Schumacher set to go after 2004

[Red]

Allen, he doesn't have to recognize anything. The circustances ARE favorable to him.

[allen_overy]

I wish MS all teh best luck and that he would be able to renew his contract (if he wishes to continue). All is calm to the public eye in the meantime. But when it really comes to the reality, the money thing, the MS-negotiating-for-a-new-contract in late 2003/early 2004 the management will take into account all realistic factors (the profitability, whether MS is dispensible, whether Ferrari has developed that "system" to win without MS).

The media and Ferrari did a great job packaging MS-Ferrari as a happy marriage, a dream_come_true. Nice, but when it comes to the hard decisions, welcome to the world of business.

[Red]

Look, Eddie's circumstances at Jaguar were not favorable. Jacques circumstances at BAR don't look so great. And yes, Ferrari-MS is a succesfull marriage. (by the way, you guys apparently are divided into 2 different camps. One that assert that Schumacher is the senior decission maker at Ferrari and the other one who say that he's close to being booted! Strange... strange.. )

[allen_overy]

Yes, you see, even in a bulletin board, there are divided opinions as to whether MS or Ferrari is the decision-maker. The same applies to the Board at Ferrari, each member having different agendas and incentives.

[Red]

Originally asked by me and remained unasnwered
I presume that you can provide some names, who said before and who says now?

You see, I CAN provide names from each of the 2 camps. Can you do the same? Start with the big boss. Luca di, what do you suspect his agenda is?

PS: I forgot. I will keep an watchfull eye on your future posts at 1010ths. And if you will ever say something like "Schumacher demands Rubens to move over, or Number 1 status" or similar I will be right on your back, all guns blazing...

[Valve Bounce]

Why bother? I told you, have a look at his delusional posts. :confused: He has accessed some mysterious paysite, and suddenly he is a business management expert and can foretell that Michael Schumacher is going to be fired. I went to a paysite like that once, a long time ago - he's a fortune teller at the Yaumati Night market. Cost me only HK$10, great fun.

[Shoe-maker]

Schumacher should go on and on for as long as he likes if he enjoys driving and winning things. The biggest compliment you can pay him is "wait until TGF goes and then maybe my guy will have a chance of winning the title."

[allen_overy]

VB: please don't pretend to be a seasoned professional or anything like that before you make noices about business, management. I have carried out due diligence work for companies to be listed. How about you? No? please remain silent.

[Red]

Allen, this is not a management forum. This is a motorsport forum. Good for you if you're an management expert, but this is not what we do usually discuss here. Anyway, you had a vision. Good for you. We do believe that it is wrong. You don't agree. Where's the problem? Most of us still believe that it is ridiculous despite your experience in management. I guess that we all should agree to disagree and remain silent, at least in this thread. What do you say?

PS: You see, when you use constructions like "The same [nota Red: "Schumacher is/is not the decission maker"] applies to the Board at Ferrari" or "so more and more people within the managerial ranks of the Scuderia would say that this is the time to show MS the door" etc, I expect that you actually know what you're talking about. So, I ask you 3rd time: WHO? And how do you know?

[Kicking-back]

I suspect if Allen was really a management expert he wouldn't go around making potentially libellous posts suggesting McLaren had lost a major investor

[allen_overy]

I am not responding to you, Red. I am referring to VB about his statement that "suddenly become a management expert". i am not telling him to remain silent about F1 affairs here--this is a forum on F1! But what i am not exactly comfortable is that he is making comments about my being any "management expert" which is totally irrelevant to this. I am just looking at the state of affais of Ferrari from the company management's point of view. This is simply the viewpoint of any management on a business. Yes, I do not view this as a sport, but a business. Is there anything wrong with this?

[allen_overy]

kicking back: You are cliaming libel against the wrong party! sorry! The correct party is F1central.net. And if you are kind enough please forward your message to Mclaren F1! tehy are the right plaintiffs! Thank you very much

[Red]

Originally posted by allen_overy
I am just looking at the state of affais of Ferrari from the company management's point of view. This is simply the viewpoint of any management on a business.

Yes, it is relevant. Your view is wrong. And, once again you use big words. Can you actually back the "from the Ferrari management's point of view" with something? Or "any management"?

[Kicking-back]

Repeating a libel is as much of an offence as making it yourself

[allen_overy]

There is no intention of committing an OFFENCE here.
No mens rea present. only acus reus (at most)

[Damon]

allen, your views smack very much of a person with a great understanding of management but very little of how F1 works. Do you seriously think Schu actually costs Ferrari money? For a start Shell pay for Schu's wages and secondly he brings in far more revenue in terms of sponsorship and merchandise sales than any other driver on the grid. The idea that Ferrari would drop him based on what he is preported to be paid is non-sencial as the 'business' would stand to loose a great deal more by getting in a lesser driver with a lower salery.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Damon
The idea that Ferrari would drop him based on what he is preported to be paid is non-sencial

However, i might believe allen if Michael had been driving for Williams, after all, they are the only team that does this sort of thing!!

[Damon]

of course, no need to bring up the Mansell/Hill affairs at this point .

just spotted my spelling of "sencical" there. Now that is one to be proud of

[Red]

Ron's purse does not have the tendency of letting the cash slip outside too easily either...

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by allen_overy
There is no intention of committing an OFFENCE here.
No mens rea present. only acus reus (at most)

ooooooooooooooooooo!! we're good at Latin too, are we Sounds more like bovis excreta.

I guess SchM better be scared because this new Manager from HK is going to have him fired.
I can see Tung Chee Wah being fired before SchM. Two chances of that: slim and fat.

[JohnSSC]

This has been too funny! Sure, MS will be sacked to bring in a cheaper driver! Right. Despite the arcane descriptions of the Ferrari Spa, FerrariF1 Ferrari do-dah-day boards, unless they have been taken over by the same types as those who run airlines (except Southwest) here in America, this proposal by Allen remains the ultimate anti-Michael person's fantasy of "getting rid" of Michael!

To paraphrase Liz's signature: "They call it motorsports, not motorbusiness!"

[Valve Bounce]

Yeah!! this is fun
At first I thought he was winding us up.
The funny thing is I don't like SchM, and I would not be unhappy at all if he was fired. Just the thought of this silly notion makes me laugh.

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by Red
Teddy, Ferrari would scale back their F1 program? Are you serious? :confused: Anyway, to suggest that Ferrari will start cutting the costs by 'showing the door to Schumacher' is, as I previously said, ridiculous.

Allen, your last post is absolutely correct! Except that you blew the general impression with your last paragraph... You see, he's paid this nice amount of cash for the reasons you mentioned. But you forgot another one, no less important: Frank or Ron or anyone else could use his stamina, ability, etc to improve THEIR cars! Something that I believe Ferrari are not exactly willing to allow...

Yes I'm suggesting that Ferrari may in the future scale back it's expenditure in it's F1 program, is this so hard to believe with current economic climate looking particularly bleak and FIAT's woes. What about when Schumi calls it quits after his 6th or 7th championship mighten Ferrari decide to reevaluate it's position then? Do you honestly think Ferrari is currently supporting cutting costs right now for the good of the sport? When has Ferrari ever done anything in the interests of the sport. Don't be absurd, if spending isn't reigned in I'd say in two maybe three years down the road even Ferrari won't have the budget to compete with the MAJOR volume manufacturers like Toyota, Renault, etc etc. Some claim that TOyota is already pouring more money and resources into their F1 program than Ferrari could ever dream to match. To dismiss my suggestion that Ferrari may cut back on their Formula 1 program on the basis of what, that Ferrari have been succesful for the last 4 years, that is laughable. Change is inevitable.

[Valve Bounce]

OK Teddy G, I can accept that Ferrari could cut back on their expenses in the future - and quite seriously they just might have to. But I honestly do not see them firing SchM to achieve this.
On the other hand, if SchM was driving for that bugger Frank, then there's every chance Frank would do the dirty on him the way he shafted Nigel and Damon.

[TeddyG]

I never meant to imply that they would fire MS. If that's the way it came across well I'm sorry because like you I think that's ridiculous. Perhaps his salary would be reduced after his contract expires in 2004 IF he wanted to stay on. That's a big if because it seems his dream team of Byrne, Brawn and Todt look ready to call it quits either this year or the next. Who knows maybe MS would be lured away by the big bucks offered by Toyota or BMW or Mercedes if this were to happen. My bet is that he'll retire or rather my hope is.