[BTCC] Round Eight, Thruxton 27-28 Aug, Races 22,23&24

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Evantra

We could do a whole thread on 'lost' BTCC drivers! Brett Smith, Josh Price...

Speaking of which, Matt Simpson is racing in the Pickup Championship this weekend.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Think you misread! Just on ITV4

Do you think?

[crmalcolm]

As we get closer to the weekend, the weather seems to be settling on a low 20s cloudy day. This should help bring the FWD M-Sport cars back into contention - and with BTC knowing how to set their car up for this track, Cook should be confident of decent performances in the races.

The main issue that M-Sport cars still have to get over is the lack of a qualifying map.

[S griffin]

I seem to remember Cookie usually goes well at Thruxton. So that should be a good omen for him

[SSmith]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I seem to remember Cookie usually goes well at Thruxton. So that should be a good omen for him

Cook at Thruxton in recent years has been incredible. 9 wins. Victories at the 7 most recent events at Thruxton - 2018 (1 win), 2019 (2 wins (one at each visit)), 2020 (1 win), 2021 (3 wins from 2 visits), 2022 (2 wins already).

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by SSmith

Cook at Thruxton in recent years has been incredible. 9 wins. Victories at the 7 most recent events at Thruxton - 2018 (1 win), 2019 (2 wins (one at each visit)), 2020 (1 win), 2021 (3 wins from 2 visits), 2022 (2 wins already).

With Cook's form at the track, BTC's knowledge of setting the car up, and favourable weather - the only thing I can see between Cook and another strong set of results is the more aero-friendly Hyundai.

[SSmith]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

With Cook's form at the track, BTC's knowledge of setting the car up, and favourable weather - the only thing I can see between Cook and another strong set of results is the more aero-friendly Hyundai.

I agree. The only other slight curveball could be Ash Sutton or Dan Cammish if some of the problems with the Focus have been fixed. Sutton seems motivated, the Mountune-engine is strong, and he got 3 3rd-places at the May meeting. The BMWs will probably end up in the P4-P10 region in R1 and R2, with a R3 reverse-grid win/podium more than likely.

[Sodemo]

The Hondas will be the cars to beat I think. BMWs will be 4-10th. I think the remaining circuits and the time of year/weather will all suit FWD.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

The Hondas will be the cars to beat I think. BMWs will be 4-10th. I think the remaining circuits and the time of year/weather will all suit FWD.

from Turkington's perspective I doubt he will mind too much if Cookie gets another 2 wins as he is the least threat to him in the title hunt , as this would take away points from Tingram and Sutton too

[codename_47]

Ahhh from BTCC's dullest track to it's most exciting one, wish Thruxton got 2 rounds every season tbh

Just so long as it doesn't go full WTCC tyre issues and we get a proper slipstreamer barnburner, I'm excited for it!

[mattcanary]

Originally Posted by SSmith

Cook at Thruxton in recent years has been incredible. 9 wins. Victories at the 7 most recent events at Thruxton - 2018 (1 win), 2019 (2 wins (one at each visit)), 2020 (1 win), 2021 (3 wins from 2 visits), 2022 (2 wins already).

And Jason Plato goes well at Snetterton, (whilst don;t think it is Josh Cook's favourite track at all).

[mattcanary]

Originally Posted by SSmith

I agree. The only other slight curveball could be Ash Sutton or Dan Cammish if some of the problems with the Focus have been fixed. Sutton seems motivated, the Mountune-engine is strong, and he got 3 3rd-places at the May meeting. The BMWs will probably end up in the P4-P10 region in R1 and R2, with a R3 reverse-grid win/podium more than likely.

Think Gordon Shedden and Dan Rowbottom could go well too. Gordon in particular still well capable of winning non reverse grid races at his best. He's been very in and out but been quick at times this season

[mattcanary]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

The Hondas will be the cars to beat I think. BMWs will be 4-10th. I think the remaining circuits and the time of year/weather will all suit FWD.

Brands suits rear-wheel drive cars, but being last race of season weather could be cooler than ideal. Beemers struggle in intermediate conditions, although when it gets really wet they seem to be okay.

[mattcanary]

Originally Posted by codename_47

Ahhh from BTCC's dullest track to it's most exciting one, wish Thruxton got 2 rounds every season tbh

Just so long as it doesn't go full WTCC tyre issues and we get a proper slipstreamer barnburner, I'm excited for it!

Looking forward to a meeting on Donington's long circuit next season. The slow corner leading into the final chicane can produce a lot of action.

Good to see Donington get a meeting more in the summer. March and April meetings there can be very chilly

[SSmith]

This weekend's entry list
https://www.barc.net/wp-content/uplo...d-23.08.22.pdf

No BTCC changes as expected. As we've discussed, this could be Dan Lloyd's last weekend.

Ginetta Juniors - 21 cars, normal field + return of Bohra and Shanmugavel

Ginetta Supercup - 16 cars, smallest field of the season. Return of Reece Somerfield, no Henry Dawes, no Nick Halstead, no Josh Poulain. 4 G56 Pros, 4 G56 Ams, 4 G55 Pros, 4 G55 Ams.

F4 - 17 cars, same field as Snetterton

Porsche Carrera Cup GB - 19 cars, smallest field of the season. No Nigel Rice after that roll at Snetterton, no Ian Loggie as Snet was a one-off, no Justin Sherwood. Return of Mark Radcliffe after Knockhill startline crash. Just 2 cars in the Am class - Stanton and Radcliffe. Pro (10) and Pro-Am (7) same as Snetterton.

Mini Trophy - 30 cars entered, field seems comparable to their last appearance at Thruxton earlier this year

[SSmith]

Originally Posted by SSmith

Porsche Carrera Cup GB - 19 cars, smallest field of the season. No Nigel Rice after that roll at Snetterton, no Ian Loggie as Snet was a one-off, no Justin Sherwood. Return of Mark Radcliffe after Knockhill startline crash. Just 2 cars in the Am class - Stanton and Radcliffe. Pro (10) and Pro-Am (7) same as Snetterton.

The Porsche field this year has been an interesting one. Pro and Pro-Am have been the biggest fields this year (10 and 7 respectively) but only 1 Am (Josh Stanton who arguably could/should be a Pro-Am given his pace and age) has contested the full-season.

I do wonder if the new 992-spec cars are off-putting to Ams as they are incredibly close to full-on GT3 specification, cost more, and with increased speed are likely to be less Am-friendly.

The Am class (or participation of Amateur competitors) has been a key component of Carrera Cup since day 1 but it wouldn't surprise me if its either dropped for 2023 or if some major incentives are introduced to get Ams to enter.

[Sodemo]

The best racing of the whole weekend (imo) has always been the Fiestas, Clios, Minis etc. I would watch an entire day of that kind of racing. I guess when you have cars that cost "only" £30,000, then you do get closer racing and bigger fields. Its a shame in a way there isn't anything else like it on the support race package, the last thing approaching another saloon / hatch tin top series was the Leon Cupra series and before that you may have to go as far back as the Vectra V6 Challenge.

[antnee]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

The best racing of the whole weekend (imo) has always been the Fiestas, Clios, Minis etc. I would watch an entire day of that kind of racing. I guess when you have cars that cost "only" £30,000, then you do get closer racing and bigger fields. Its a shame in a way there isn't anything else like it on the support race package, the last thing approaching another saloon / hatch tin top series was the Leon Cupra series and before that you may have to go as far back as the Vectra V6 Challenge.

The new/latest Clio's had that opportunity, the reduced power and reduced complexity would have made the racing a lot lower cost and could have provided much bigger fields. The Mini JCWs are some awesome machines, but they aren't the cheapest things to run.

[S griffin]

I feel the support races this year have been exciting enough and each has had a healthy enough field to make it work. Porsches remain my favourite for some reason. Maybe it's the competition between the drivers, it's very closely matched

[SSmith]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I feel the support races this year have been exciting enough and each has had a healthy enough field to make it work. Porsches remain my favourite for some reason. Maybe it's the competition between the drivers, it's very closely matched

I think 2022 has been good for the support series. Good drivers, and good cars across the board really. The G56s sound amazing, and there are enough good drivers still in G55s that there is action everywhere. The Porsches are more closely matched. F4 has a new car and engine that means we might finally see it prove more relevant to the rest of the world - its definitely helping Alex Dunne be very competitive in the UK and in Italy. If it ain't broke don't fix it for Juniors and JCWs. We don't have fields of cars that are all grey/white/black. And driving standards has been ok on the whole as well.

The Porsches (and F4 for that matter) can sometimes bore me a little - bring Harry King back - but they have still had some decent races this year. It is great that its hard to predict who will be champion in the Porsches. Jewiss has a 13 point championship lead, but I reckon Martin, Smalley, Graham, Edgerton, and maybe Burton are all still in the fight. There's still around 70 points up for grabs! Rainford should maybe be classified as a Pro if he comes back next year.

[Evantra]

F4 I've found much better this year, whether that's down to the new car or a more competitive (and slightly bigger) field. Hopefully, from 17 at the moment, we could get 20 on the grid next year.

Ginetta Supercup, concerning to lose entries again. 16 cars in all isn't bad, but just 4 in the main class (and one dominating) doesn't make for good viewing. Perhaps a few of the Academy drivers should be persuaded to make the step up next year. Even the Junior grid I think was 30ish cars pre-covid?

[pimmy]

I'll tell you what doesn't make for good viewing: fake classes. The Ginetta GT4s and Carrera Cup would be much more interesting if the drivers were fighting for an overall championship. Instead, we have people out there racing identical cars but only directly competing against a third (or less) of the field. It's absolutely stupid that drivers can make overtakes which don't count for anything. I hope Ian Loggie is enjoying his trophies for finishing last at Snetterton.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by pimmy

I hope Ian Loggie is enjoying his trophies for finishing last at Snetterton.

Of course the car is new to him, but I was expecting a lot more out of him given his success in British GT, even as an Am.

[SSmith]

Originally Posted by Evantra

F4 I've found much better this year, whether that's down to the new car or a more competitive (and slightly bigger) field. Hopefully, from 17 at the moment, we could get 20 on the grid next year.

Ginetta Supercup, concerning to lose entries again. 16 cars in all isn't bad, but just 4 in the main class (and one dominating) doesn't make for good viewing. Perhaps a few of the Academy drivers should be persuaded to make the step up next year. Even the Junior grid I think was 30ish cars pre-covid?

I think there is a very good chance of 20 next year - I'm also hopeful that Motorsport UK can persuade some Italian and German F4 competitors to make guest outings in the same way that Brits race in Italy and Germany, but sadly Brexit might scupper that.

It is concerning re Ginetta. I'd hope that we'll see an increase at Silverstone and Brands. Thruxton can be off-putting to some drivers due to the speeds but it seems to only be the Pro classes that have seen a decline recently! The Academy has had 25+ entries all year so I'd hope at least 5 can make the move. Yes, Juniors peaked at 30 entries at Brands GP last season. I'd hope that a couple of the more 'senior' drivers step up - maybe McNeilly with Fox Motorsport.

[SSmith]

Originally Posted by pimmy

I'll tell you what doesn't make for good viewing: fake classes. The Ginetta GT4s and Carrera Cup would be much more interesting if the drivers were fighting for an overall championship. Instead, we have people out there racing identical cars but only directly competing against a third (or less) of the field. It's absolutely stupid that drivers can make overtakes which don't count for anything. I hope Ian Loggie is enjoying his trophies for finishing last at Snetterton.

I do miss the days of an overall championship in the Porsches in particular. If they had an overall championship the order would be slightly different, it would punish/reward accordingly, and it would make it easier to reclassify drivers who are way too good for their class. Rainford, for example, has finished ahead of at least 2, sometimes as many as 9, Pro drivers whilst his Pro-Am competitors are way way behind. I think it has also impacted some of the Pro-Am and Am drivers - why overtake/defend from a guy in a different class? Stanton at Knockhill and Snetterton was quicker than a couple of Pro-Ams but didn't overtake.

The Ginetta system seems to be working ok on the whole but it would liven things up a little if there was an overall championship especially with just 8 G56s and 8 G55s right now. Luke Reade in the G55s would have scored more 'overall' points than three full-season drivers who race a G56. We've also got the unprecedented situation of an Am winning a race outright but it only being judged against his fellow Ams rather than the entire field (admittedly the entire Pro field either retired or got disqualified).