Bye Bye Klien/Jaguar and Ford in F1 !

[Super Tourer]

Originally posted by PaulSands
Lest we totally trash Ford lets just remember some of the great things they have contributed to the sport..three things leap to mind Formula Fiord, GT40's & DFV's

Quite, which only strengthen's the case for Ford to go back to sports car racing and stick to supplying F1 engines only.

Sadly with Formula Ford, whilst BMW and Renault are pouring resources into junior one make formuale and driver development schemes, Ford have seemingly abandoned Formula Ford to wither on the vine.

[BertMk2]

Originally posted by PaulSands
..three things leap to mind Formula Fiord, GT40's & DFV's

Don't forget the Escorts (Mk1, Mk2, Cosworth), the incredible RS200 and the ubiquitous Cosworth YB engine.

[Super Tourer]

BTW - I've edited the thread title to reflect that the discussion has evolved into Jaguar/Fords commitment to and reasons for being in F1 !

ST

[Nordic]

Ford have a great history in motor sport, which why it is such a shame to see them thrash around chasing the folly of F1 with a brand that would benefit from a different approach.

You could also add the RS500, BDA/FVA engine, Mustangs, Cortinas the list is endless

[Fogelhund]

I agree that Jaguar should be in Sportscar Racing, if anything.

Regarding Ford accomplishments, lets be clear that Formula Ford was not a Ford initiative, that the Ford GT's have as much to thank from Mr. Broadley as anyone at Ford, and the Cosworth DFV's.. yes Ford paid to have their name placed their too. Point, hire someone qualified to do the job for them, and they've been successful.

[BootsOntheSide]

Doing the entire F1 effort yourself is an extremely difficult challenge, and only Ferrari and Renault have had any success at it. Ferrari's current situation took years to build up after a long period of failure, while Renault simply integrated the existing Benetton effort into their own fairly seamlessly. They have been able to invest much mroe than Ford, in terms of top personnel and drivers, as well as having experience as a company.

Supplying engines is well within Ford's range - maybe they can go back to having one top-level engine for a big team, and anotehr cheaper one for the smaller teams.

[shiny side up!]

PlanetF1 is running a story about Klien having to drop out of testing tomorrow because he injured himself today in the Jag garage. Evidently he was using a brake cooling fan to provide himself with a breeze, and his finger slipped through the grille and got cut pretty badly by the carbon fiber blade.

NOT a good move, rookie. Webber is set to fill in for Klien at the test tomorrow. Maybe Klien was just after a little workman's comp in case he gets the boot soon...

[Kicking-back]

The Klien finger story is true but he should be fit for France.

[alesi95]

What on earth is Ford's Problem, They are always threatening to pull out of F1 and Rally.

How can one of the worlds biggest manufactuers have no works team in any Motorsport.

[Kicking-back]

They won't pull out.

As you say, alesi95, they're always threatening about this.

[grumpy1]

Lets look at the issue objectivly.Jag success has always been sportscars(bloody good ones to)but to see where the success came from you need to look beyond the people that put cars on the track.Back then the management where people who had racing in there blood and found ways to win.
Look at the current group.They are all bean counters who don't have racing in the blood.I doubt that if they pulled out of F1 that they would have any better luck in a sportscar.Theres no fire there.Sure they want to move up the grid but the current team don't know how.If Ford are serious they need to put in place some senior managers who know what it takes to do this.
If you look at the Aussie touring cars 4 years ago Fords constantly struggeled to get anywhere.Sure there was one team who did all right but the rest langiushed at the back of the pack.Jack Nasser got involved and a new model was born.The car in its design was based mainly around the race car.The chassis was designed to make a great bed for a race car yet still allow the car to go into general production.Ford now out sells its main rival in Aussie.
If they are serious its time to bite the bullet and install some racers at heart at the top.Time to stop blaming anybody for there misfourtunes but themselves.After talking to my sources I was assured Mark would stay at Jag if Jack Nasser was put as head.Sadly this wasn't going to happen so bye bye Jag.A pity as both of these blokes would have put Jag up front more than the once we have seen(Sepang).
I think it was Spider who said he worked for a unofficial Jag magazine.The Ford bosses don't know it but true Jag fans in Aussie know it.Funny how executives like to put there heads in the sand and are only interested in whats in it for them.The alarm clock went off earlier this year but sadly these guys are still fast asleep.

The Grumpy1

[jj2728]

a very simple solution to jaguar's problem.....give the entire enterprise BACK to someone who does have the passion for grand prix racing....jackie stewart......

[Trevor P]

It's just a vain ploy to take the attention away from the unreliability of their cars. Blame it on the slow driver (who out performed Webber on a couple of occasions this year).
But Webber showed he could get that car to go amazingly fast at optimum tracks and in optimum conditions. What could have been for Jaguar this year?
I some how though don't believe that Jackie does have the passion for F1 that is made out for him - more about hob nobbing with the Rainiers and dragging his terriers into five star hotels. I think basically the entire management team at Jaguar lack the hard F1 experience. No great problem when the McLarens are just so awful, as well as Williams, and Renault are not so great for most of this year.
Ray

[GTV27]

Originally posted by grumpy1

If you look at the Aussie touring cars 4 years ago Fords constantly struggeled to get anywhere.Sure there was one team who did all right but the rest langiushed at the back of the pack.Jack Nasser got involved and a new model was born.The car in its design was based mainly around the race car.The chassis was designed to make a great bed for a race car yet still allow the car to go into general production.Ford now out sells its main rival in Aussie.
If they are serious its time to bite the bullet and install some racers at heart at the top.

After talking to my sources I was assured Mark would stay at Jag if Jack Nasser was put as head.Sadly this wasn't going to happen so bye bye Jag.A pity as both of these blokes would have put Jag up front more than the once we have seen(Sepang).
The Grumpy1

OT but I think the V8 Supercar analogy is somewhat dubious. The relationship between the road and race cars so tenuous that to say that the needs of the race car influenced the design of the road car...well, its at best highly debatable, and more likely a bit of PR spin.

Re the Jac Nasser observation, sure he's a good manager, but what's the likelihood of him being invited (or coming) back after being kicked in the guts over the Firestone fiasco? (what's Jac doing now anyway?) So, again, believabily is low here too.

And, even if Jac came to Jag, you seriously think Webber would turn down a drive at Williams? Doesn't make much sense to me.

[Pete Fenelon]

Originally posted by Nordic
KA,
I think pettty much the same. The fact that the Jagaur F1 team could change its name and become something else highlights the fact that most current F1 teams are a commidity without any heritage that can be traded.
The Jag F1 team is no more or less a Jag than any other team up and down the pit lane.

Jaguar isn't "real" anyway; it was a decapitation of Stewart and a few tins of green paint (and not the original paint because it was "too heavy"; remember that little farce?) Stewart was building a strong brand identity, he serviced his sponsors well and created an excellent image.

Everything Jaguar has ever done in F1 has had the whiff of incipient disaster about it. It's underperformed, it's ruined managerial and driver careers, and it's become a pawn in corporate politics.

If Ford were serious about F1 they would be pumping gigabucks in like Toyota. They clearly aren't, which is probably a Good Thing because Jaguar wouldn't know where to start spending it anyway

[Pete Fenelon]

Originally posted by spider
did the Silk Cut or Castrol Jaguar XJR9/10/11's come across as any less of a Jaguar?

It's interesting, even the 14 - which was arguably "less" of a Jaguar than any of the others what with its Ford V8 engine - still kept as much of the loyalty as was still around in sports car racing. Jaguar and TWR captured the racing public's imagination in a way only VAG did with the Bentley return.

Ford should've gone off and funded a new generation of "Jaguar" prototypes to go and chase Audi, not grumble around in F1 - the "heat" they could've built up over a Jaguar/Bentley battle would've got them more column inches than anything the F1 team has ever done.

[Nordic]

Jag Fastest at Goodwood, Shame its a 1990 LM car!Jag

[Kicking-back]

Great event, the Festival of Speed.

[Dick Spanner]

Interestingly the project to re-build the wind tunnel at the former RAE airbase in Thurleigh (Bedfordshire) is due to start in the next week or so. This is the wind tunnel that Jaguar bought from Arrows a couple of year's ago. It's not proof of anything but the fact that the contracters are going ahead with the work must mean that Ford are not planning on pulling the plug imminently. I'm hoping to get a guided tour at some point as a family member is managing the site (he also managed the Benneton wind tunnel project back in the Alesi + Berger era).

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Nordic
Jag Fastest at Goodwood, Shame its a 1990 LM car!Jag

Shame? I'd use the word fantastic instead!

[Snapple]

Red Bull to purchase Jaguar Racing?

Red Bull are ready to snap up Jaguar and form the first all-American formula one team.

Red Bull are Sauber's top sponsors but for some time they have wanted to own a team outright. The deal would be worth around £100 million and with Jaguar's future unclear it looks ever more likely to happen.

The British based outfit is languishing ninth in the constructors' race and with the possibility of No1 driver Mark Webber leaving at the end of the year, a good bid would be hard to turn down. Red Bull will also be encouraged by the FIA, who hope to add a second American F1 race and are already talking to authorities in Manhattan. Red Bull would probably want American drivers to help boost F1 in the US but whatever happens they face a big job to turn Jaguar around.

[Kicking-back]

Red Bull's drivers would very likely initially be Klien and Liuzzi, rather than Americans.

[Adam43]

Welcome to ten-tenths Snapple

Could you provide a link or reference for that> copyright and all that - see ten-tenths rules and FAQ

Yes it seems that this is the best way out for Jaguar. Apparently it would cost over $100m dollars to get out of all the contracts and pay teh staff redundancies to just close the team! In which case a sale would make sense.

[Snapple]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
Welcome to ten-tenths Snapple

Could you provide a link or reference for that> copyright and all that - see ten-tenths rules and FAQ

Yes it seems that this is the best way out for Jaguar. Apparently it would cost over $100m dollars to get out of all the contracts and pay teh staff redundancies to just close the team! In which case a sale would make sense.

Thanks!

I typed it out of a English newspaper 'People Sport'

[Kicking-back]

People Sport, I suspect, lifted from Autosport!