F1's 2017 rising stars analysis

[S griffin]

Ocon's move on the first lap was over optimistic, while his second one was fair, Checo should have given him more room. They are both evenly matched, perhaps it's inevitable they have collisions

Wehrlein is doing his best in a bad car

Palmer, that's the best I've ever seen him drive on Saturday, then typically bad luck strikes, first with gearbox problem, then with gearbox change. If he ends the season with zero points, it will be a travesty.

Magnussen needs to watch himself with his driving, as we saw at Hungary and Canada. And what was that mistake he made at the chicane on the restart?

Vandoorne did well considering his 65 place penalty.

Stroll kept out of trouble at this tough circuit to finish just out the points

[Razzzor]

Yeah I forgot the first lap one between Ocon and Perez, but after watching it again now, it's really optimistic of Ocon to go and try that move again when he came so close to wrecking the first time. The second he was even further back. Perez was wrong to close the door the second time, but goddamn Ocon do you have a death wish? Just seemed so desperate to get back past his team mate that he did a move he probably wouldn't have done on any other driver. Trying that same move your team mate and heading into Eau Rouge side by side is just a little too aggressive imo, unless you're 100% side by side. Lost his head on that one. Not that Perez should have closed the door on him, but there was always a possibility that was going to happen. Ocon needs to calm himself moving forward and realise just being within sight of Perez in his rookie season is better than what all the other new guys are doing.

[RWill2073]

Perez took full blame for first incident, saying he was way down on power at that moment. Would likely have taken a big lift flr ocon to avoid that one, at a time when there were cars all around. That could have caused a huge wreck from behind.

The second, ocon had a big run. He was pulling along side quickly before Perez ran him right into the wall. Not sure how ocon could be blamed for either.

Looks to me like ocon is second most impressive rising star to verstappen, so much so that it is spooking his teammate into some bad moves.

[BSchneiderFan]

Vandoorne is a tough one. The engine is clearly a boat anchor, and he's up against a tough team mate, but he's been a bit... anonymous. Given that he was being hailed as The Next Big Thing after 3.5 and GP2, and a creditable season in SF, I'd expected more flashes of brilliance.

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Vandoorne is a tough one. The engine is clearly a boat anchor, and he's up against a tough team mate, but he's been a bit... anonymous. Given that he was being hailed as The Next Big Thing after 3.5 and GP2, and a creditable season in SF, I'd expected more flashes of brilliance.

Yeah, as great as Alonso is, he's still only human. Vandoorne should have been closer to him by now. I still trust in Vandoorne's talent though, so perhaps he's just taking a while to get into the flow, perhaps the cars aren't even and most of the teams focus is on Alonso. I still think he's definitely the best of the new guys.

[bella]

ocon and verstappen were very evenly matched in f3, there's quite a few people (mostly french admittedly ) who rate ocon over verstappen. personally i'm with them, verstappen has been nurtured to be a superstar since day 1 like norris, ocon's had a bit more of a fight for it and he's right with them...

there's also something quite disarming about the way ocon is going about putting his teammate in a corner. whereas verstappen came across quite cocky, ocon is more... doing a perez to perez. i liked how he didn't apologise for being a bit dramatic on social media, he explained why he reacted like that and skirted around it whilst making it look like an apology. clever boy...

[gert]

I think Vandoorne is getting closer to Alonso.
Where the difference was 0.6 to 0.7 before, I think it is now 0.2 - 0.3 and sometimes he is even ahead.

He was ahead after Q1. Q2 doesn't really count as he didn't actually participate in that.

I think he made progress after McLaren told him to adapt his driving style and move away from his FR3.5-GP2 style.

[Razzzor]

I didn't comment on the last race because I was too disgusted by it having a good race ruined by Seb and Max (really Kimi did nothing wrong, Seb did the Schumacher chop and Max ****ed his pants a little and jerked across straight into Kimi) and gifting effing Hamilton a win.

This time we had a much better race. The main man of the race has to be Vandoorne. This is I think the first time he's properly beaten Alonso fair and square. He outqualified him and had a legit 0.2sec over him in every qualifying session.

In the race Alonso had no problems. It's just he was stuck behind other cars for most of the race and couldn't get past them. Alonso had the better strategy imo pitting at mid race lap 26 with the leaders while Vandoorne came in far too early on lap 13 and had to go 43 laps on 1 set. But he held on, passed the Williams back instantly as Massa tried to keep his more talented (at this stage in their careers) team mate behind him.

Alonso struggled to really pass anyone and his fastest lap was 0.5s slower than Vandorne's when it should have been faster with soft tyres less laps to conserve them. So yeah, when's the last time Alonso got properly beat by a team mate and outperformed? Maybe just Button. Kimi and Massa couldn't outperform him at Ferrari, ever. Actually I think Kimi might have beat him once. Stoffels now done it and finally showing the form we expected.

Lance Stroll was strong, well at least stronger than his team mate. Williams disadvantaged him by giving Massa the undercut, but Stroll did well to get back past and pull away.

Palmer; for once was able to keep up with Hulkenberg. Kept him within 2 seconds even though Hulkenberg undercut him by 4 laps. Hulk then made the extra stop so Palmer would have finished ahead of him. Until he spun a couple of times. Duh Palmer.

Ocon. Hmm, did he run 53 laps on 1 set? Had to pit on lap 2, don't know why. Ran to the end from there and finished 10th but a decent amount behind Perez. Not his best race but damn that's a lot of laps on one tyre set.

Kmag an eventful race, seemed to be in the top 10 but had some rough battles, Alonso pushing him off track. Then Palmer spins and comes out next to him not wanting to lose the position. Still finished ahead of Grosjean but his fastest lap was rather slow.

Wehrlein, 10th fastest lap, not bad. But only finished in front of his team mate. It's a shame Sauber are so slow, it's ended Wehrlein's career really and how the hell is Leclerc supposed to stand out with them?

Hey what about Gasly? Sounds like he had fuel issues as he wasn't saving enough as it's all new to him. I remember looking at him running at the back battling with the Saubers while Sainz was 8th and thinking oh dear, you need to be doing better than that Gasly. Ended up beating the Renaults as well although they both didn't have smooth races. But then Sainz DNF'd anyway. Not the greatest debut (ie. Kmag and Vandoorne's debuts were a bit better) but we'll see him again next week. I think he's better than Kyvat, but not much to be honest. It took him nearly 2 years to win in GP2 and even then very nearly lost the title to his much less experienced team mate with them both in the fastest car. But I do think Gasly should finish Super Formula because the streak he's on he'll likely win it. Don't sacrifice the Super Formula title just for one extra F1 race when you're guaranteed a seat next year anyway since Red Bull have no other juniors to move up. Sainz is moving out and Kyvat is rubbish so they have no choice but to call Gasly up.

[Aysedasi]

Why does Hamilton have to be described as 'effing'?

[S griffin]

Vandoorne has had a good couple of races. Star of the future

Palmer looked feisty battling Stoffel in Singapore and finally got a points finish. He stayed up with Hulk before that spin, although IDK what caused it

Ocon only did one stop from what I saw, so good to stay on one set for so long

Stroll had another good race

Wehrlein is really dominating Ericsson again

Magnussen needs to watch his driving or he'll find himself very unpopular

And Gasly, not a bad first race as expected

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

I didn't comment on the last race because I was too disgusted by it having a good race ruined by Seb and Max (really Kimi did nothing wrong, Seb did the Schumacher chop and Max ****ed his pants a little and jerked across straight into Kimi) and gifting effing Hamilton a win.

This time we had a much better race. The main man of the race has to be Vandoorne. This is I think the first time he's properly beaten Alonso fair and square. He outqualified him and had a legit 0.2sec over him in every qualifying session.

In the race Alonso had no problems. It's just he was stuck behind other cars for most of the race and couldn't get past them. Alonso had the better strategy imo pitting at mid race lap 26 with the leaders while Vandoorne came in far too early on lap 13 and had to go 43 laps on 1 set. But he held on, passed the Williams back instantly as Massa tried to keep his more talented (at this stage in their careers) team mate behind him.

Alonso struggled to really pass anyone and his fastest lap was 0.5s slower than Vandorne's when it should have been faster with soft tyres less laps to conserve them. So yeah, when's the last time Alonso got properly beat by a team mate and outperformed? Maybe just Button. Kimi and Massa couldn't outperform him at Ferrari, ever. Actually I think Kimi might have beat him once. Stoffels now done it and finally showing the form we expected.

Lance Stroll was strong, well at least stronger than his team mate. Williams disadvantaged him by giving Massa the undercut, but Stroll did well to get back past and pull away.

Palmer; for once was able to keep up with Hulkenberg. Kept him within 2 seconds even though Hulkenberg undercut him by 4 laps. Hulk then made the extra stop so Palmer would have finished ahead of him. Until he spun a couple of times. Duh Palmer.

Ocon. Hmm, did he run 53 laps on 1 set? Had to pit on lap 2, don't know why. Ran to the end from there and finished 10th but a decent amount behind Perez. Not his best race but damn that's a lot of laps on one tyre set.

Kmag an eventful race, seemed to be in the top 10 but had some rough battles, Alonso pushing him off track. Then Palmer spins and comes out next to him not wanting to lose the position. Still finished ahead of Grosjean but his fastest lap was rather slow.

Wehrlein, 10th fastest lap, not bad. But only finished in front of his team mate. It's a shame Sauber are so slow, it's ended Wehrlein's career really and how the hell is Leclerc supposed to stand out with them?

Hey what about Gasly? Sounds like he had fuel issues as he wasn't saving enough as it's all new to him. I remember looking at him running at the back battling with the Saubers while Sainz was 8th and thinking oh dear, you need to be doing better than that Gasly. Ended up beating the Renaults as well although they both didn't have smooth races. But then Sainz DNF'd anyway. Not the greatest debut (ie. Kmag and Vandoorne's debuts were a bit better) but we'll see him again next week. I think he's better than Kyvat, but not much to be honest. It took him nearly 2 years to win in GP2 and even then very nearly lost the title to his much less experienced team mate with them both in the fastest car. But I do think Gasly should finish Super Formula because the streak he's on he'll likely win it. Don't sacrifice the Super Formula title just for one extra F1 race when you're guaranteed a seat next year anyway since Red Bull have no other juniors to move up. Sainz is moving out and Kyvat is rubbish so they have no choice but to call Gasly up.

Massa got "the call" to allow the $$$$ through and Ocon pitted because he had damage clashing with Massa at T1/T2... that was how $$$$ got through to start with. Ocon was later hit again by Sainz who took the "Rosberg Austria" line

[S griffin]

I'd say the Sainz/Ocon incident was more like the Schuey/Monty incident at the same corner in 2002

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Why does Hamilton have to be described as 'effing'?

Because the proper word gets censored. Do you really want to see Hamilton win every race and every championship forever? Most fans don't.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Because the proper word gets censored. Do you really want to see Hamilton win every race and every championship forever? Most fans don't.

No, I confess not, but it still doesn't justify the offensive descriptor, censored or otherwise. There was no need for the word at all.

[S griffin]

Hamilton is nowhere near the domination of TGF, he's only had three titles so far and two of them have gone down to the wire and he was beaten by Nico last season

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Hamilton is nowhere near the domination of TGF, he's only had three titles so far and two of them have gone down to the wire and he was beaten by Nico last season

Indeed, Hamilton's had to work a damn sight harder than Schuey ever did in his day.

[Razzzor]

Yeah Schumacher did have the advantage of some weaker team mates throughout his career. Irvine and Barrichello are no comparison to Alonso, Rosberg and Button.

I'm not sold on Bottas though. 2 good races which resulted in wins, but everywhere else and especially lately, Lewis has a big advantage over him.

[S griffin]

Next season will be crucial for Bottas. He's had flashes of potential WC material this season and now needs to build on that

[chunterer]

Rosberg faded quite a lot in 2014 and 15 before managing to maintain pace throughout the the season last year.

I think the 2 wins Bottas had he fairly dominated most of the race so the speed is definitely there.

Next year we will see if he can maintain the speed.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Rosberg faded quite a lot in 2014 and 15 before managing to maintain pace throughout the the season last year.

I think the 2 wins Bottas had he fairly dominated most of the race so the speed is definitely there.

Next year we will see if he can maintain the speed.

Isn't that a sign of how relentlessly hard drivers have to work to try to match Hamilton?

All of TGF's team-mates were shepherded into being Number 2s, but Hamilton's team mates have always been considered his equal. And I've always got the impression that Hamilton himself prefers it that way.

Rosberg faded twice, and felt compelled to retire after the herculean effort of last season.

[S griffin]

Rubens was probably the only one who gave it a proper go

[BSchneiderFan]

Schumacher's team mates were number twos by dint of him being much faster. It was rare - Austria 2002 is the obvious example - that the team needed to do anything. And of course at the end of 1999 Schuey himself played the perfect number two to Fast Eddie.

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Isn't that a sign of how relentlessly hard drivers have to work to try to match Hamilton?

All of TGF's team-mates were shepherded into being Number 2s, but Hamilton's team mates have always been considered his equal. And I've always got the impression that Hamilton himself prefers it that way.

Rosberg faded twice, and felt compelled to retire after the herculean effort of last season.

I wonder if Hamilton's teammates are lulled into a sense of comfort? Hamilton strikes me as the type that doesn't have to work too hard and can just show up and be great. If his teammates take the same route, they will suffer. Everyone else except maybe max will have to work and prepare as hard as possible as they should be anyway.

What made me think of this is the rain delays lately. Bottas has been hanging in the lounge chairs playing video games with Lewis. Other drivers are in the garage talking with the teams, preparing, while hamilton is relaxing. He can, being a talent that can show up and be great. Bottas probably should be doing stuff in ths garage with team, talking, prepping, something. But being lulled into thw Hamilton mindset, he's playing video games too. Maybe that's the difference in his later season performance. Like it has been pointed out, rosberg had to work harder last year. Maybe the previous years seeing his teammate not do a lot of the stuff he did last year, he also went a little slack on them as well to worse results.

[Razzzor]

It's exciting to add a couple new entries into the rising stars roster of 2017. There's a lot of them now isn't there?

Ocon, Stroll, Magnussen, Vandoorne, Gasly, Wehrlein, Hartley.

F1 isn't hanging on to it's old vets lately (except Massa).

Mexico then, obviously the standouts were Ocon and Stroll, great drives from both. Magnussen as well actually. They're all coming into their own now and it's amusing to see Perez having difficulty beating Ocon. He must be hating it.

Vandoorne was decent but not quite on Alonso's pace. Still, when Alonso was team mates with Kimi and Massa, he'd leave them 20-40secs behind. Vandoorne was remaining within 5-10secs of Alonso after they'd ordered him to move aside. So still a decent performance.

Gasly and Hartley doing a good job considering someone must have thrown a bag of bolts into both their engines before being fired

The fact that they're both fighting for positions between McLaren, Haas, Williams, Sauber is a good sign. It would be quite easy for a new driver to come in and be way off the pace, a bit like Vandoorne was early in the year. But both drivers are right on it in a car that has probably had little development this year and is really just a test team for RB, what with them switching to Honda next year which I assume is nothing more than a test to compare it to the main teams' Renault.

[S griffin]

Ocon certainly seems to have got the better of Checo now. He could go a long way

Stroll has been consistent the last few races and is amazingly now in the top 10 of the championship

Vandoorne is starting to match Fred consistently, showing the talent he always had

Both Gasly and Hartley are impressing. Magnussen’s driving has warranted criticism, but his drives in both Suzuka and Mexico City remind us of his talent. Wehrlein has gone a bit quiet lately, but he’s still worth a punt for a higher team