[BTCC] BTCC 2021

[Adam43]

Obviously depends if it is just a model year, a facelift or a new generation. Seamless gaps in sales can be achieved by building up stock before new generation production starts. I’ve seen quick turn around and not so quick. New and old generations are practically never produced in the same factory at the same time. Of course globally there may be one factory building the old one longer than a sister factory in another continent, but it isn’t normal for supply to mean that a market receives the same car from more than one continent, although it does happen.

[crmalcolm]

Usually, when a car production line retools for a new model, it is closed for a 3-4 month period.
Obviously this varies, but car manufacturers rarely waste money on having capacity to take on a new model in a plant.
If ellesmere port had the capacity to build two models simultaneously, then it's too big.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Usually, when a car production line retools for a new model, it is closed for a 3-4 month period.
Obviously this varies, but car manufacturers rarely waste money on having capacity to take on a new model in a plant.
If ellesmere port had the capacity to build two models simultaneously, then it's too big.

I have worked for a car manufacturer for 41 years and not once has it had to close a factory for longer than it's normal 3 week summer shutdown.
A car factory that only builds one model is uneconomical.

[Adam43]

I do too and they have for new models/generations. Clearly there is a range of situations.

But hey here you are again in a tedious argument with the same people. We could have an interesting discussion or we could just desperately want to be right about everything on the Internet. This could be interesting as there are different examples, but it can’t be because you’re involved.

Perhaps park this one and move on.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

Because we don't buy (or company car lease) saloons apart from the 3 Series, C Class etc. The sectors below are all hatchback dominated. Europe is a different kettle of fish.

This isn’t something I’ve ever understood. What’s so different about Europe which means they still buy saloons?

[Adam43]

It is more of a thing in the US too - certaintly no wagons! But both are well on the way to being dominated by SUVs of all sizes. Of course US also has pick-ups.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I do too and they have for new models/generations. Clearly there is a range of situations.

But hey here you are again in a tedious argument with the same people. We could have an interesting discussion or we could just desperately want to be right about everything on the Internet. This could be interesting as there are different examples, but it can’t be because you’re involved.

Perhaps park this one and move on.

Clearly explain what they do with the employees for 3 to 4 months each time they have a model change or upgrade. I have never heard anything so ludicrous.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by RS67

Clearly explain what they do with the employees for 3 to 4 months each time they have a model change or upgrade. I have never heard anything so ludicrous.

http://www.autointell.com/european_companies/BMW/mini/oxford-plant/BMW-plant-oxford.htm

[crmalcolm]

Looking ahead for the BTCC - a few of the models on the grid are due for replacement or update in 2022.
With the introduction of hybrid at the same team, alongside the current season challenges, my expectation is that the grid will be fairly static for 2021 in terms of cars, but could get quite a big shake up in 2022.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by antnee

If your typical journeys suit it, plug-in hybrids can be a absolute winner. Mine does over 40 miles on a charge. In the last 3 weeks I have done 315 miles, of which only 20 were on petrol power. When I am back to working in the office, my commuting costs will drop from £7/day to £1/day.

My journeys in the hybrid tend to be longish a road, dual carriageway stuff - no town or city driving - hence my feeling that by dragging around all the unproductive weight is not idea. I am buying a 1.4L turbo petrol with stop start, I reckon I will get more or less the same MPG as I am getting with the hybrid and the stop start will do a similar thing to the hybrid when stopped a traffic lights, junctions.

Time will tell!

[Moneyseeker]

The new Citroen C4 looks great and in the coupe hatchback style would probably make a good BTCC car for 2022. Would be worth a pitch to Citroen, if I were PMR I would send JP down to Citroen UK to work his magic - all part of the same family as Vauxhall now so not treading on any toes.

PMR are probably one of the better placed to do this as they can present it as a JV with PMR parent company and also tie in the whole dealer team/support thing.

The days of rocking up at a car maker and asking for a million quid per year for 3 years to run a team for 'them' are not around, but if the team puts some of their investment in and can show how the ROI can be achieved, added dealer and customer engagement, social media presence, etc - you can put a good marketing case to a manufacturer IMO. But you need to build your case, not hold your hand out.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

http://www.autointell.com/european_companies/BMW/mini/oxford-plant/BMW-plant-oxford.htm

That was practically a total refurbishment of an old plant. Not just a retooling for a product change.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

The new Citroen C4 looks great and in the coupe hatchback style would probably make a good BTCC car for 2022. Would be worth a pitch to Citroen, if I were PMR I would send JP down to Citroen UK to work his magic - all part of the same family as Vauxhall now so not treading on any toes.

PMR are probably one of the better placed to do this as they can present it as a JV with PMR parent company and also tie in the whole dealer team/support thing.

The days of rocking up at a car maker and asking for a million quid per year for 3 years to run a team for 'them' are not around, but if the team puts some of their investment in and can show how the ROI can be achieved, added dealer and customer engagement, social media presence, etc - you can put a good marketing case to a manufacturer IMO. But you need to build your case, not hold your hand out.

Agreed.

If you look at the three 'manufacturer' teams on the grid this season, they have all worked on developing cars without support from the manufacturer in the past, and demonstrated a product that the brands can see benefit in getting behind.

Subaru and Vauxhall were brought to the grid by teams that were already entered. IIRC, MG was the last brand to come to the BTCC and seek a team (although that was probably driven from someone else).

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The market is not anywhere near to being at a volume where the likes of VW, PSA, Ford can sell an electric estate and turn a profit.

I suspect they aren't making much profit on any types of estate given the low numbers they sell.

Mr Chinaman's tiny market share would certainly not return a margin.

MG is selling a decent number of cars in the UK - nearly 10,000 so far this year.
That puts it ahead of Lexus, in the same band as Suzuki and Dacia, and not far away from overtaking Mazda and Citroen.

Guess we'll see - but estate cars simply don't sell to family buyers anymore - they mostly buy SUV tanks. Sales reps tool around in estates, but they need diesel.

Sales of diesels have fallen by a third in the first half of this year, and now only account for 18% of the UK market.

Hybrids are not far behind that, and even fully electric cars have a >4% market share.

[crmalcolm]

[Pringles]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The fast Astra - if it gets production go ahead - will, like the fast Corsa, share it's Peugeot brother's parts bin. So the new 308 in this case. Likely a turbocharged 1.6 petrol with a hybrid gubbins.

Unfortunately the linked articles are typical "Auto Express" style mock up a new car that isn't announced and pad out with any legit sounding reference you can find. Or failing that, invent it. I used to write some of this rubbish in a past life.

I also believe the electric MG estate for sale in the UK story to be ********. The market is not anywhere near to being at a volume where the likes of VW, PSA, Ford can sell an electric estate and turn a profit. Mr Chinaman's tiny market share would certainly not return a margin. Guess we'll see - but estate cars simply don't sell to family buyers anymore - they mostly buy SUV tanks. Sales reps tool around in estates, but they need diesel.

I'd suggest you are incorrect about the MG 5 full EV Estate car. It is due out imminently this year. It's also on MG website for registering interest for it. Plans may have been delayed a bit because of COVID but it really seems the main focus for MG is mostly electric cars now and a few hybrids to appear in the meantime. Hybrid HS will be out fairly soon as well. The ZS EV has been on sale a while now as well.

The one thing they really missed a trick a on was a fully electric MG 3, which I expect will be on the cards if the all new MG3 for 2022 materialises.

Plus there is still plenty of talk of the electric E Motion making it to production hopefully fairly soon.

Sadly at present there is no suitable MG model that would be eligible for the BTCC.

[Pringles]

The only way I could see MG entering the BTCC again is with the all new MG3 for 2022 if it materialises and fits the current regulations size wise etc.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by RS67

Clearly explain what they do with the employees for 3 to 4 months each time they have a model change or upgrade. I have never heard anything so ludicrous.

I think there is an interesting discussion here, but what’s the point with this attitude as it just won’t be fun.

This is a clear moderation point now. Change the attitude. Feel free to disagree with people, but consider how you do it. See the FAQ.

Either move on or discuss reasonably (this doesn’t just cover this topic).

[crmalcolm]

In/around the Sunderland area, there are many who will tell of the impacts when a car plant moves to a new model. This impact may also be felt at those plants who see the move from pure ICE power-trains to hybrid or EV.

2018: - 'Nissan is to cut hundreds of jobs at its Sunderland car plant, as diesel sales decline.'

It's something you regularly see in the press, with both sides of the story told.
2016 - articles were hailing the building of future model(s) at the Sunderland plant, declaring x,000 new jobs for the area.
2018 - articles were declaring the troubles that lay ahead as the plant would be reducing it's workforce, as they set about retooling for the new models that were announced previously.

In effect, a lot of employees find themselves on short term contracts, or have insufficient years accrued to make any redundancy have value. Then, when the new model begins to be built, they return to the same jobs - but on new terms with the clock starting again.

The short answer to 'what do firms do when they reduce/pause production on change of models?' is a mix of options. Some staff are laid off, some are put on extended leave, some are retained to carry out the retooling process.

It is this very reason that an air of uncertainty hovers around the Burnaston and Ellesmere Port plants. Both plants make a single model of car, so if the introduction of a new model sees production paused, or worse still stopped entirely, then there is no job security.

Ellesmere Port is probably the most significant in terms of BTCC. A few cars on the grid benefit from the production being based in the UK for their models - and the Astra is currently one of them.

The current Astra is built at Ellesmere Port and Gliwice. When the next Gen Astra begins production, it will be commenced at Rüsselsheim.
One of the existing plants will then pause production to retool to the new model, whilst the other continues production. When the second plant joins Rüsselsheim, the remaining plant will cease production.
PSA seem to prefer Ellesmere Port, but there are a few issues still to be resolved. If the final choice ends up being Gliwice, then the number of UK-built cars on the grid will reduce further.

[Adam43]

I think this is best left now. It’s off topic anyway and we know what the motivation for posting is. If people are actually interested in this then I suggest a discussion in Road Car sub forum.

BTCC 2021...

[Pickles]

Probably should've posted this here actually:

https://www.team-hard.com/team-hard-...-championship/

😎

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Pickles

Probably should've posted this here actually:

https://www.team-hard.com/team-hard-...-championship/

😎

Look really, really good and so glad they've made the change! Hope they do a good job developing them.

[Racing Harz]

Fantastic looking cars!

[crmalcolm]

Team	Car	Driver	Notes
Confirmed Entries
Power Maxed	Vauxhall Astra	Plato	Confirmed in press release
Power Maxed	Vauxhall Astra	???	Confirmed in press release
Team Dynamics	Honda Civic FK8	Cammish	Confirmed in press release
HARD	Cupra Leon	Goff?	Confirmed in press release
HARD	Cupra Leon	???	Confirmed in press release
Likely Entries
Team Dynamics	Honda Civic FK8	???
Excelr8	Hyundai i30	???
Excelr8	Hyundai i30	???
WSR	BMW 330i	???
WSR	BMW 330i	???
WSR	BMW 330i	???
Speedworks	Toyota Corolla	???
Laser Tools	Infiniti Q50	Moffat
Laser Tools	Infiniti Q50	Sutton
Ciceley Motorsport	MB A-Class	Morgan
Ciceley Motorsport	MB A-Class	???
AmD (MB Motorsport)	???	???
AmD (MB Motorsport)	???	???
AmD (Trade Price?)	???	???
AmD (Trade Price?)	???	???
HARD	BMW 125i	Boardley
HARD	Cupra Leon	???
BTC Racing	Honda Civic FK8	???
BTC Racing	Honda Civic FK8	???
BTC Racing	Honda Civic FK8	???
Motorbase	Ford Focus	???
Motorbase	Ford Focus	???
Motorbase	Ford Focus	???
Team Parker	BMW 125i	???
Possible Entries
Speedworks	Toyota Corolla	???	Stated as planning for two cars at a given point
Entries with doubt

[medius]

How do we think hey are funding the project? I've heard paddock rumors about the whole outfit but lets stick to facts.

Pay drivers?
Lottery win?
outside BTCC activities?