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14 Nov 2013, 12:08 (Ref:3331233) | #51 | ||
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If you want to compare FWD vs RWD vs AWD, at least stick to comparisons with cars of the same power, weight, tires, etc... |
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14 Nov 2013, 13:01 (Ref:3331241) | #52 | ||
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So no facts and figures and you've even compared non equal cars. Lets look at EQUAL cars shall we. Same suspension, same TOCA engine, same power, same weight, one is FWD one is RWD NGTC MG - FWD - 58.210s NGTC A4 - RWD - 59.104s Both driven by race winning drivers around a lap of silverstone in the dry; http://www.tsl-timing.com/?loc=major...&tabletype=gif Now, present me with facts and figures for near as dammit identical machines and I might believe and I quote |
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14 Nov 2013, 13:25 (Ref:3331255) | #53 | ||
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RWD is better for performance (and fun - hence the Mk2 Escort as a rally car ) but for day to day driving there's no real difference. Why? Because you shouldn't be driving a car so hard as to notice the differences on the road. Sure there will be times when it's wet and/or icy that you'll notice which end your car is driving from but on the whole for 'normal' driving it really makes no odds. If you've only driven 'normal' fwd cars then I can see why you'd not like them if you've driven them hard. But I dare say that the vast majority of 'normal' rwd cars aren't that special either. I think we have to face reality - most people driving don't care which end their car drives from (and some probably don't even know) as long as it gets them from A to B and fits all their stuff in. To most people the concept of enjoying driving is alien.
Just to throw something else in - Imprezas are awd but tend to understeer when pushed hard. And I can give you an example of some competition fwd cars that did rock the awd boys - the Maxi kit cars that used to compete in rallying. On tarmac those things could take the fight to the wrc cars - the Xsara and 306 maxi in particular were rockets. Dismissing fwd as 'awful' is a huge over generalisation (as is declaring rwd as the holy grail - I'm sure there are plenty of 'awful' rwd cars). Just so we know what you're basing your views on what fwd cars have you driven? |
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14 Nov 2013, 13:32 (Ref:3331258) | #54 | ||
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No need,I know from experience of how quick FWD can be,I also know that the aforementioned Megane coupe is as quick as an M3 on a certain circuit.
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14 Nov 2013, 14:37 (Ref:3331301) | #55 | ||
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Not "same power" as you stated. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104234 They even force the RWD cars to run a taller 1st gear so they don't swamp the FWD cars off the line as badly as they used to. Last edited by Dragger; 14 Nov 2013 at 14:48. |
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14 Nov 2013, 14:45 (Ref:3331307) | #56 | ||
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14 Nov 2013, 15:04 (Ref:3331316) | #57 | ||
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They also banned running mixed tyres (eg slicks on the front, wets on the back) to stop the fwd cars running away on a damp but not wet track. Equalisation cuts both ways.
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14 Nov 2013, 15:19 (Ref:3331322) | #58 | |
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Good point, FWD does have a slight advantage in less grip situations, damp, snow, etc over RWD. Thought I mentioned that earlier.
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14 Nov 2013, 22:19 (Ref:3331490) | #59 | ||
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My point is your first comparison with the civic si was ridiculous |
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14 Nov 2013, 23:19 (Ref:3331524) | #60 | ||
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There's nothing ridiculous about comparing two stock production cars of similar power, power delivery, torque, weight, and tires driven by the same driver on the same track. At least there isn't a governing body that's constantly trying to alter the boost, hp, torque, gearing and weight ballast to artificially equalize the performance while the teams are trying to modify the cars any way possible to make them as fast as possible while driven by completely different drivers with different adjustable set-ups. Too many altering variables for a comparison. Meanwhile Ferrari, Lamborgini, every F1 team along with 99% of the racing world don't agree with your thinking FWD is a faster platform for performance than RWD/AWD. Deal with it. The day Ferrari builds a FWD front engine car because it provides superior performance over any other possible combination is the day I jump off a bridge. Twice. |
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15 Nov 2013, 02:45 (Ref:3331592) | #61 | ||
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I always thought compact packaging was the primary reason to go FWD in the first place.
It is plainly false to suggest that 99% of the racing world prefer RWD. Do some research or stop believing that what happens in the USA is replicated worldwide. Bert is right, you should not be driving on a public road fast enough to notice the difference between FWD & RWD. |
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15 Nov 2013, 07:54 (Ref:3331635) | #62 | ||
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15 Nov 2013, 09:06 (Ref:3331660) | #63 | ||
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15 Nov 2013, 09:13 (Ref:3331662) | #64 | ||
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I don't think you get it. The silverstone comparison I presented and the cars I compared, were far more equal that anything you've presented. No body is saying FWD is better. Get over it..... But a lot of people have supported the fact (including actual results), that on the day... in EQUAL machinery there is very little difference. ONCE you go big power or high end development then RWD and AWD is superior. But you shot your self in the foot with the second to last sentence in your opening post. When ALL things are equal, FWD is just as good. It's just you've had two relatively poor FWD cars. |
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15 Nov 2013, 10:00 (Ref:3331674) | #65 | |
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It does also affect the equation a tiny little bit when the designer starts moving the engine around within the wheelbase!
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15 Nov 2013, 17:16 (Ref:3331817) | #66 | ||
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15 Nov 2013, 18:39 (Ref:3331851) | #67 | ||
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You can easily tell the difference between RWD, AWD, and FWD driving on the street. It doesn't take driving at 90% to tell. |
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15 Nov 2013, 18:51 (Ref:3331856) | #68 | ||
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You can easily tell the difference between RWD, AWD, and FWD driving on the street. It doesn't take driving at 90% to tell. |
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15 Nov 2013, 18:54 (Ref:3331857) | #69 | ||
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I don't buy 400HP Sportscars to drive like a lil old granny. With that logic, what's the point in buying a car with more than 60HP? |
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15 Nov 2013, 19:02 (Ref:3331860) | #70 | ||
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According go the list, the fastest FWD cars were outside the top 100. Looks like a huge majority of FWD cars are "poor" compared to RWD/AWD. Proven. |
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15 Nov 2013, 19:04 (Ref:3331861) | #71 | |
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16 Nov 2013, 17:37 (Ref:3332185) | #72 | |||
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Just so I know - is there any front wheel drive car (any - anywhere, no limits, road or competition) that you would concede is a good car? Whilst I agree with the basic idea of RWD is good I just don't understand the level of hatred you seem to have for FWD. |
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16 Nov 2013, 20:22 (Ref:3332275) | #73 | |||
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17 Nov 2013, 02:06 (Ref:3332397) | #74 | ||||
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I'd rock a Fiesta ST. I'd also hoon the crap out of it.
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17 Nov 2013, 07:59 (Ref:3332465) | #75 | |||
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Also no comment about the fact that an M3 will understeer worse than the Megane RS has been forthcoming from Dragger.????? |
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