing the tendency is to make the rear quite stiff indeed (e.g. rear anti roll bar) so that the car can get the power down in tight corners without spinning the inside front wheel. I'm sure if you drove a modern FWD SuperProduction car you would be able to find oversteer without too much trouble at all!!!

[ss_collins]

having spun my golf a few times I ccan tell you that on a trailing throttle often the rear wheel lifts or you get a rather unexpected imperssion of a pendulum, coram at lydden is the perfect palce to instigate this misbehaviour