Commentators

[mjstallard]

Originally Posted by MRJUCY

His description of the G forces they drivers feel as like tying a rope to their helmet being pulled by a large Labrador during the previous race was truly mind boggling.

Quite - perhaps his most Alan Partridge-esque moment to date.

[ozrevhead]

Originally Posted by Rick

yes, it is my opinion, and in this case it is so!

Every race he gets stuff wrong - this week Webber's "gamble to pit early for dry tyres" which then turned out to be a "mistake" is just an example.

If he bothered to take any notice of anyone except Leeewwiiiis (or those directly racing him) he might have some idea of what is going on.

I was like WTF was he on about - and then he comes out how Mark inherrited 4th place even though he was the second fasted driver by race end.

And dont get me started on how they think the sun shines out of a british drivers backside!!!

Please for the love of God BBD DO NOT sign James Allen

[Knowlesy]

At least he'll be gone next year.

In all seriousness I have never known anyone so dullwitted to sit in a commentator's booth in my life. He should be a bingo announcer, not a front man for a top sport.

I feel embarrassed watching F1 in front of others purely because of his style. I made reference in the race thread to his tedious "Senna-esque" comments (which have littered his commentary in the past two races) but it's the "wahey the lads" shouting and stupidity that grates even worse.

It's by no means new this bias thing either, if you can call it bias, because prior to 2007 it was Ferrari-this, Michael-that, I love Ross Brawn blah, blah, blah.

He has improved since 2003, his lowpoint, but only in the same way that being told you have terminal cancer instead of AIDS is considered an improvement.

[MacMan]

I have to agree James Allen was WAY over the top on this one (yes worse than usual) and he really annoyed the hell out of me always comparing Lewis to Senna. Sorry but just now Lewis is nothing compared to Senna. I don't hate Lewis, infact I don't even know him, no really I dont but, I do like the way he drives a car. On the same note I don't know JA either but I absolutely hate the way he commentates on anything. Whenever Martin is talking I ask my wife to be quiet so I can hear him and that she can only talk over the top of James Allen. I have never liked him as a commentator and I doubt I ever will. I said to my wife that if Lewis flopped it out I bet James would be there on the end of it.


Another thing that annoys me is the useless idiots we have here on Ten. They have no idea at all what they are talking about, saying that Lewis Hamilton is the first British driver to win at Monaco since Graham Hill is pathetic. Yes fair enough they probably meant ENGLISH driver but please get it right or admit your mistake and correct it.

The best part of any F1 race coverage is when all you can hear is the cars going around the track.

[Chiefy]

Well I said on page one that I didn't want to get roped in - but I just can't help myself...

Since the announcement that F1 would be moving to the BBC for 2009 I can't help but feel that everyone has pulled their socks up - even Blundell and Allen. Especially Blundell, in fact, because sometimes he can utter something without a cluster bomb of grammatical errors blowing his credibility to smitherines.

Although I never really watched Senna race, I am of course aware of his prowess - and I suppose it's as damaging to Hamilton as it is to the great man himself that Allen levels this comparison so much. Maybe I was wrong when I thought Hamilton would become, in the eyes of Allen, "Formula One's first black champion". Perhaps instead we'll hear "...and Senna wins his fourth F1 World Championship!".

I have one thing to say in his defence: he noticed it was Kovalainen tagging Button that caused the spin before Brundle said anything. Brundle then congratulated him on being correct. And that's it, really.

Pro-Britain might be apt in the British media - but this man commentates to a global audience, and that is worth bearing in mind.

[Ralf's Girl]

The majority of his audience is British, though, and the coverage is funded by British advertisers, so I don't see why ITV's commentary team should be catering for other broadcasters who for whatever reason don't provide their own commentators for their viewers. It's not James Allen's fault that Australians are listening to him talk about Lewis instead of somebody else talk about Mark Webber.

(Just to clarify, I still find the Lewis-worship irritating in the extreme, but I understand why it's like that. It's possibly to just tune the majority of it out, although the comparisons with Senna did have me yelling at the TV on Sunday )

[pmonty22]

Exactly. Anyone who listens to this Lewis-mania will get a bit tired of it, English or not. Here in Ireland, we no longer have our own coverage. When we did, in the Jordan days, not all the talk was about Jordan (and not just because they were at the back a lot of the time!!). There were updates on how they were doing and if they were doing really well, like in 1998/1999, they talked about other drivers too. If they had always been talking about Jordan, I would have changed channel. I find myself doing thet automatically now when I hear the word Hamilton.

[Marbot]

He also uttered those magic words 'When do you think they'll go to dry tyres'.I'm not sure if it was Martin Brundle or Mike Gascoyne he asked as I was too busy pulling my hand out of the TV screen.

[Wrex]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

The majority of his audience is British, though, and the coverage is funded by British advertisers

Actually RG, your off the mark a bit there. ITV fund the (massive) rights invoice from on-selling the feed to Australia (and many other) nations, as well as local advertisers.

Your right though, we (other countries) should be demanding our local broadcasters broadcast it on mute, and give us local commentators (or anyone for that matter).

Sorry, British or not, he is a ******. If he were Aussie craping on about Webber I would be equally embarrassed and offended.

[petecossie]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

In fairness to him, all commentators make mistakes - everybody reminisces about Murray Walker, but he pretty much talked rubbish by the time he retired.

The difference with Murray was his style (it probably still iritated the odd viewer) which we had come to see as part of the whole F1 TV experience with BBC and latterly the ITV. He had his favourites of course Nigel and Damon but his praise of them didn't have the same grating effect on the viewers of JA on Leeewwiiiis.

I would think the % of for/against Murray would be an exact opposite in the case of JA.

It's a given that Murray won't return (well maybe the odd guest spot!) so it's time for some new blood to joint Martin Brundle in the commentry box.

I actually tried ITV muted with Five Live radio commentry on one race last year it was great.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by Wrex

Sorry, British or not, he is a ******. If he were Aussie craping on about Webber I would be equally embarrassed and offended.

That's exactly what you'd get if Australian TV had its own commentators - I don't believe it's any different in any other country, like a few people have said already. In Spain, I'm guessing it's just the Fernando Alonso Show, in Italy it's about Ferrari, in Germany it would have been Schumacher central before he retired, and in Australia it'd be all about Mark Webber.

It isn't particularly James Allen's bias that bothers me, because I've got used to it and just tune it out, it's just the fact that he's so OTT with it. I completely agree with Pete that it's time for somebody new to take over, and I'd be extremely surprised if the BBC decided to bring Allen over from ITV. I do think Allen does his best, but his best just isn't very good.

[Knowlesy]

There is no excuse for the fake British bias really. British motorsport fans admire drivers of all countries, indeed they tend to get behind a foreigner as much as a Brit.

We like our countrymen to do well of course (usually), but we don't get too hung up on it either.

Thus we all feel terribly patronised when James Allen 'speaks (shouts?) for the people'. Even more, it puts many off supporting Hamilton altogether although I think that is a bit odd really.

[Chiefy]

There's nothing of the underdog about Lewis Hamilton, which makes him harder for those persuaded by the idea of "the Great British reserve" to support him. We'd rather throw our weight behind the quiet chap in the corner, who might just spring a surprise, causing us to choke on our teacakes in the process!

James Allen contravenes British values when he speaks!

[Born Racer]

I'm not too bothered about things like the reference to the white stripes on the tyres for instance. Who knows, maybe ITV even insist on a certain amount of explanation for layment.

But the front race, middle race and back race thing Ralf's Girl alluded too is a load of rubbish. There is no cut off point between the front, middle and back, so that just makes no sense.

I am told that on Spanish TV there is a huge Alonso bias, but I think this stems from the country having a much greater motorcycle history. Obviously there are knowledgeable and more objective Spanish fans out there who appreciate the sport in general rather than merely getting behind a countryman (many of whom frequent this forum), but a lot of my Spanish friends who aren't so in to it are appallingly biased and just wish to rubbish Lewis Hamilton.

I think our coverage is then possibly more objective, but James Allen's approach does not help. Incidentally, I reckon Steve Rider's gushing is far worse actually. With James I sense that he likes Hamilton, but Steve had an angry look on his face after Monaco qualifying when Hamilton did not get pole. I find this disappointing as we know that Steve is a motorsport fan, and whilst he may have his favourites, it should not carry over into his presentation so much.

[BootsOntheSide]

Ignoring the other problems with James' commentary for a moment, the coverage has to be dumbed-down to an extent. The 'British motorsport fans' alluded to by Knowsley watch a variety of events whether a British driver is at the front or not, and certainly don't tune in for coverage of fashion shows or interviews with ditzy celebrities and drivers' wives - but a lot of people do. Hyping up the British drivers (especially one with the other traits Lewis has) is the fastest way to boost the audience, hence the need for ultra-simple explanations of everything. We are only fortunate that Brundle is very good at expanding on a topic and applying it to the current situation, meaning that he usually offers something interesting and useful for a wide spectrum of viewers.

[Wrex]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

That's exactly what you'd get if Australian TV had its own commentators - I don't believe it's any different in any other country, like a few people have said already. In Spain, I'm guessing it's just the Fernando Alonso Show, in Italy it's about Ferrari, in Germany it would have been Schumacher central before he retired, and in Australia it'd be all about Mark Webber.

And it is what we get pre/post race & fortunately is limited to those 10 minutes. I think it natural for commentators to give updates on their countrymen, but Alans obsession with Hamilton (British or not) is disgraceful. I suppose being British doesn't matter really, if he were fawning over Kubrica like this it would be just as annoying. We just wouldn't be wondering about his motives.

Also, the difference being the Aussies/Germans/Spanish aren't responsible for the international feed.

Amen to the change next year.

[flashing]

Originally Posted by Wrex

Also, the difference being the Aussies/Germans/Spanish aren't responsible for the international feed.

It's not the international feed, it's a BRITISH feed that other countries choose to take rather than pay for thier own operation.

And James Allen's 'obsession' with Hamilton is entirely normal. Just as is the Spanish 'obsession' with Alonso and other countries with their stars.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by flashing

And James Allen's 'obsession' with Hamilton is entirely normal.

normal?! - welcome to the forum, James

[flashing]

Originally Posted by Rick

normal?! - welcome to the forum, James

Heh. Perhaps obsession was the wrong word.

But I think most of you guys are going to be for a rude shock next season when the BBC coverage of British drivers continues at the same level.

[Malfunction Junction]

So long as it doesn't revert to "Button sits at the right hand of (insert deity here)".

[Dutton]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

But the front race, middle race and back race thing Ralf's Girl alluded too is a load of rubbish. There is no cut off point between the front, middle and back, so that just makes no sense.

I actually think this is one of the more useful things he has come out with (in terms of helping laymen keep track of the larger picture). There are three distinct groups within the field that, as a general rule, are fighting each other rather than other two parts of the field. Of course, all three "parts", so to speak, interact with each other, and remain competing in one event on the same terms, but, in general terms, these groups do operate on the terms of focusing on their immediate rivals for position.

The teams do this. They focus on who they are "really racing" rather than who may be nearest on track to themselves.

******

As to the general talk of bias and that: it is absolutely true all nation's that provide their own coverage do the same thing, but that does not lessen the crime of the other.

If I went and killed somebody, then to say in court that lots of other have people have, are currently, and will continue to kill people would hardly provide a convincing case of my innocence.

On the occasions James has talked of this idea I feel he has been clumsy and, at times, a bit misleading, but, fundamentally, I think he is right.

[Notso Swift]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

That's exactly what you'd get if Australian TV had its own commentators - I don't believe it's any different in any other country, like a few people have said already. In Spain, I'm guessing it's just the Fernando Alonso Show, in Italy it's about Ferrari, in Germany it would have been Schumacher central before he retired, and in Australia it'd be all about Mark Webber.

Well, not quite, The local Network provides the feeds for the AGP and when they make such a huge commitment they have also provided the FIA “default“ English language feed, though other countries do not need to take it. So, on more than one occasion the AGP has been locally commentated, they use to use the local experts and add a guest like Muddly Talker, the last time they did it was last year before the network lost some of its key motorsport commentators.
Anyway, the commentary was balanced, as are the pictures that every one see’s. This is more than I can say for some countries who will keep a local driver in frame despite other action going on, no, ITV’s director is not bad for that, BTW.

What we have now is the locals doing the pre and post race, plus they come back from the ads with a minute of info before (clumsily) blending into the ITV feed. In this time they will give updates where we may get a lot of local hero information, but also any other info away from the camera, such as people who are on a charge , or who is running out of position and why.

[Dutton]

Hmmm....I ran out of time to alter a couple of things in the previous post. The problems should stand out as obviously in the wrong spot, or else a blatant grammatical error.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by Notso Swift

Anyway, the commentary was balanced, as are the pictures that every one see’s. This is more than I can say for some countries who will keep a local driver in frame despite other action going on, no, ITV’s director is not bad for that, BTW.

As far as I'm aware, the director is local and everybody gets the same pictures around the world - therefore ITV can't show more of Lewis Hamilton, Italian TV can't show more of the Ferraris and so on. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on that, but last I heard, all ITV, TF1 and so on are doing is getting their own commentators to talk over the same pictures. Therefore they can talk about what their local driver is doing, but they have no control over whether the viewers actually see him.

Originally Posted by flashing

But I think most of you guys are going to be for a rude shock next season when the BBC coverage of British drivers continues at the same level.

You're right - there's no reason to suppose that the BBC's coverage won't be biased towards British drivers, especially Hamilton. Murray Walker wasn't exactly unbiased, was he? But to be honest, if I have to listen to a biased commentator, I'd rather it was just about anyone other than James Allen. He annoyed me even before Lewis came along, so as long as he goes I can only see improvements next year.

[Hendrik]

I think, a smart way to avoid or at least decrease problems with biased commentators is to get someone foreign. German pay TV Premiere works with former F1 driver Marc Surer from Switzerland and he does a hell of a good job there, now for more than 200 GP in a row. Everytime the other (german) speaker tries to make this into a german thing, Surer will pull him back on track. They're doing a nice job there, really. Might be an example for other stations.

Okay, Surer is biased when it comes to Piquet, the son of his former teammate. But it's still funny as hell because Surer is such a smartass. He asked "is Renault out of his mind? What are they doing.. putting him on dry tires, while Piquet isn't even capable of controlling the car on intermediates." After the race and Piquets crash, Keke Rosberg repeated just the same question.