what a waste of a really good car - Page 3

Reido Rules · 10 Mar 2002, 12:00 (Ref:232146)

You can do a lot worse than Tiff!!! At least he has experiance, which means we won't end up with a loony young rich kid who hasn't done anything to prove himself in both cars.

Tiff at least will know what he's doing and is unlikely going to cause a massive first corner pile up due to inexperiance. Being on top-gear no chance, Tiff don't do that any more, he quit in November I think, he should turn up on C5 soon. Plus if it was on Top-Gear, Driven, 5th Gear etc what's the problem it's publicity!!!

redshoes · 10 Mar 2002, 12:24 (Ref:232154)

Well said R34.

I can think of a number of tallented but budgetless drivers that deserve the Astra. From that point of view Slight (if he gets the drive) wouldn't have been my first choice but I'd rather see him that Dave Pinkney (which is what I assume Les was implying). That realy would have been a waste of a good car.

Jimeth · 10 Mar 2002, 19:56 (Ref:232393)

when do we find out what this is about/who/whatever it is.....??

Eaves is no 1 · 10 Mar 2002, 22:36 (Ref:232478)

Apparently tomorrow is the day. Keep watching...

nicker less · 11 Mar 2002, 08:39 (Ref:232654)

So much for only Kaye/Graves going for the seat!!!

RickP:Clio51 · 11 Mar 2002, 09:18 (Ref:232673)

Think there is some selective memory going on here...
I don't think anyone could justify putting Slight in the car on his Touring Car performances, clearly they are after the biker crowds and publicity.
As for those of you putting down Pinkney, the guy has run at the front of some very competitive Championships and would have had a significantly better chance IMHO of being competitive.
Testing at Snett Friday, Mr Chilton was not looking particularly good in the car... was only impressed with the way it was being driven once then realised Lemmer was at the wheel...
But you don't know what program they were running/ checks/ shakedowns or testing.
Cheers
RickP

cos · 11 Mar 2002, 10:01 (Ref:232708)

Quote:

Originally posted by touring fan
Either they've been hacked or there's something funny in the water supply.

I think they have been hacked....mind you they didn't exactly make it hard at all! http://www.totalmotorsportracing.com...play.asp?ID=20

KA · 11 Mar 2002, 13:47 (Ref:232803)

Quote:

Originally posted by parabolic
I think the announcement Les is referring to will illustrate the fact that the BTCC has lost its credibility as a Premier saloon car series, to become a media controlled circus driven by marketing departments and money!!

But isn't that true of motor racing in general at the 'professional' level? Right across the board, whether it's BTCC, F1, Rallying or truck racing, decisions are 'driven by marketing departments and money'- after all, whether it's the marketing departemnt of a manufacturer or the marketing department of a sponsor, they're the people paying the bills, so they're going to have some influence in what happens, even regarding driver selection

I've got nothing against Dave Pinkney- or Aaron Slight, Tom Chilton or anyone else-, and I'm sure Dave must be gutted about not getting the drive if he was up for it- but the same applies to Simon Graves or Chris Goodwin and anyone else who might have been in with a shout of getting the seat.

The people who are complaining need to remember something-there are always going to be more drivers chasing drives than there are drives available, and sadly, there always have been and always will be circumstances in which a driver's bank balance carries more weight than the times he does on track. Yes, it's a sad fact of life, but complaining about it isn't going to change the world

Before anyone reminds me, yes, I know I posted a comment early in the thread about the drive going to someone with more money than talent- I don't actually like the fact that life's like that any more than anyone else who's posted in this thread does, I just don't see the point in getting wound up about it, and I certainly don't see it as a 'waste of a good car'- if Slight's got the drive, then Slight's got the drive, deal with it.

We'll see what happens on the track in a few weeks anyway - hopefully he'll be competitive- although he didn't really achieve that much in his few drives so far, he does seem to have the talent to be able to perform competitively, and I wish him well, just as I hope the drivers left in the cold can tie up a worthwhile drive somewhere, even if it's outside the BTCC.

Super Tourer · 11 Mar 2002, 14:07 (Ref:232813)

This is kinda off the point or maybe not!

Trouble is indie teams just don't work....we are around two weeks from the first race and the only completed, confirmed driver line-ups in the indie BTC class are:

VLR with his two Pug's - IMO he is only able to do this because he was works supported last year and therefore has the kit and the cars paid for by a manufacturer, otherwise he would have gone ahead and built the Lexus he wanted to.

AK MG and EGG Astra - both have an element of manufacturer support in gaining deals/marketing,etc.

The 'true' indie teams

TMSR - doubt they will ever appear or maybe a guest appearance with one car later on.

GR - ditto - still looking for fully funded drivers.

Barwell - despite having the indie car on the grid - one seat filled with a fully wedged kid the other we are still debating....

In reality despite all the rule changes - running in the BTC class is still too expensive for indie teams to run a viable team. There simply aren't the willing sponsors or enough fully funded drivers to pay for them.

Last year we saw the result's of private teams not being fully funded and running out of cash. Too expensive - simple as that.

redshoes · 11 Mar 2002, 14:56 (Ref:232837)

This just in...

Quote:

Aaron Slight to drive Barwell Motorsport Astra

BTCC Touring Class graduate, Barwell Motorsport, has secured the services of ex-World Superbike star and 2001 Peugeot BTCC driver, Aaron Slight, to fill its remaining Vauxhall Astra seat. Slight joins the youngest-ever BTCC driver, Tom Chilton, in the Surrey-based outfit's incredibly exciting driver line-up.

see http://www.redshoes-racing.com/News/...5858439,89138,

KA · 11 Mar 2002, 16:14 (Ref:232877)

Quote:

Originally posted by Super Tourer
This is kinda off the point or maybe not!

Trouble is indie teams just don't work....we are around two weeks from the first race and the only completed, confirmed driver line-ups in the indie BTC class are:

VLR with his two Pug's - IMO he is only able to do this because he was works supported last year and therefore has the kit and the cars paid for by a manufacturer, otherwise he would have gone ahead and built the Lexus he wanted to.

AK MG and EGG Astra - both have an element of manufacturer support in gaining deals/marketing,etc.

The 'true' indie teams

TMSR - doubt they will ever appear or maybe a guest appearance with one car later on.

GR - ditto - still looking for fully funded drivers.

Barwell - despite having the indie car on the grid - one seat filled with a fully wedged kid the other we are still debating....

I don't think that's off the point at all- it's a much bigger issue than we've been talking about so far though- in fact it probably deserves a thread of it's own....

It does seem that it's as difficult as ever for indie teams to compete in the BTCC, but the question is- why?

I think to some extent, it's not just about money, but about availability of cars- unless you want to spend the money to develop a car yourself (and look where that got TMSR & JSM), there just aren't many ex-factory cars to be had- particularly if the factory teams are exercising any kind of conntrol over who gets them (ie MG)

The other question has to be about money- even though costs have been reduced compared to Super Touring, have they been reduced enough to make BTC-Touring a viable proposition for indie teams? If not, then we're increasingly going to see 'wasted cars' with driver line-ups dictated more by money than talent, and we're going to see them changing during the season as drivers run out of budget, and we're going to see teams fall by the wayside

Quote:

In reality despite all the rule changes - running in the BTC class is still too expensive for indie teams to run a viable team. There simply aren't the willing sponsors or enough fully funded drivers to pay for them.

Last year we saw the result's of private teams not being fully funded and running out of cash. Too expensive - simple as that.

If that's the case, then where do we go from here? Should the BTCC have followed the example of series like Belgium and gone down the Super Production route?

Just seen the picture of Slight with the Barwell Astra- the car looks good, and plenty of sponsors on board....

**touringlegend** · 11 Mar 2002, 16:41 (Ref:232899)

The new rules were designed to cut costs for manufacturers, I don't think Indie teams budgets will be any smaller at all...

Remember Peugeot said they'd offer technical assistance to anyone running a Peugeot, is this still happening??

Eaves is no 1 · 11 Mar 2002, 17:37 (Ref:232920)

Probably, but they also said they'd be back this year

Great news Slight is confirmed - shows that Les knows little if thats a waste of a car

touring fan · 11 Mar 2002, 19:02 (Ref:232963)

I look forward to seeing Slight doing more rounds this year than he manged last year. Regardless of whether he is a "name" or not, he was no slouch in either the peugeot or the Ascar that he drove last year. Just because he hasn't come up through the ranks of cars racing doesn't mean he shouldn't get the seat. I think he is good and he is an exciting driver to watch too. (does anyone know what he will do when Ascar and BTCC meetings clash?)

Jimeth · 11 Mar 2002, 19:13 (Ref:232973)

if that is a waste of a car then I'm Douglas Hurd...

parabolic · 11 Mar 2002, 23:50 (Ref:233207)

Quote:

Originally posted by Jimeth
if that is a waste of a car then I'm Douglas Hurd...

Welcome to the forum Douglas!!

KA · 12 Mar 2002, 13:09 (Ref:233521)

Quote:

Originally posted by touringlegend
The new rules were designed to cut costs for manufacturers, I don't think Indie teams budgets will be any smaller at all...

In which case, it could be in trouble in the future. The problem with depending on manufacturers, is that their participation is driven very much by marketing strategies- Vauxhall aren't in the BTCC just because they enjoy racing, they're there because they believe it helps them sell Vectras.

The problem with that is that manufacturers tend to come and go, as we saw with Super Touring- just suppose, for example Vauxhall decide next year to concentrate on rallying, MG decide that their Le Mans project is giving them the best results in terms of marketing, and Petronas decide to put more money into Superbikes at the expense of Proton in the BTCC- all of a sudden, if the independent teams have been priced out of the series (which is just what happened with Supertouring) then you've got very small grids again, and a series in trouble....

Whatever the regs are, they HAVE to make the BTCC an attractive place for independent teans to go racing if it's to be a healthy series in the long term

**touringlegend** · 12 Mar 2002, 16:27 (Ref:233631)

I see teams such as Barwell and Atomic Kitten the future privateers. Even though they 'claim' to be Privateers, I'm sure Vauxhall and MG will be able to arrange a few deals for them.

kristof14 · 12 Mar 2002, 23:02 (Ref:233890)

it'll be good to see how well slight does on the other british circuits considering his race last year was on the one circuit he knows best what with it being the UKs "bike circuit".

also we musnt forget that some of the worlds best drivers started on bikes like Damon Hill.

Minardi fan · 13 Mar 2002, 16:37 (Ref:234326)

Nothing wrong with Aaron Slight being in the car (despite the names we called him to the contrary last season.) He was impressive at Donington in the 406, and can certainly do a better job than David Pinkney.

parabolic · 13 Mar 2002, 22:11 (Ref:234591)

As Dave was not given the opportunity we will never know!

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