Fatality in ARCA

[Burnsieold]

Hey Joe, I SAW him on my TV say "women do not belong in racing". Yes, those words. Its not something I read somewhere, I saw it. I TALKED to his sponsors PERSONALLY. I know what they told me, not some reporter, ME on the phone. There is another member here also that talked with them personally. I SAW the words come out of his mouth after the **** he pulled where he said "yes that's what he believed, and he stood by what he did" then got all in a hissy fit when he was disqualified for his win due to illegal fuel. I don't blame Deborah for not wanting to come back. If she would of talked to Dale Jr., some of this could of been avoided. He has spoken out very harshly against the drivers at the Fairgrounds, anything but fair there as he says. By the way, did Dale Jr. ever race in the Hills Brothers series? What about Winston West?

[muggle not]

Burnsie.....Some people just do not believe that women belong in racing. You may as well to change their opinion. You are correct that Mark Day has admitted saying that women do not belong in racing and that IS SEXIST. Obviously, there are others that feel the same as Day.

[Joe Fan]

Originally posted by Burnsie
Hey Joe, I SAW him on my TV say "women do not belong in racing". Yes, those words. Its not something I read somewhere, I saw it.

Burnsie, then why hasn't Day's quote been put into print? What TV channel was this on? I would be surprised that such a public and controversial comment wouldn't result in someone writing about it.

The only thing I have found along these lines is something that Tennessean newspaper writer Larry Woody wrote:

Day has questioned the ability of women to compete in stock car racing.

But this is not an exact quote from Day because of the lack of quotation marks and we don't know what he meant by this if it is in fact true. Racing is a dangerous sport. In comparison, many believe that women shouldn't be involved in front line duty or hand-to-hand combat during a war? Are all of these attitudes necessarily based upon sexism? Some women don't think women should be involved in such or racing for that matter.

However, getting back to Day, Woody later wrote about the disqualification ordeal:

Day said the controversy last weekend "has been blown out of proportion by the media," and insisted that it's "not a man-versus-woman thing." (Taken from: http://www.tennessean.com/sports/mot...nt_ID=20030277

The real root of the problem was an incident several months before this disqualification ordeal, where Renshaw tried to make a pass on Day and it ended up in both of them crashing. Words were exchanged in the pits. Day accused Renshaw of not being able to control her car. Renshaw said that Day "was busier looking at her rather than the drivers in front of him."--which could be construed as a sexist, arrogant comment since Renshaw is an attractive woman. (http://espn.go.com/rpm/2002/0724/1409568.html)

However, here is an excerpt before this incident occurred:

Day says that Renshaw's imminent rise is based solely on her funding, but that at some point she might prove that she is as good as anyone. "Obviously her family has money, and that's why she's moving up," he says. "But she might go up there and open eyes at the right time and it wouldn't have anything to do with her daddy's money." (Taken from: http://www.nashvillescene.com/cgi-bi...ws:Cover_Story)

If he were sexist and questioned the ability of women to compete in racing, would he make such comments? Seems to me as if it is more a matter or envy.

Even after this incident, this was written:

Nearly two months after the crash, Day, who is well respected in the racing community, has a different take on Renshaw. "For what experience she has got, she's doing a fine job," he says. "I think early in the year she was overwhelmed with all the media attention she was getting, but now I think she has calmed down a little bit."

He later adds, "I still don't totally trust her as far as racing with her. There have been some times since the crash where I have been the aggressor and had to pass her and we haven't had a problem. But if there is a situation where she is the aggressor, I would allow her to go on by unless it's in the late stages of a race." (Taken from: http://www.nashvillescene.com/cgi-bi...ws:Cover_Story

Regarding the organization by Day and others to protest her engine, I think it was wrong but this is nothing unusual in racing. As Jeff Gordon said, "Go ask my dad about it. We were protested all the time. I remember being 7 years old and being protested in a race where we weren't even running for money." (quote taken from: http://www.news-journalonline.com/2002/Jul/25/CIRX1.htm)

And you can't protest an engine before the race as the tear down would take too long.

Before the disqualification, in this article it stated:

Earlier this year, another driver was awarded the pole position over her even though he failed to abide by one of the rules of the track. When she heard about that, Renshaw cut off a conversation with a reporter and immediately stormed off to find out why he seemed to be receiving preferential treatment. (Taken from: http://www.nashvillescene.com/cgi-bi...ws:Cover_Story)

With her having a business degree and someone who seems to be highly competitive that also blew the horn on minor rule abidement on a driver as noted above, it appears to me that Renshaw help fuel some of this as it wasn't just Mark Day who was involved in the disqualification ordeal. Read this email from Day's sponsor:

"Mark did not have a penny of the $3,600.00 that was raised to protest the two cars, but it was given by EVERY driver at the track sat night. Why are you blaming just Mark, why not blame all of them. One who gave as much as $1.000.00, several who gave from $100.00 to $700.00 to look at the 54 car and the 12 car, so until you know the whole story and talk to Mark in person don't be blaming just him. Include the other 15 drivers that gave the money and did not have the balls to do what they wanted but put all the responsibility on Mark." (Taken from: http://www.pitpassmagazine.com/fairgrounds.html)

I have combed the Internet extensively to find any sexist quotes from Day. I haven't been able to find any even though I have found plenty of articles on the disqualification incident. Yet, the media jumped all over Day, stating that he was a sexist, a male chauvinist pig, and even saying that "they like them barefoot and pregnant in Nashville." Many others jumped to the same conclusion. I could almost hear the banjos from Deliverance playing in the background when I read some of these articles.

I am not condoing what Day did and I think what he did was chickensh*t but it appears to me that way too many people went overboard and to the extreme with their judgements about Day's character and his attitudes about women drivers. Day was a jerk for what he did but since it involved a woman driver, everyone jumped to the conclusion that he was a sexist jerk with what appears to be hearsay evidence of sexist comments from him (as far as I have been able to find) and comments from Renshaw, "Maybe he just has trouble believing that a woman driver can be successful," and "Mark resents a woman being on the track and he's jealous of some of the good fortune I've had."

The bottom line here will the next male driver(s) who protests a woman's car be accused of being sexist or a male chauvinist pig? Will it be taboo for a male driver to be critical of a woman driver's driving ability?

[jetsetter]

On the accident front(without getting into the sexism debate) correct me if i'm wrong but in oval racing don't the competitors race back to the finish line once a caution comes out & if so this could be part of the problem.

[Joe Fan]

Originally posted by jetsetter
On the accident front(without getting into the sexism debate) correct me if i'm wrong but in oval racing don't the competitors race back to the finish line once a caution comes out & if so this could be part of the problem.

The accident occurred in practice.

However, regarding racing back to the caution, there is a "gentleman's agreement" (hey that wording is antiquated and needs to be changed) that those on the lead lap do not race or pass others under yellow. However, those a lap down do race back to the finish line if they might be able to get their lap back.

[Joe Fan]

Originally posted by Burnsie
By the way, did Dale Jr. ever race in the Hills Brothers series? What about Winston West?

Dale Jr.'s first Busch Grand National start was at the half-mile Myrtle Beach Speedway in 1996. He had been racing for five years by that point, had finished fourth in the driver's standings in Late Models at Myrtle Beach in 1995 and finished second in 1996. He did plenty of testing in 1997, then raced on his first big track at the 1.25 mile Gateway track in St. Louis in 1997. He also had one of the greatest stock car drivers of all-time as his personal instructor.

On the other hand, Renshaw was 16th in the Late Model driver point standings last year at the 1/2 mile Nashville Speedway. The year before, she competed in some races at this track but did not finish in the top 20 in points. After leading the point standings for one week this year in Late Models at that track, she gets booted to ARCA to compete on the big tracks like 1.5-mile Kentucky Speedway, 2.5-mile Pocono, 2.66-mile Talladega, 1.5-mile Lowes, etc.

When Jr. raced in Busch back in 1996, the cars had significantly less horsepower than they do now (around 600 horsepower compared to 750 for Cup) and have 100 pounds less weight and shorter wheelbases compared to Cup cars. As of last year, the Busch engine regs were made to be indentical to Winston Cup to help facilitate the learning curve for Busch drivers in their transition to Cup. The ARCA cars are essentially the same as Winston Cup cars with a few modifications and have roughly the same horsepower, as evidenced by their pole speeds at that the same track.

Renshaw may have proven enough to compete at smaller tracks in ARCA but she should have raced in a series like All-Pro this year where she would get a steady diet of small tracks with plus a few races at 1 & 1 1/2-mile tracks like Kentucky or Nashville Superspeedway in smaller horsepower cars. Racing from a 2800lb Late Model car that produces up to 550 horsepower on 1/2 mile tracks against wannabe stock car drivers compared to racing a 3600lb ARCA car producing about 200 more horsepower on 1.5 -2.5 mile tracks against much more experienced drivers is too steep a jump. I wouldn't try to make that jump if I were a making a career in stock car racing and very few ever try to.

[jetsetter]

Originally posted by Joe Fan
The accident occurred in practice.

However, regarding racing back to the caution, there is a "gentleman's agreement" (hey that wording is antiquated and needs to be changed) that those on the lead lap do not race or pass others under yellow. However, those a lap down do race back to the finish line if they might be able to get their lap back.

Thanks for clearing that up for me as being a relative newcomer to the world of Nascar i wasn't sure if i was correct on that point. As far as the accident happening in practice that put's a different perspective on things, does anyone know when they're going to have an official inquiry in to the accident to either decide that someone is to blame or find it was just an accident with noone having a case to answer.

[Roselady3]

Blame the spotter.

A driver is only as good as the spotter who tells Him/Her what is happening on the track.