Ford ends its relationship

[mountainstar]

Mark C is reporting another manufacturer is already lined up and will be announced before vegas.

[paul-collins]

Take it to the bank! lol

[gttouring]

i won't hold my breath...
what if its Volvo? let the swede's pick up the tab ha ha ha

[Matt]

Volvo is owned by Ford.

[f1manoz]

Considering the losses the Ford Motor Company are making at the moment, the announcement that their sponsorship was coming to an end came as no surprise. Let's not forget that they no longer have any presence in the Formula One World Championship, a place they always had a presence in for nearly 40 years.

[gttouring]

well FORD own a majority stake in Volvo and MAZDA- but it does not own them outright...
Volvo and Mazda actually makes a profit (considered as a controlled asset and technical partner- not a subsidiary) so why not use some of the fun money for racing?
Mazda does, and MAZDASPEED racing parts and services supports the racing programs by 90% the other 10 percent is advertising- not a bad system
the ALMS program is kinda floppy so bolster champcar- and stay out of LMP2 unless they can or have plans for a new 787 type racer LMP- MAZDA is wasting time there (in top tier sports car IMHO.)

[JohnSSC]

I may not have my facts exactly aligned here, gt, but Ford does own a good bit of Toyo-Kogyo (Mazda). That being said, it is not and cannot by Japanese law be a majority share.

That being said, Ford is so cash-starved right now that using any of the profits to have fun with racing won't go over to well with the shareholders. Of the $34 Billion in cash reserves Ford has on hand, 2/3 of that is borrowed money. They are going to be looking hard to find ways to keep the cash on hand as cash on hand...

It has been an amazement to me that Mazda can build great cars that people want and Ford seems not to notice and most of their product line are the types of cars people are avoiding in order to buy a Mazda.

Of course you could say the same about many decisions car companies make. My son drove a VW Polo around Germany for a week and was pleased to find a diesel would easily crack the 100 mph barrier. If they exported such a car I would buy one for my daily commute!

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Panoz-Volvo.. sounds a bit unusual does it?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by mac

What a load of rot. I cannot accept that Toyota has brought about the destruction of a single series that I know of.

IMSA GTP

CART/IRL - in both cases the level of spending rose to levels that were unprecedented previously, chasing out old guard teams. After Toyota left, the team incomes collapsed, leaving smaller fields, and the requirement for some assistance from organizers to fill fields as necessary. CART ultimately went bankrupt, and overall Open Wheel is still struggling to be either viable or relevant. Both series would be gone by now, if they were run as businesses.

In NASCAR, Toyota is already funding teams, well beyond what the Big Three had in the past.

[mountainstar]

I had heard last year Ford would be probably out due to another more attractive manufacturer coming in. So far the first part is true, so let's see what happens.

I don't think it really matters too much if a manufacturer is involved or not. It's a control engine formula and everyone knows that. The upside would be simply the prestige of having a manufacturer name involved with the series and the associated income/support that goes with it.

[indycool]

I'd think the "income/support" would be the major factor.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by indycool

I'd think the "income/support" would be the major factor.

Is it your opinion that Ford was providing much income/support the last few years anyway? It certainly didn't appear that way to me..

[indycool]

Didn't to me, either, Fogel.......I understood it to be minor cash plus TV advertising and support vehicles.. The advertising and support vehicles are going to need replacement, for sure, though.

[Fogelhund]

You know, Hyundai is going to be stepping up to the plate in more motorsports at some point. This is a growing company, very flush with cash flow, garnering an ever increasing market share.

It is my opinion, that they would make a very good partner for CCWS. They balked at the price of F1, and I'd prefer to see them race against some competition, but for the entry price, CCWS might be a good start.

[indycool]

Could be, Fogel.....Hyundai has been mentioned by folks before but it never seems to happen. The timing could be right.

[Snrub]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

I may not have my facts exactly aligned here, gt, but Ford does own a good bit of Toyo-Kogyo (Mazda). That being said, it is not and cannot by Japanese law be a majority share.

It has been an amazement to me that Mazda can build great cars that people want and Ford seems not to notice and most of their product line are the types of cars people are avoiding in order to buy a Mazda.

I can't remember if Ford actually owns a clear majority, but they haved owned a controlling share since the 70s. In the 90s they upped that share. One doesn't necessarly require 50% of a company to control it.

Ford's current product line is actually pretty strong. Mazda is responsible for the design of all sub 3.0L engines. In other words the 2.0L found in the Focus and the 2.3L found in the Fusion, Focus and Escape are Mazda's. The Escape is a very successful vehicle for Ford and the Tribute is pretty much just a rebadge. The Fusion is based on the Mazda 6 platform and if you compare the suspension to the Accord or Camry it's pretty obivous that a lot of design transfered over. The 3.0L in the Mazda 6, Tribute and 3.5L in the CX-9 are all Ford engines. The North American Focus is long in the teeth, but it's strengths have been driving experience which is what Mazda is all about. The Edge is a terrific vehicle and it certainly gives up little to the CX-7 for a lot more mass appeal.

[gttouring]

Well ford owns enough of the profitable mazda- to force the Bseries truck-let to be in the north american line up.
and apparently not enough of a stake is owned to offset losses (of course 12 billion is a lot to offset.)

[Amar7605]

Let's say that there won't be a manufacturer as a title sponsor this year, or at the very least Hyundai is the sponsor. Perhaps being broadcasted on ABC/ESPN will help in gaining more sponsorship in the future.

Hyundai sponsorship by itself won't help the brand image that much in the US, but if a Hyundai car beats other manufacturers?

[mountainstar]

Mazda is the rumoured marque to take Fords place. No surprise there.

The percentage of Mazda that Ford owns is in the low 20 percent.

[indycool]

No surprise at all. JMO, but two months before the opener, the financial part of the badging/sponsorship/whatever is not in that part of things, but in the TV advertising Ford supplied -- and paid for -- to help try to offset the time buy and production.

Since Mazda already has an existing relationship with CC, and CC has a $12-15 million nut to crack on TV this time with the new deal, any sponsorship or badging would be a throw-in to squeeze whatever it can out of Mazda for the TV stuff and Mazda is probably going to get a pretty good deal.

[Snrub]

I looked it up, Ford owns 33.4% of Mazda and that escallation occured in '96.

Hopefully a good deal for both parties can be struck. It would be great to see substantial Mazda advertising to go with a title or presenting sponsorship.

As for the B-Series, it's obviously very long in the tooth. I don't know about Mazda, but Ford has had a shocking sales revival of the Ranger (Bseries is a badged Ranger). As new vehicles have become increasingly complicated and affordable, the Ranger is simple and pretty stout (can tow 6000lbs - more than a Honda Ridgeline and only 1000 less than a F150 with the 4.6L V8). It still has the same frame and platform from 1983, but this is likely why they can sell it for Focus prices. No one else is in the same segment as the lower-end Rangers. It has to be cheap to build (R&D cost long written off) and it brings people into the brand. The kid who buys/leases a Ranger may come back for an F150 the next time. Rangers owners typically love the vehicle and used ones hold their value better than any other Ford (where I live used ones recently increased $2k in price).

[gttouring]

noshiz? about the ranger
i kinda like the looks, tidy little truck.
i had no idea it can tow 6000 pounds!
my race car on the trailer....hmmm

well good luck CC

[Snrub]

^ Exactly, there's some appeal there. Ford sells the Ranger as a truck for what a truck use to be, a simple work vehicle with a low price point. (for those that care, you need the 4.0L V6 with class IV package to make the max tow capacity happen and you should be able to pull your race car and a buddy's) Another interesting niche for off roaders the FX4 Level II is almost the only truck with serious stuff on it (eg. torson LSD, downsized and strengthened 15" alcoa rims with super nubby tires, tons of skid plates, extra heavy duty suspension, etc).

I know I've gone into too much product detail in recent posts, but there's a reason. If you look at Ford's product lineup in terms of the value of the vehicle, take a look at the competition and the price points, they actually have a very strong lineup. If Ford was able to somehow have the same product position as today, but have a clean slate in terms of reputation, production capacity, pension costs, etc. they'd be in a good position. GM has probably done a better job with the cost cutting, but they have greater product issues. If that was the case this thread probably wouldn't exist because Ford would still be with the series. I sold Ford's until recently and I recognize both the failings and the successes, but I think they have done enough stuff right that it would work without their other baggage that holds them back.

[norman-normal]

They need Henry Ford to bring them back to what made them great: a basic, high gas mileage, low cost, reliable vehicle and put their best engineers on it.

[JohnSSC]

Perhaps they should just examine a 1979 Honda Civic then...