[BTCC] Oulton Park, 17/18 June 2023, Rounds 13/14/15

[porsche962fan]

looks lik it will be another boring Sutton race 1 and 2 victory meeting

[stuart thompson]

Bring back success ballast ffs!

[Evantra]

Thought Ingram would have a bit more in store, bit disappointing. Thompson P4!!

Doesn’t look like anyone’s touching Sutton this weekend either.

[AnnoyedMoose]

Take Sutton out of it and the gaps were thousandths in the first session.

[SSmith]

Great performance by one of the best drivers on the grid, in a well-engineered car, run by a very strong team.

For those already prophesising a boring Race 1... Hill is P2 in a car that is still decent off-the-line and is someone who isn't afraid of a bit of aggression.

[BtccLee]

Does strike me as odd that it feels like the same people who would complain about a lack of purity, too much unpredictability and poor driving standards… are the same people complaining now week-in-week-out we are seeing one of the most consummate national Touring Car performances in the last twenty-years.

Sutton is incredible, the field is tight, the quality is high.

[SSmith]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Thought Ingram would have a bit more in store, bit disappointing. Thompson P4!!

I'm delighted for Bobby. Ingram slower than I thought he'd be as well.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by SSmith

For those already prophesising a boring Race 1... Hill is P2 in a car that is still decent off-the-line and is someone who isn't afraid of a bit of aggression.

The Beamers have been castrated to the point of uncompetitiveness , by the time Hill wil have warm tyres Sutton will be long gone and maybe lose some places too

[Evantra]

“Colin Turkington disqualified from the results of Qualifying for Round 13 of the Championship, after his car failed to comply with the post-session scrutineering checks regarding fuel.”

Another blow to BMW’s chances! A rare mistake from WSR.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

The Beamers have been castrated to the point of uncompetitiveness , by the time Hill wil have warm tyres Sutton will be long gone and maybe lose some places too

2 in the top 4, 3 in the top 8.
Behind the Fords, it's the most competitive car.
The truth is that NAPA has done a great job, not that others are uncompetitive.

[BTCC frog]

I have decided not to be annoyed by Ash Sutton's dominance this season and just be impressed. Never forget that Dan Cammish came within two laps of being champion of BTCC in 2019, and here he is finishing six tenths behind Sutton. Meanwhile, Dan Rowbottom, who has won twice in the past and was very impressive here in 2021, doesn't even make the top ten. It is the driver making the difference, and Sutton has reached a level not seen in the BTCC for a long time, in my opinion. It will be impressive to watch him totally walk this season.

However, I still think that it would be a lot more interesting if it were harder for him. If he can take such a dominant pole position with the least amount of hybrid, then races one and two are pretty much wrapped up, and it would be nice if we had the days of success ballast again because then Sutton would have struggled more in qualifying and the first race, and been able to make up for it with a great charge in race two, showcasing his racecraft which is also second to none. Although as I have said many times before, it would be best to have no ballast in the first and third races, only in qualifying and race two.

It was mentioned that the hard tyre may be a second and a half slower than the soft per lap, which is a bit of a shame because it means that the top drivers will just use softs in the first two races and hards in the third, spoiling the reversed grid race as they won't be able to fight back to the front. What would really make the whole weekend brilliant would be if Sutton decided to be really cocky and use the hard tyres in race two, try and defend the lead for an entire race against faster cars, and then try to win race three as well from a bad grid slot with the good tyres. Maybe we will have to wait for later in the season when he has a bigger championship lead before he attempts that.

It is good to see Ricky Collard and Bobby Thompson on the second row. In my opinion, Collard has been the most entertaining driver of the season, mainly because of his defence against Sutton in Brands Hatch. I hope one of these two can take a podium. I am also surprised that Thompson has outperformed Dan Lloyd this season, as I was last season when he beat Taylor-Smith so comfortably, and wonder if he is actually one of the very top drivers in the championship. Collard now seems faster than Butcher, which is also a surprise, and Butcher never seems to have shown the form of his brilliant 2020 season since. Hopefully Collard doesn't retire again at the end of the season, and he and Thompson could be the next two drivers to battle for a championship in the BTCC, of those who haven't done so before.

[Jon411]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

The truth is that NAPA has done a great job, not that others are uncompetitive.

But to be fair so has WSR over the years but due to the perceived RWD advantage their car has been artificially slowed (RWD ballast, ride heights etc).


I am not for one minute saying slow Sutton down, but maybe its time to reassess the RWD/FWD balance during the mid-season break now we have a FWD car/ driver really firing on all cylinders.

[v8supes]

Turkington disqualified from qualifying because his car failed post qualifying scrutineering.

https://twitter.com/BTCC/status/1670125393485897728

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Jon411

But to be fair so has WSR over the years but due to the perceived RWD advantage their car has been artificially slowed (RWD ballast, ride heights etc).


I am not for one minute saying slow Sutton down, but maybe its time to reassess the RWD/FWD balance during the mid-season break now we have a FWD car/ driver really firing on all cylinders.

But why should just the RWD cars be allowed to close the gap to NAPA?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Evantra

“Colin Turkington disqualified from the results of Qualifying for Round 13 of the Championship, after his car failed to comply with the post-session scrutineering checks regarding fuel.”

Another blow to BMW’s chances! A rare mistake from WSR.

The regulations are that there should be a minimum of 3 litres in the tank at the end of qualifying, and I assume each race, However, there was insufficient in Turkington's car during post qualifying scrutineering.

This answer the query from one of the members after a previous meeting about checks made on the cars after qually and the races; all the cars go into parc ferme after them and they are all checked, just not when they drive into the pit road like the first 3.

[Jon411]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

But why should just the RWD cars be allowed to close the gap to NAPA?

I am sure WSR's arguement would be why were they slowed in the first place - not WSR's fault (or Laser with the Infiniti) that they built the best car within the rules in the first place.

As I say - I am not saying NAPA should be slowed down, but similarlay why should the BMW be pegged back still.

[SSmith]

Something I hadn't noticed earlier - all 7 makes/model of car (and thus all 7 teams) were represented in the top 9 in qualifying. After Turkington's DSQ it becomes all 7 represented in the top 8.

Ford (1st)
BMW (2nd)
Toyota (3rd)
CUPRA (4th)
Hyundai (6th)
Honda (7th)
Vauxhall (8th)

[AnnoyedMoose]

I like the way Ash keeps saying about how much time he is spending on the simulator and how that has made a big difference this season. You would never guess he owns a simulator company.....

[Sodemo]

BMW were slowed because they built a car that was deemed to be too fast that the rules allowed and faster than the leading FWD teams. I think though that it was something of a perfect storm, Team Dynamics had been struggling to understand the FK8 from the previous year, Speedworks / Ingram had just debuted the Corolla and again was learning that car, whereas BMW brought the 3-series to the grid and it just worked from the get go.

[tocatrucky]

Originally Posted by Jon411

I am sure WSR's arguement would be why were they slowed in the first place - not WSR's fault (or Laser with the Infiniti) that they built the best car within the rules in the first place.

As I say - I am not saying NAPA should be slowed down, but similarlay why should the BMW be pegged back still.

Its an interesting take but would Gow prefer a championship in which just Motorbase and WSR are miles up the road compared to everyone else, or a champinonship in which Motorbase, WSR, Exceler8 et al are all scrapping for wins all the same level? I suspect we know which.

Motorbase getting pegged back is far more likely than the WSR cars being unchained. Fast cars get pulled back in usually (BMR Levorgs/Diesel Leons etc).

[Mike Harte]

As the BMWs and Ingram are there or thereabout with Sutton, it is not unreasonable to assume that if the BMWs were given some relief from there weight distribution or boost levels or gearing off the line, etc. then they would possibly just walk away from even Sutton. And then everyone here, apart from BMW fans, would be moaning about that.

What some people here want is the Sutton is pegged back, because it was quite evident from qualifying that he alone of all the Focus drivers was able to achieve the times that he did but by not transgressing the track limits; they all, I think, had their fastest times deleted for track limit infringements.

[mick bennett]

I do wondert if Ingrams car is not well ?. Only five laps in the first session, not much more in the shoot out, until just before the end of qualifying and then only 6th.



Well done Ash, 3 poles on the bounce fantastic !!!.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by mick bennett

I do wondert if Ingrams car is not well ?. Only five laps in the first session, not much more in the shoot out, until just before the end of qualifying and then only 6th.

Apparently not, the tyres just never really came on for the second part, all sounds a bit of mystery!

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by stuart thompson

Bring back success ballast ffs!

He has next to no Hybrid so the others have an advantage there

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Jon411

I am sure WSR's arguement would be why were they slowed in the first place - not WSR's fault (or Laser with the Infiniti) that they built the best car within the rules in the first place.

As I say - I am not saying NAPA should be slowed down, but similarlay why should the BMW be pegged back still.

In looking at how well Sutton is performing vs the BMWs, we seem to forget he is also performing that well vs every other FWD car too.

If you allow RWD cars to be 'pegged back less', you are just giving them a leg up vs the rest of the field. And don't forget, when you remove Sutton from the equation then the BMW is the highest performing car in the field.