Brabham BT16

[Chris Townsend]

Ray

Sports Motors [Gethin's backer] was in Manchester, so that's not the connection. We will, in the fullness of time, get to the original owner of your car, however!

Chris

[Dan Rear]

Sports Tune in Scotland rings a bell re Walter Robertson the 70s/80s Spec Saloom man...

[Basicbc]

Good morning All,
Does the name Ian Peterson of Sports Tune Motor Co. Longniddry, East Lothian, Scotland ring any bells from the 1968 era?
Cheers,
Ray Smith

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Basicbc

Good morning All,
Does the name Ian Peterson of Sports Tune Motor Co. Longniddry, East Lothian, Scotland ring any bells from the 1968 era?
Cheers,
Ray Smith

You could ask them. They still exist:

http://www.sportstune.com/

[Chris Townsend]

I wonder if this has some connection to Ray Smith's BT16/BT15?

John Millar is third in the 1967 Scottish Libre Championship with a BT15-MAE, which I guess might have been the Fletcher car that goes missing after 1966.
He has the car for sale at the end of the season. However, Millar came from Bridge of Weir, which is over to the west of Glasgow and therefore some way from Longniddry and Fenwick Motors

Chris

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

As part of the Hillclimb Championship review it mentions that Mike Hawley had a "new BT16 chassis with Twin Cam" for the start of the 1966 season.

Any idea of the chassis number of this car & its current whereabouts?

[Chris Townsend]

Didn't Hawley have a new BT18 for 1966, chassis 8?
Is BT16 perhaps a misprint?

Chris

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Didn't Hawley have a new BT18 for 1966, chassis 8?
Is BT16 perhaps a misprint?

Chris

In the Sheldon/Rabagliati Black Book on Hillclimbing for 1966 Mike Hawley is shown in a BT16 throughout.

[Rob Bailey]

BT16 F2-8-65 for sale here.
www.classicthrottleshop.com.au

[skygod]

I recently had the pleasure of meeting a very nice Swedish guy (Hans Sjostedt) who happened to mention that in the 1960s he had been involved in F2 / F3 motor racing.

I would like to try and gather information on the cars he drove and if they are still around today.

According to formula2.net, in the VII Suomen Grand Prix 1967 he is attributed to driving a Brabham BT 16.

Any information would be most welcome.

Thanks

[mike faloon]

Re F2-3-65, Chris Townsend in post 25 has the car pass to Manfred Mohr in 1966, yet all his results for 1966 (F2 Register) appear to be in a BT15, possibly the Squadra Arena car used in 65, before turning to a BT16 in 1967. Is Mohr's 67 BT16 definitely the ex Ahrens car? if so where was it in 1966?

[Chris Townsend]

Mike

Motoring News 23.1.69 has an interview based feature on Mohr. It says he bought Kurt Ahrens Brabham for 1966, sharing the car with Dieter Bonhorst.
We know that Ahrens had a BT16 [F2.3.65] in 1965 through chassis observations by F1 Register.

The feature goes on to say that he used this car in the 1967 Temporada, then in Italy from April 67 onwards, fitted with a Novamotor.
For 1968 the feature continues that Mohr was promised a works de Sanctis, but it never materialised so he went back to the BT16 [and it says BT16] The car eventually goes to Gagliardi in July 68, when Motoring News 18.7.68 describes his BT16 as "ex Mohr" [and this car is regularly called a BT16]

However, MN 19.1.67 p.2 says that Mohr bought Dubler's BT15. [F3.9.65] with the pair teaming up as Zurich Auto Racing Partnership.
Dubler then buys a second BT15 [Ghezzi's F3.17.65] and keeps this as a rental car - it was probably Beat Fehr's car at Casserta in 1967.

I suggest that the Mohr/Dubler/Bonhorst set up has three cars in 1966, two 1965 built BT15s and the Ahrens BT16, with Bonhorst, mostly, using the ex F2 car.



The basis of all the appellations on F2 register are those of the F3 factbooks of F1 Register, reproduced without acknowledgment.

[mike faloon]

Hi Chris

Many thanks for clarifying that, without knowing of the Dieter Bonhorst connection there seemed to be a gap. These Brabhams lead complicated lives! Mike

[A Driver]

Originally Posted by Basicbc

Good morning All,
Does the name Ian Peterson of Sports Tune Motor Co. Longniddry, East Lothian, Scotland ring any bells from the 1968 era?
Cheers,
Ray Smith

Hi Ray, I know it has been a while since this post, can you recall to whom you sold your Brabham as it may help me with tracing the history of car raced in Canada. I have traced the history to Peter Price in Canada? circa 1978 thus far, anyone have any memories from that time? Many thanks.

[Robert_R]

Probably no big news, but F2-7-65 is offered for sale on Len Selby's website for a while: historicracing.org.uk/racecars4sale/f2.html

Description from the site:
------------------
Brabham Bt16 F2 1965

chassis no F2-7-65 Car raced in 1965 by Dennis O'sullivan for Baldyne Engneering as a formula two car with a sca engine the car then went to Sweden and raced as formula three by Lars Linberg in 1966 and then in 1967 by Jean Johannson the car was then sold by Gregor Petterson Promotorsport Owner bought the car in 1999 and it has have been class winner three times and classic car race champion in 2006.

The Lotus twin cam engine which is a all steel was fully serviced at the start of 2010 and the Hewland 8/9 five speed gear box is is perfect working condition.

The car has current HSCC papers and also up to date FIA paperwork The spare package that comes with the car includes the four orginal brabham wheels(magnisum) one spare rear rim two spare front rims orginal armstrong shock absorbers and various gear ratios also mea cylinder head and the trailer is included in the price.

The car is priced to sell at £36.500 pounds
------------------

Should probably have a SCA instead of the twin cam, I guess?

[sircosworth]

I'm trying to find the early history of a BT16 we currently have, chassis number F2-12-65. All we know so far is that Paul Collins imported the car to Australia and ran it in F2 spec with an 1100cc MAE engine, and then sold the car to Ken Smith in New Zealand in the early '90s where it has been ever since. Any help with early UK/European history of this car would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[raceannouncer]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

I wonder if this has some connection to Ray Smith's BT16/BT15?

John Millar is third in the 1967 Scottish Libre Championship with a BT15-MAE, which I guess might have been the Fletcher car that goes missing after 1966.
He has the car for sale at the end of the season. However, Millar came from Bridge of Weir, which is over to the west of Glasgow and therefore some way from Longniddry and Fenwick Motors

Chris

Going through my stuff, I found this from Ray Smith, probably from the 1970 (1969?) Knox Mountain Hill Climb (announcer information sheet):

"Brabham, car no. 30, Formula 3, Ray Smith, age 29, Kamloops, 997 cc, 118 HP, Purchased new in 1966 for Andrew Fletcher of the Scottish Privateers Team. In 1967 the car + Fletcher won the Scottish Formula 3 Championship. The car was overhauled in 1968 by Motor Racing Developments + sat idle for the season. Ray Smith purchased the car in Scotland last winter + on return to Canada won the first CASC regional race at Westwood."

Vince H.

[Denis Lupton]

sircosworth
In relation to the "BT16" you enquired about, please email me for history etc
Denis Lupton

[wfuller]

Originally Posted by merriewells

Hi Allen,

Your right about mostly nationals and regionals. Bob Fuller was the head of a large company at the time and had little time to go far. Steve Brownstein was also limited in time to take what was basicly a 3 year old car with the MK12 engine, putting out about 140HP and run around the country and race the continental series with newer cars (Lotus 41's, Brabham Bt 18's and 21's running the current engines, Cosworth MK13, Vegantunes and Brian Harts putting out between 170 and 180 HP.). You are correct about the Lime Rock race. Although 8th overall on the grid, he was, I think, 1st or 2nd amongst the FB cars, and ahead of a whole bunch of the FA cars with their big V-8's. Do you know how he finished that race, because I don't. I can say that the race at St. Jovite was a prelim for the F-1 race in 1968. He won, beating such Canadian drivers as Jacque Couture, Bill Brack, Craig Hill and Peter Broeker all of whom had the latest equipment. Both Rindt and Alan Rees were quite tickled to see the old Winkeman car still winning races.
With regard to your question of MK12's and Mark13's, These were 1600cc Twin Cam engines built,I believe, for the American market. The 12 was good for about 140HP, the 13 was about 150-160 and then they were superceded by Vegantune and Brian Hart with about 170 to 180HP.
Sending you the few pics I have is no problem as long as you can tell me how to e-mail them to you. I know that one of them is at that mentioned Lime Rock race with the car sailing under one of the FA cars in big bend.
One is seen in the rain at Watkins Glen, where the car scored an overall win, FA, FB and FC cars, by over 1 lap. Cheers, M.W.

I to am new to this, but I thought I might help those who have an interest in Brabhams and Bt 16 era cars especially.I well remember my fathers return from England and his description of his meeting with Ron Tarnack relating to the conversion of the Allen Rees F-II car to Formula B specs. It was to be a fairly simple job since that car had been run with a 1500cc engine in a F-1 race. I'm now not sure if this post will actually reach anyone, seeing the age of the postings, so I won't go further now. If there is any interest I have pictures, even at the docks where we were met by future owner Steve Brownstein. The high point of the car in our ownership was the track record at Thompson where it raced for the first time. Happy to share info and pictures if I'm reaching anyone.
Wade Fuller

[phdm]

Welcome Wade.
Your contribution is definitely of great interest.
Thank you.
Philippe

[allenbrown]

Welcome Wade

I'd be very interested in pictures and anything you have on your father's race results in the car. All I have recorded are SCCA Regionals at Lime Rock 23 Apr 1966 and Thompson Raceway 1 May 1966.

[jhh911]

Does anyone know how many of the 12 BT16 F2 cars still exist and especially any known history on the Martinelli cars of Moser and Bellasi.+Which BT16 did Moser race in F3 trim in the 1966 Temporada series in South America.My head is exploding trying to work it all out.Thanks

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by jhh911

Does anyone know how many of the 12 BT16 F2 cars still exist and especially any known history on the Martinelli cars of Moser and Bellasi.+Which BT16 did Moser race in F3 trim in the 1966 Temporada series in South America.My head is exploding trying to work it all out.Thanks

I'm not surprised you're having trouble. Moser appears to have bought F2-9-65 (using Martinelli Sonvico money?) new then traded that in and got a different BT16, F2-2-65, instead. I don't really understand why he would have done that unless he believed a Winkelmann-developed BT16 would have been such a significant improvement on his own BT16. So I am unclear which of those two cars he used in the 1966 Temporada.

Then it appears that he keeps that same BT16 through 1966 and it may even be the F3 car he uses on rare occasions in 1967. You'll need lots of photographs to sort it out with certainty.

[jhh911]

Thanks for that Allen, I have owned the ex PDM Brabham BT16 for a while and have now begun the detective work on the car.We know it is AM56 and have also now established without doubt that the car was used by Sbarro for a styling exersize/It is far too heavy as a modification to be anything other.I have photo of car in his workshop and have just uncovered Sbarro badge on front of bodywork to add to the Sbarro Chassis plate that came with the car.Although of course the body could be from any car,the chassis has a distinctive roll bar which is clearly identifiable.
Striping back the paint has revealed that the car was raced in Royal Blue /Red and later Green with a yellow stripe.Gelcoat on undertray was green and top light blue.Do we know anything about what happened to the Bellasi BT16 mentioned in the chassis list given earlier on the forum,also anything about the Paul Deetens BT16. This is fun!

[alleggerita]

During my research on Alfa Romeo race cars, i have found and bought a collection of old race documents from he 60´s (entry sheets/technical inspection sheets) from Italy, these also included documents regarding the following cars:

F2-5-65
F2-8-65
F2-9-65
F2-12-65
F2-14-65
F2-18-65
F2-20-65
F2-21-65
F2-25-66
F2-29-65
F2-30-65
F2-33-65

I would like to sell these documents to the owners of the cars, so if you are an owner of any of these cars, please send me a private mail.

Kind regards

Patrick Dasse
Hamburg, Germany