The non racing Glick thread. The don’t really know what to call it thread.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by joeb

I saw it before I saw any of the people taking offense to it. It doesn't mention sim racing and it is a paraphrase of an old quote (can't remember by whom) but says something like "when the green flag drops the bullshit stops". The rest of the quote was about racing happening on track, and i thought it was just a post to show excitement for getting to Le Mans!

I am so naïve

No, not naive, just not susceptible to the lure of tripe on social media.....

[GT6]

ignore social media, it rots the brain

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by GT6

ignore social media, it rots the brain

Not all - forums are a type of social media

** unless you also mean ten-tenths rots the brain **

[GT6]

No Ten-tenths is just a bunch of mates discussing motorsport, social media is lonely people posting details of their unfulfilled life so as to pretend there is a point to their existence, yes i use forums for specific info but take care to avoid what i call "social media".

[broadrun96]

NM, not worth my time with people who complain about things that offend them and want them removed from their view. Ironic since many always also complain someone blocked them, but I guess they learned irony from Alanis

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by GT6

No Ten-tenths is just a bunch of mates discussing motorsport, social media is lonely people posting details of their unfulfilled life so as to pretend there is a point to their existence, yes i use forums for specific info but take care to avoid what i call "social media".

You've literally defined social media there

[Aysedasi]

Ah, but on the likes of Twitter and Facebook it's mates hurling abuse at the people they don't like, irrespective of what they achieve....

[Bcarr6]

I understand both sides here. I think what he said has been blown out of proportion, but at the same, as a small manufacturer, being so open and friendly on here, why take the risk of winding a big chunk of young fans up? And then block anyone for questioning the statement, folks that have been and probably would remain Glickenhaus fans. He is 100% entitled to voice his opinions, block whoever the heck he likes, and play by his own rules, but when your words are representing your brand, just doesn't seem like the best way to win buyer/fan loyalty.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Ah, but on the likes of Twitter and Facebook it's mates hurling abuse at the people they don't like, irrespective of what they achieve....

We’re getting off topic here, but it is mildly interesting.

I see twitter and facebook as two different things.

Twitter I like to see postings by people and organisations that interest me. Great to see their musings. Occasionally I might respond with a well done, or brilliant, or a piece of information if they are asking.

I would no more tell them they shouldn’t post what they did than shout shut-up if I was at an event they were talking at.

Facebook. For me that is for people I know, family and friends. Sharing experiences with those I care for, but can’t be with all the time. Been especially important over the last year or so and since I moved a long way from a lot of these people.

Some organisations do come up and I’m interested in that for, say, events, but I don’t interact with them.

I do not share politics, videos of people doing bad things, or other things like that. I might share a funny cat video.

10-10ths. Very specific for me. Bit like a club. Let’s have some discussion, but imagine you were at a club meet. Would you do round slagging off someone else’s favorite car, team, driver, etc… I don’t even want to, but if I did I wouldn’t here.

Not to say you don’t discuss though…

[Akrapovic]

So I feel like I can be honest here and people will understand what I mean and I won't get a twitter style backlash (ha). This is the bits that made me sad:

No one is suggesting you shouldn't do something you enjoy. We are suggesting that you should try real racing and that real is quite different from simulated.

Take your daily driver to a local drag strip or an auto cross. That's racing.

This is just a classic case of "What does a pint of milk cost anyway?".

I think it's safe to say that almost every single sim racer would go real racing if they could. But that isn't how the world works. Just because the person in a position of massive privilege tells you to go racing, doesn't suddenly mean you can.

It's just alienating to those less fortunate. And as a huge Glick fan since the P4/5 days, I was disappointed. Not angry, not gonna argue about it - just disappointed.

[Aysedasi]

For me, the italicised quote is perfectly fine, logical and something I 100% agree with. All that needed to be added is the words, 'If you can' in a couple of places.

There has to be more to this than that quote, surely? He's not telling anyone that they should immediately bin their sim rig and go racing.... Are we really getting that sensitive?

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

So I feel like I can be honest here and people will understand what I mean and I won't get a twitter style backlash (ha). This is the bits that made me sad:

No one is suggesting you shouldn't do something you enjoy. We are suggesting that you should try real racing and that real is quite different from simulated.

Take your daily driver to a local drag strip or an auto cross. That's racing.

This is just a classic case of "What does a pint of milk cost anyway?".

I think it's safe to say that almost every single sim racer would go real racing if they could. But that isn't how the world works. Just because the person in a position of massive privilege tells you to go racing, doesn't suddenly mean you can.

It's just alienating to those less fortunate. And as a huge Glick fan since the P4/5 days, I was disappointed. Not angry, not gonna argue about it - just disappointed.

Jim isnt suggesting that EVERYONE should go racing in real life, just that they can...

...its a lot more affordable and open to people than they think. He is just pointing out that for the same price as a decent sim rig, you can go racing which is correct.

If you have a daily driver then there are numerous options like road rallying, drag racing, hill climbing, sprints etc, all that are affordable.

If you dont have a daily driver then you can do karting or race hire karts cheaply.

My last sim rig including computer, wheel, tv, i racing subscription and games cost circa £2000. for the same price i could race hire karts for 3-4 years or race my daily driver in road rallys or drag racing for 3 or so years with no extra maintenence than the usual.

[Akrapovic]

Cool. I lived on bread and Tesco value coffee for 10 years because I often didn't have money for electricity. I used a hand me down PC, cobbled together from old parts. I had a partially broken Logitech wheel that had one working paddle, so I had to shift using the buttons. I got my games as gifts (except GPL - which was found in a PoundStretcher, long before I knew who Papyrus was). So you may have had a £2000 setup, but I'd like to point out that this is far from the norm and many of us do not have £2000 to burn on such things. To suggest that motorsport is affordable to the every day person is just staggeringly out of touch with how the world is, I'm sorry. To see a team I absolutely love saying things like "try real racing" was disappointing.

I said it right at the start - this absolutely smacks of "how much is a pint of milk?" and it appears that it was indeed the case. I'll bow out now as I'm not really interested in an argument, I just wanted to explain why I felt unhappy and disappointed with the tweets. Unfortunately, that disappointment has not subsided. I love Glick, but I felt like the tweets were a bit of a low blow, and I can't be part of that club.

Edit: The word I've been searching for in my head is gate keeping. I am not interested in gate keeping of things in general, least of all motorsport, which isn't known for its accessibility in the first place. Inclusion, not exclusion.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Cool. I lived on bread and Tesco value coffee for 10 years because I often didn't have money for electricity. I used a hand me down PC, cobbled together from old parts. I had a partially broken Logitech wheel that had one working paddle, so I had to shift using the buttons. I got my games as gifts (except GPL - which was found in a PoundStretcher, long before I knew who Papyrus was). So you may have had a £2000 setup, but I'd like to point out that this is far from the norm and many of us do not have £2000 to burn on such things. To suggest that motorsport is affordable to the every day person is just staggeringly out of touch with how the world is, I'm sorry. To see a team I absolutely love saying things like "try real racing" was disappointing.

I said it right at the start - this absolutely smacks of "how much is a pint of milk?" and it appears that it was indeed the case. I'll bow out now as I'm not really interested in an argument, I just wanted to explain why I felt unhappy and disappointed with the tweets. Unfortunately, that disappointment has not subsided. I love Glick, but I felt like the tweets were a bit of a low blow, and I can't be part of that club.

Edit: The word I've been searching for in my head is gate keeping. I am not interested in gate keeping of things in general, least of all motorsport, which isn't known for its accessibility in the first place. Inclusion, not exclusion.

I completely get what you mean. Sadly, because the debate - if you can call if that - happened on a platform where nuance can't really happen, I think the tone got nasty much more quickly.

This was mischaracterised as a sim racers being easily offended, but there is a lot more going on than that. 'Real' racing is prohibitively expensive just to watch on television, just like any sport really. As the boomer generation's standard of living rose, so did the television rights and ticket prices to actually go. Lots of people have simply been priced out. To 'stumble' on the WEC on British Television, you need to have a sports package which includes Eurosport, which costs two or three times a Netflix subscription...

I think a lot of people don't understand how much lower the standard of living has dropped in the West for young adults or how much less disposable income people have compared with 20+ years ago.

To bring it back strictly to this topic, my 'disappointment' came from the fact that I love this project to bits. I love seeing the car being built, I love having an eccentric figure showing he has as much innocent passion for the sport as I do, and above all, I actually just love the car. It would be brilliant if more people my age could be as invested in the story as I am. Sadly, a lot of young racing fans' only interaction with this project was to be told they're not actually into racing, they're spending their money in the wrong way, and to be blocked for trying to debate. Opportunity missed.

Of course, this whole thing would be immediately forgotten if Glickenhaus won Le Mans!

[S griffin]

It's just unfortunate. Just shows you have to be careful what happens online, but it was wrong of some people to throw out insults over a harmless comment

Obviously some were going to be offended by it, but they should have let it go rather than let it get to you. I just wish people would concentrate on the good work Jim did, it's been a great journey and helped make LM even better. I just hope things calm down now, we've got a great LM ahead of us. That's what matters to me, people can overreact way too quickly

We should all be grateful to Jim, he's kept us up to date and it's been an incredible journey of an ambitious and intelligent guy who has dedicated so much to this project which looks amazing. I wish him the best. I think maybe his tweet was taken the wrong way, but he did clarify his tweet and probably got bored of people trying to shoot him down. No time to debate with people who won't see what he really meant.

Anyway look forward to seeing how the car goes at Le Mans, it will be quite a thing to behold

[TF110]

I saw a few new pages on the thread and thought something exciting happened that I missed, I guess that might still be true! Regardless of what he says or doesn't say, he still has two cool cars on the hypercar grid. That's what matters most imo.

[Adam43]

It is what matters, yes.

I fear we will no longer hear of the exciting things from the horses mouth here in this club.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Sadly, a lot of young racing fans' only interaction with this project was to be told they're not actually into racing, they're spending their money in the wrong way, and to be blocked for trying to debate. Opportunity missed.

Am I missing something here? Some youngsters who can't afford a track day in their Civic instead put a deposit on the Valkyrie Pro and were therefore offended by Jim's comment targeting OEMs competing in the field of non-racing track cars? Is this what's happening now?

I mean, now that we've established that the comment which never mentioned simracing was indeed not referring to simracing, why is there still this desire to argue with Jim Glickenhaus about simracing? Or prove something to him? Or to be "disappointed"?

And, Gingers4Justice, I'm not making light of the money argument, believe me. For example, the WEC app/streaming subscription is considerable money for me here. Myself, I managed to get a decade-long simracing "career" off a Logitech G25.
But that was a completely wrong argument to have based on assumptions that turned out to be wrong. Why continue?

And yes, I find the blocking habit a little odd, you don't need to block people to disagree/disregard/ignore their comments. Unless they're that one guy attacking you via PM on 10-10ths with some rubbish they got from some right wing propaganda (you know who you are).

But let's consider that Jim perhaps has a different understanding of how social media works and move on and just continue being excited about the cars and the racing. I suspect we'll one day look back with fondness at these few seasons, before everything is completely homogenised and sanitised.

[tux]

This thread is modern society in a nutshell.

"This guy doesn't like what i like, hes the most evil person in history"

"This guy likes/says what i like, hes the greatest person in history"

That seems to be the general tribal nature of everything these days. The middle ground or allowing people to have different opinions doesn't seem to exist anymore.

[Truckosaurus]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

....'Real' racing is prohibitively expensive just to watch on television,...

I think more people at the top level of motorsport need to understand this.

(Looking at you WEC and charging people to watch via your app).

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by TF110

I saw a few new pages on the thread and thought something exciting happened that I missed, I guess that might still be true! Regardless of what he says or doesn't say, he still has two cool cars on the hypercar grid. That's what matters most imo.

Yes, exactly so.

[canaglia]

can I suggest a name for this thread?
"Jim Glickenhaus vs Sim Racing 2021 GP, presented by RFactor"

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by canaglia

can I suggest a name for this thread?
"Jim Glickenhaus vs Sim Racing 2021 GP, presented by RFactor"

or

"Jim Glickenhaus vs Sim Racing 2021, presented by overactive sensititivies....

[Pandamasque]

"The 10-10ths Fantasy Argument League"

[Adam43]

We already have many of those threads!