Massa Who?

[Born Racer]

He was actually going well yesterday before the penalty. 6th was it? Although I'm not certain if he wasn't out of sync on strategy, but I don't think he was. Perhaps someone could clarify.

[steve_r]

He was lapped by his team-mate. A drive through costs how much time - 15 seconds or so? Even without the drive though he probably would have been lapped by his teammate, and probably out of the points which is simply not good enough.

It's not like this was an isolated freak result - apart from Bahrain his performances have been abysmal.

It's sad to see - as I quite like him, but something is very wrong at the moment.

[Born Racer]

I agree it's going badly for him, but I thought of all the races, this one was a bit better. Fernando was particularly phenomenal this weekend, usually lapping a second to a second and a half quicker every time I looked at the live timing.

[steve_r]

Eh?

Surely this was Massa's worst weekend of the season? Especially if he was 1.5 seconds per lap slower than his teammate in the same car.

I dont care how good Alonso is, Massa is a multiple race winner and nearly won the WDC in the past, so these performances are a county mile off what he used to be able to do.

The only good thing that happened was that he had a decent first lap.

[spider]

I too don't see on the surface any point in Ferrari retaining his services. Unless there's a financial arrangement in place that is justifying his stay in the team there's no performance benefit to him having a drive there. Clearly the car operates within a tiny window, but Massa's not even acting as a good wingman for Alonso. He's not taking many/any points off Fernando's rivals, not bringing home points for the team, and is just so so slow.

Surely he can't be on a huge wage? Boot him out, and put someone in there (maybe Perez?) who will at the very least help take some points away from the Red Bulls, McLarens, Lotus' etc..

[barnettracing]

Originally Posted by spider

I too don't see on the surface any point in Ferrari retaining his services. Unless there's a financial arrangement in place that is justifying his stay in the team there's no performance benefit to him having a drive there. Clearly the car operates within a tiny window, but Massa's not even acting as a good wingman for Alonso. He's not taking many/any points off Fernando's rivals, not bringing home points for the team, and is just so so slow.

Surely he can't be on a huge wage? Boot him out, and put someone in there (maybe Perez?) who will at the very least help take some points away from the Red Bulls, McLarens, Lotus' etc..

+1 to this. With the title race looking so unpredictable this year (and with Alonso looking competitive, even if the car isn't 100%), Ferrari need their #2 to be taking points off of Alonso's rivals. At the moment, Massa looks unlikely to get into the top 12, let alone the points paying positions. Alonso could end up losing the title by a few points, and those few points could have been negated if his team mate 'took them off' a rival.

[luke g28]

Originally Posted by barnettracing

+1 to this. With the title race looking so unpredictable this year (and with Alonso looking competitive, even if the car isn't 100%), Ferrari need their #2 to be taking points off of Alonso's rivals. At the moment, Massa looks unlikely to get into the top 12, let alone the points paying positions. Alonso could end up losing the title by a few points, and those few points could have been negated if his team mate 'took them off' a rival.

This is true but with the current strength of lotus / sauber / williams, would any of their drivers really prefer to be in Massa's car?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

We've all said "he's not the same since the accident" but Ferrari hasn't been either. A lot of other teams have stepped their game up in the past few years after the Schumacher juggernaut. Raikkonen and Massa got some nice leftover crumbs but Ferrari I think was spent by 2009.

Why is then that Alonso's managed to step up his game, despite the car but Massa is unable to do so?

[Bononi]

This year seems to be unsual, add this that Massa is worse than never, even if he blames a car that suits better Teflonso.

A nightmare for the little brazilian.

[Hawkwood]

Just read a piece here:
http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/S...den,41879.html
It's about how Sutil will replace whomever goes to Ferrari if/when Massa gets the push. Seems to suggest Hulk going to Maranello.
Thoughts?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Ostrogothicus

Just read a piece here:
http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/S...den,41879.html
It's about how Sutil will replace whomever goes to Ferrari if/when Massa gets the push. Seems to suggest Hulk going to Maranello.
Thoughts?

If Massa goes, which team does he go to?

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

If Massa goes, which team does he go to?

Who's saying he'd get another seat in F1?
Why would another team want someone who is so obviously damaged goods?
Having said that, I'm sure at least a couple of the small teams wouldn't mind a driver with several race wins behind him, apart from that though...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Ostrogothicus

Who's saying he'd get another seat in F1?
Why would another team want someone who is so obviously damaged goods?
Having said that, I'm sure at least a couple of the small teams wouldn't mind a driver with several race wins behind him, apart from that though...

I was sort of begging the question but that's more or less what I was thinking. Would they want him in IndyCar? Rubens made the jump and is doing relatively well and Massa's a lot younger than Rubens.

[wolfhound]

Ferrari wants Massa to improve his performance, when a team is saying this then the driver needs to take notice.

Ferrari are also evaluating its options both short and long term, no mention of Webber though.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99622

[Bononi]

Ferrari is in dire straits with Massa's situation. Any driver that comes in, unless he's very talented, won't make much difference. I would go for Perez.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Yeh. I'd get Perez in there for the latter stages of the season, just to get used to his new team.

Then bam, new season, fresh start.

It would be kind of cool seeing Jerome D'Ambrosio get a shot, though. He seemed decent up against Glock. But for many reasons, I can't see this happening/probably isn't the best choice.

Selby

[wolfhound]

It amazes me that Ferrari do not have a reserve driver who is capable of jumping into the car and doing a competent job.

Most of the other top teams have a reserve driver ready to go if needed and they get some seat time in the car or simulator with those in McLaren's case racing as well.

[ECW Dan Selby]

You could argue that they've got Perez, I guess. But I take your point!

I would have thought at the click of fingers they could get him in their car.

Selby

[bella]

they've got bianchi too. his racecraft is something else, it's about the same level as hamilton but he lacks slightly in qualifying. he put in 2 completely stunning drives at motorland a couple of weeks ago, the second in particular being above and beyond in a lewis at barcelona context. he seems pretty good with the tyres too, though i'm not totally sure what he'd do in the extreme tyre situation we seem to have in f1 at the moment.

from an observer point of view his only real downside may be that there's too much faffing that interferes with his abilities in the same way that it does with lewis. his gp2 years were blighted by ummm... faffery. once you take out all the worrying about this and grumbling about that and isolate the actual racing ability you're left with a pretty spectacular talent.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Would a 2nd seat at Ferrari be alot of 'faffery' for him, too?

Fair point, though. From what i've seen of him he does look the real deal. But perhaps it may be a bit too much of a baptism of fire?

Selby

[bella]

judging by the measured way he went about correcting the team-related penalties he was handed at motorland (dq-ed from race 1 for an odd washer and having to start from the pitlane plus a drive through in race 2) i would say that baptisms of fire are not an issue a lesser driver would have qualified in a rage the next morning, or hurled it off or taken someone out on their way back. like lewis, he seems to have learnt from his errors of the past few seasons. he's also been hanging around with ferrari for long enough to fully understand the dynamics and politics around the place, so he knows how alonso is going to treat him and what's going to be expected from him.

i think you have to view any replacement as whether they would be an improvement on the current situation. would they do better than massa? if it's one of ferrari's young lads then will it harm them? if they would and if it won't, it's time to bring them in.

[ECW Dan Selby]

You're absolutely right. In comparison to now, it's a no brainer, isn't it?

Selby

[bella]

without knowing exactly what massa isn't doing very well it's a bit difficult to say isn't it? i didn't have the luxury of live timing on sunday to see how he was fighting his way back through the field but he didn't seem to be doing too badly at making up ground. how about qualifying? obviously there's an art to getting the most out of the tyres at the exact given point but it's fair to say felipe doesn't appear to be making a very good job of qualifying.

they want some sort of bianchi-perez hybrid really. bianchi's racecraft coupled with perez' tyre management and qualifying ability. mind you, perez isn't exactly shoddy at getting past other cars either... i seriously would not want to be ferrari having to make that decision!

[wolfhound]

Bianchi is with Force India this year and Perez is at Sauber. They are not in a situation where Gary Paffet is with McLaren or Buemi is at Red Bull.

Yes Ferrari can call on Perez or Bianchi but they are not available at a moments notice. I doubt they could be called into action during a GP weekend at short notice if one of the current drivers became unavailable.

[bella]

they could easily drag in bianchi actually. that's their logic for not having a third driver - there's plenty to be found kicking around the circuit should the need arise.