[WTCC] 2017 WTCC News & Rumours

[Rubio]

I also don't understand who would participate in this championship since manufacturers have their own programmes in DTM and Super GT. What the independents are going to do? What is the reason to enter cars which cost about 1 mln each in times when motorsport becmoes extremely expensive?

Too much questions and now it seems to be a crazy rumour. Again, hope it will never materialize

[Racing Harz]

Class 1 2019?
http://www.touringcartimes.com/2016/...hin-two-years/

[Mark0994]

What will that be. Modern 1996 International Touring Car Championship?
Great cars, world best drivers and coverage and costs destroyed it.

[pimmy]

This is such a stupid idea, which I suppose makes it perfect for WTCC.

They've gone from S2000 cars which were reasonably priced, if unspectacular. Then 1.6T engines were introduced, which increased costs. Then TC1 cars came in, with another cost increase. And now they're looking at even more expensive cars!

These people don't have a clue what they're doing. DTM is looking at a 25% decrease in field size next year because MANUFACTURERS can't afford it, let alone privateers, and Super GT hasn't attracted an entry of 20 cars in its top class for God knows how long. And to top it off, these cars aren't even touring cars.

Although, given how long ago Class One was proposed and the fact that it still doesn't exist, I have my doubts as to whether this will actually happen. I hope it doesn't.

[Metzo]

agree with pimmy.

WTCC with class 1 cars would also be the end of DTM, or does it makes sense for teams to enter those expensive cars in a national series if a world championship are using the same cars?

doesn't make sense for either the DTM or the WTCC.

[Rubio]

"We expect TC1 to stay for at least 10 years" (c)

Well..

All can I say is that I'm sure that these news mean
a) There no more manufacturers interested in building TC1 cars = no new factory teams
b) Interest in the championship must be decreasing, and it seems that Eurosport (probably Discovery) is not satisfied with WTCC's performance, and want to do something radical

Ok, so this move has some benefits - such fast cars will always attract more global fans (like F1 lovers) than classic touring cars. It will probably atract more premium brands and significantly raise the level of the championship. After all, it's always going to be more attractive to watch BMW-Lexus battle rather than Honda-Lada one.

BUT. There are so many potential problems
a) These are not touring cars. Say goodbye to good racing and welcome DTM.
b) Cost. As pimmy said German manufacturers want to decrease costs. And global championship means more travelling costs, cars won't become cheaper.
c) Who is going to participate? Not a single privateer will afford spending so much money so it only depends on the manufacturers. And why should Marcedes-Audi-BMW leave DTM to participate in a world championship - do they have budget for that? It will work only if DTM and SuperGT are now working with FIA and Eurosport on this matter because such championship might mean death to DTM and SuperGT (or vice versa)
For example, 4 works cars from 6 manufacturers would work pretty fine. But it's not realistic
d) What is going to happen to current manufaturers? I just imagine how impressed is Volvo with these news. Lada will never build a Class 1 car, I think Volvo won't do it either.

All in all, all of sudden death of WTCC in the near future is becoming a reality.

[BtccLee]

Originally Posted by Rubio

"We expect TC1 to stay for at least 10 years" (c)

Well..

All can I say is that I'm sure that these news mean
a) There no more manufacturers interested in building TC1 cars = no new factory teams
b) Interest in the championship must be decreasing, and it seems that Eurosport (probably Discovery) is not satisfied with WTCC's performance, and want to do something radical

Ok, so this move has some benefits - such fast cars will always attract more global fans (like F1 lovers) than classic touring cars. It will probably atract more premium brands and significantly raise the level of the championship. After all, it's always going to be more attractive to watch BMW-Lexus battle rather than Honda-Lada one.

BUT. There are so many potential problems
a) These are not touring cars. Say goodbye to good racing and welcome DTM.
b) Cost. As pimmy said German manufacturers want to decrease costs. And global championship means more travelling costs, cars won't become cheaper.
c) Who is going to participate? Not a single privateer will afford spending so much money so it only depends on the manufacturers. And why should Marcedes-Audi-BMW leave DTM to participate in a world championship - do they have budget for that? It will work only if DTM and SuperGT are now working with FIA and Eurosport on this matter because such championship might mean death to DTM and SuperGT (or vice versa)
For example, 4 works cars from 6 manufacturers would work pretty fine. But it's not realistic
d) What is going to happen to current manufaturers? I just imagine how impressed is Volvo with these news. Lada will never build a Class 1 car, I think Volvo won't do it either.

All in all, all of sudden death of WTCC in the near future is becoming a reality.

I'd argue that this has been on the cards for a short while. Pride comes before a fall, and I fear that a refusal to embrace TCR (with some minor mods perhaps) could be forcing the WTCC into this corner.

[Tarzaan]

In a better world WTCC cars should looks like the Superbikes of the the touring car racing.

In the superbike wm you can enter as a private team even with a privately upgraded superstock bike.

In a WTCC teams also should enter with an upgraded TCR cars or privately build cars.

[MagVanisher]

As much as I would like Class One cars in WTCC, it'll be very unrealistic to implement it.

After all, DTM shoved their rulebook to Super GT in the first place, and now WTCC wants to adopt it? I don't think it'll happen, much like how GT500 cars couldn't race in Le Mans.

[GM10]

IMHO it would be better if FIA upgrades TCN-1 cars to WTCC. NGTC cars have low cost and could be developed as manufacturers, with a great number of makes that can participate.

Class One is the death of world touring cars. Lotti has kicked FIA's ass.

[S griffin]

I too think WTCC should go with the flow and allow TCR cars in, otherwise the series could just be on the way out

[iceman-1987]

CLASS 1 it's not at all solution. if big manufacture like mercedes audi and bmw took time and keep posticipating this solution how can ribeiro think to convince volvo (who just entered in wtcc with tc1 rules), honda (who just confirm its partecipation year by year) and lada (who has the lowest bufget between all manufacture) to adopt that regulament.

imho the best solution would be only one: come back to S2000 class! ok you can call it in another way and make some little change but the car should come back to that solution which is also close to actual TCR.

Second step would be "steal" the idea of Lotti and talk also with manufacture who are not in wtcc (but that could be in future) to allow indipendent team to use one of their model. In this way indipendent driver and team wouldn't be obliged to use only the current model of wtcc cars.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

As much as I would like Class One cars in WTCC, it'll be very unrealistic to implement it.

After all, DTM shoved their rulebook to Super GT in the first place, and now WTCC wants to adopt it? I don't think it'll happen, much like how GT500 cars couldn't race in Le Mans.

I think it can only work - besides full season DTM and SuperGT - if WTCC has only 3 or 4 rounds: Germany, Japan, Middle East and maybe USA.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Rubio

"We expect TC1 to stay for at least 10 years" (c)

Well..

All can I say is that I'm sure that these news mean
a) There no more manufacturers interested in building TC1 cars = no new factory teams
b) Interest in the championship must be decreasing, and it seems that Eurosport (probably Discovery) is not satisfied with WTCC's performance, and want to do something radical

Ok, so this move has some benefits - such fast cars will always attract more global fans (like F1 lovers) than classic touring cars. It will probably atract more premium brands and significantly raise the level of the championship. After all, it's always going to be more attractive to watch BMW-Lexus battle rather than Honda-Lada one.

BUT. There are so many potential problems
a) These are not touring cars. Say goodbye to good racing and welcome DTM.
b) Cost. As pimmy said German manufacturers want to decrease costs. And global championship means more travelling costs, cars won't become cheaper.
c) Who is going to participate? Not a single privateer will afford spending so much money so it only depends on the manufacturers. And why should Marcedes-Audi-BMW leave DTM to participate in a world championship - do they have budget for that? It will work only if DTM and SuperGT are now working with FIA and Eurosport on this matter because such championship might mean death to DTM and SuperGT (or vice versa)
For example, 4 works cars from 6 manufacturers would work pretty fine. But it's not realistic
d) What is going to happen to current manufaturers? I just imagine how impressed is Volvo with these news. Lada will never build a Class 1 car, I think Volvo won't do it either.

All in all, all of sudden death of WTCC in the near future is becoming a reality.

The crap racing in DTM has nothing to do with the cars.

SGT uses the same cars and aero regs(well did, until 2017), and the racing was fantastic.

[Fechna]

Wtcc and TCR should merge, while using pure TCR cars and allowing manufacturers to come in and blow their money into top drivers.

A Wtcc with brilliant racing, a 30 car grid and 6+ different brands, privateers fighting works teams, cars being cheap and just as spectacular as S2000. That would be gold. Until then I'll stay with TCR International Series.

[redshoes]

Isn't the point of TCR that it is part of a ladder system with WTCC at the top and TCR a couple of rungs lower down. Suggesting WTCC and TCR merge is like suggesting F1 merges with GP3.

[Bramzel]

Indeed.

[Fechna]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Isn't the point of TCR that it is part of a ladder system with WTCC at the top and TCR a couple of rungs lower down. Suggesting WTCC and TCR merge is like suggesting F1 merges with GP3.

I disagree. Of course Lotti branded it at first as the GT3 of Touringcars, but if you take a look at it, you´ll see that TCR is faster then the formula the top tier of touringcars used for a decade. Only TC1 changed that. At at least I think TC1 was a huge mistake that will kill the championship at some point, if the WTCC changes the rules. DTM is a travesty anyways, and it is for a decade now.

If WTCC is equivalent to F1, and TCR is equivalent to GP3, then there is no legit international GP2 equivalent. And if F1 would be struggeling to get 14+ cars on track, there sure would think about how to make the F1 more "GP3ish".

There is no such thing as a "ladder" in Touringcars so far. Only the one make series around the world could qualify for a junior class. Otherwise any TC series are just as any other when you look at the age of the grid or potential drivers changing to a higher class.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Fechna

I disagree. Of course Lotti branded it at first as the GT3 of Touringcars, but if you take a look at it, you´ll see that TCR is faster then the formula the top tier of touringcars used for a decade.

Original branding was as TC3, so next level down from TC1 - TC2. In terms of levels it was more the spec of the cars rather that the championship itself.

When the FIA formally adopted TCN1 and TCN2, although they didn't talk about it as a ladder, they did refer to having a structure below WTCC.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make about TCR being faster that a previous set of WTCC regs. GT3 cars are now at a similar level of performance to GT1 cars from 5 years ago, despite being originally a couple of steps down. It happens.

[Fechna]

Easy: TCR is not to TC1 what GP3 is to F1. There is a long history of downsizing in Touringcars (BTCC 2001, ETCC in 2002, etc.). TCR is fast enough for a world championship. Therefore the Wtcc using Tcr cars when TC1 crashes (and it will) is not at all like driving F1 with Gp3 spec cars. This analogy just doesn't fit at all. It would be just like ETCC in 2002.

[thlbtcc]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Isn't the point of TCR that it is part of a ladder system with WTCC at the top and TCR a couple of rungs lower down. Suggesting WTCC and TCR merge is like suggesting F1 merges with GP3.

Good point.

[Mark0994]

TCR cars are not so much faster than old WTCC cars even if they have 50hp more
2005 Augusto Farfus pole for Spa was 2:33.158
2016 Dušan Borković pole for Spa was 2:33.065
Maybe it's about setup, suspensions or tyres
Also for Macau 2015 Huff was only 0.190 faster than Priaulx in 2005.
Not so big difference

[Bramzel]

TCR is what WTCC used to be. WTCC had bigger ambitions though, creating the space TCR takes now. WTCC wants to be at that higher level, more like DTM. To be honest I also think it's also where the manufacturers want to be, with more spectacular cars with bigger bodykits and bigger wings. Just look at WRC.

WTCC is a manufacturers championship, TCR a privateers championship. WTCC's problem though is that it can't seem to attract enough manufacturers... From that point of view the ruleset merger with DTM and SuperGT perhaps wouldn't be so strange.

[Fechna]

The question is: What is more important in touringcar racing: a: High performance & tech cars OR b: big grid sizes and competitive private teams and drivers. Both is at this time not in the cards. If you want A, stay TC1 or move to Class One. If you want B, TCR is the only answer in sight considering the fact that NGTC is way more expensive then TCR while not much superior in speed or racing quality.

[Bramzel]

Correct. WTCC wants A, while TCR wants B. Which one the bigger success is will depend on what you measure