Merger Imminent?

[indycool]

KK talks out of both sides of his mouth, depending on which quotes you read. In Cavin's Indy Star story, he said he didn't know anything about it, that he text messaged TG last night to find out. BS. He should've been contacting his own partners.

Then, in a later story that Teretonga just quoted him, he seems to know all about everything. Posturing BS.

He also said everyone should shut up. He should start it himself.

[luke]

Originally Posted by indycool

KK talks out of both sides of his mouth, depending on which quotes you read. In Cavin's Indy Star story, he said he didn't know anything about it, that he text messaged TG last night to find out. BS. He should've been contacting his own partners.

Then, in a later story that Teretonga just quoted him, he seems to know all about everything. Posturing BS.

He also said everyone should shut up. He should start it himself.

So what you are saying is KK is Satan and TG is God?

[mountainstar]

I think it's over, whether next week, next month or next year. The people that actually care anymore are just sick of it.

For me I've got my own racing to worry about and plenty of other series to follow like V8 supercars, DTM, Rally America, A1GP etc. Life goes on.

[Alex K]

Had KK finally admit that he doesn't have chance with ICS? God, why did he come with this CCWS sick from beginning idea? We would've had one series for 5 years now with only. Come on Tony, we need one series, take that teams and let's forget about CC and those lost years, I feel there're gonna be one series soon.

[luke]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I think it's over, whether next week, next month or next year. The people that actually care anymore are just sick of it.

For me I've got my own racing to worry about and plenty of other series to follow like V8 supercars, DTM, Rally America, A1GP etc. Life goes on.

I feel the exact same way mountainstar. I think we all do really, well quite a few..

[Knowlesy]

To be fair, as much as I am not in admiration for Tony George and what he caused, he has a bit more respectability than Kalkhoven.

Indycar was hardly a successful venture, but he still has a hell of a lot more business sense than KK who seemed utterly clueless.

So if the merger happens some of you guys are just gonna ditch the whole thing? Surely not?

Anyways, yes we will lose races for a season but they'll be back. If they get this running this season, imagine the potential for 2009.

For now, a mixture of venues from both series and the IRL cars is pretty much perfect for me. We'd have an exciting calendar the likes of which he haven't seen for a while and it'd be goodbye to the dreadful Panoz (though sadly the engine note as well). High fives all round.

I truly believe this is almost sorted now, it's just a matter of when it can be achieved. 2009 is definitely the latest it'll be put into action I'd imagine.

[Amar7605]

I'm all for a merger, but what is the big rush to have it this year? Both CCWS and the IRL are starting their seasons in 2 months. This is going to screw everyone up.

They really should take this year to hammer out the logistics for 2009 instead of cramming both series together in 08.

[Knowlesy]

It's just too long to wait.

[icemachine]

http://www.wheels.ca/article/173268

Some interesting things in a TorStar article

The future of the annual Champ Car race in Toronto has been thrown into doubt by the latest developments in the long-running saga of merger talks between the two premier North American open wheel racing series.

However, in a statement Friday, Champ Car co-owners Kevin Kalkhoven and Gerry Forsythe, said, "Unfortunately, leaks and media reports about a possible unification of Champ Car and the Indy Racing League (IRL) have significantly hampered discussions.

"Over the past three years, we have fielded and offered several proposals regarding unification of the two premier U.S.-based open-wheel racing series, but we have been unable to reach an acceptable solution.

"Discussions currently are at a standstill, and we therefore are proceeding with plans to continue as Champ Car."

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by icemachine

"Discussions currently are at a standstill, and we therefore are proceeding with plans to continue as Champ Car."

Of course things are at a standstill. TG is off to Japan to clear up the Motegi date. Until that situation is rectified, everything is at a stand still.

Oh, unconfirmed reports that employees at the Champcar headquarters are packing their goods into boxes.

[Amar7605]

CCWS
*Apr 20 - Long Beach
*Apr 27 - Houston
May 18 - Laguna Seca
*Jun 1 - Zolder, Belgium
*Jun 8 - Jerez, Spain
*Jun 22 - Cleveland
*Jun 29 - Mont-Tremblant
*Jul 6 - Toronto
*Jul 20 - Edmonton
Jul 27 - Portland
*Aug 10 - Road America
Sep 14 - Assen, Holland
Oct 26 - Surfers Paradise
Nov 9 - Mexico City


IRL
Mar 29 - Homestead-Miami
Apr 6 - St. Petersburg
*Apr 19 - Motegi, Japan
*Apr 27 - Kansas
May 25 - Indianapolis 500
*Jun 1 - Milwaukee
*Jun 7 - Texas
*Jun 22 - Iowa
*Jun 28 - Richmond
*Jul 6 - Watkins Glen
Jul 12 - Nashville
*Jul 20 - Mid Ohio
*Aug 9 - Kentucky
Aug 24 - Infineon
Aug 31 - Belle Isle Detroit
Sep 7 - Chicagoland



I'm all for a merger, but does it have to be this year? Here are the 2008 schedules. At least half of the races are in conflict with each other. And with the contracts that the promoters and tracks have signed with either series, it is really going to be that easy to get rid of some races this year? And how can this be possible with both series starting their seasons in 2 months?

Does Champ Car and the IRL want to deal with the dozens of lawsuits that can potentially be filed? In my opinion it's better to hammer out all the logistics out for a merger this year and start 2009 with a merged series.

It's less of a headache for everyone.

[Knowlesy]

Let's be honest, Champcar was probably going to lose some of its races anyways. It is the trend of the times.

Some dates for both series will have ALMS will they not, so they can be headliners instead (if they aren't already!)?

[icemachine]

Laguna Seca falls on Indy Bump day, Toronto would be dropped without a lawsuit as it is CC owned, but I expect Legault will be after them for a Mt. Tremblant cancellation.

[mountainstar]

Apparently what is being said is 2008 is being run as planned with a merger for 2009. Ultimately it is probably best to do it right the first time then making a big mess of it.

[Fogelhund]

Sorry, don't buy that story MTNstar. Sounds like a deflection story.

Regarding Toronto... where would it fit?

June 14th has a Jays game and the Toronto Festival of Arts & Creativity, including events planned at the Harbour Front.

July 27th is the final day of the Toronto Jazz Festival

August 2nd is typically the last day of Caribana

Really, I think Toronto is not going to make the cut unfortunately, if this happens.

[madman16]

Don't care, just get it done. As long as Australia is on the schedule.

Power vs Briscoe vs Dixon

Bring it On

[enemy-ace]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Regarding Toronto... where would it fit?

June 14th has a Jays game and the Toronto Festival of Arts & Creativity, including events planned at the Harbour Front.

July 27th is the final day of the Toronto Jazz Festival

August 2nd is typically the last day of Caribana

Really, I think Toronto is not going to make the cut unfortunately, if this happens.

Toronto can handle multiple events in the city at the same time. I went to a Jays game on race weekend last year and If I remember we also hosted some Under 20 World Cup games around that time as well.
Toronto is well versed in holding large events.
Reserving the space would be more of an issue i think. I think the event could close down for a year and come back with a bang in 2009. There is too much money and marketing potential for Toronto to be permanetly gone however.

I certainly hope this merge happens because if it doesn't I (among others I imagine) will more than likely be moving on.

[icemachine]

Are you kidding? With the Miller Council, once its gone, its gone. Australia is gone, because as Oreo points out, Chicagoland on September 7th has guarantees to host the IRL series finale

[indycool]

The three races that have been mentioned from CC to join a "melding" effort are Long Beach, Edmonton and Surfers.

Those would seem to be the races that have the management and financing to make a go of it.

Look at the others. Portland is CC-backed and loses money. Lanigan is a CC designate as promoter at Houston and Cleveland, both of which lose money.

Mont Tremblant was just a movement of appeasement by Legault to CC when he went to NASCAR, not particularly because he wanted to do it.

And how many of the Laguna Secas and European track rentals have been "signed" at this point?

TG said in that interview that the IRL was talking to tracks with which it had contracts to accommodate the merger. Presumably, CC is, too, but IMO, CC had fewer entanglements. And from what we hear, it seems to be resolved except for Motegi and Long Beach.

From the reaction of CC car owners and drivers who have been interviewed, Bachelart seems to be the only one POed and that's because he said he just spent a million on a new DP-01 and some equipment. (If he spent a million on a new car, then where is all that cost containment?)

Time will tell.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by indycool

The three races that have been mentioned from CC to join a "melding" effort are Long Beach, Edmonton and Surfers.

Those would seem to be the races that have the management and financing to make a go of it.

Look at the others. Portland is CC-backed and loses money. Lanigan is a CC designate as promoter at Houston and Cleveland, both of which lose money.

Mont Tremblant was just a movement of appeasement by Legault to CC when he went to NASCAR, not particularly because he wanted to do it.

And how many of the Laguna Secas and European track rentals have been "signed" at this point?

TG said in that interview that the IRL was talking to tracks with which it had contracts to accommodate the merger. Presumably, CC is, too, but IMO, CC had fewer entanglements. And from what we hear, it seems to be resolved except for Motegi and Long Beach.

From the reaction of CC car owners and drivers who have been interviewed, Bachelart seems to be the only one POed and that's because he said he just spent a million on a new DP-01 and some equipment. (If he spent a million on a new car, then where is all that cost containment?)

Time will tell.

Yes a million on a DP01 AND new equipment. Go price out a new dallara ready to roll.

Houston and Cleveland lose money? Link please.

All this merger is tony george is short cars for this season and needs to fill the field. Has anyone ever seen him act with such urgency to get a deal done.

Whatever happens we have a long way to go to get back to where we once were. Concluding a "deal" is only the beginning.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Sorry, don't buy that story MTNstar. Sounds like a deflection story.

Regarding Toronto... where would it fit?

June 14th has a Jays game and the Toronto Festival of Arts & Creativity, including events planned at the Harbour Front.

July 27th is the final day of the Toronto Jazz Festival

August 2nd is typically the last day of Caribana

Really, I think Toronto is not going to make the cut unfortunately, if this happens.

I'm sure you wouldn't, that's to be expected.

The email sent out by David Higdon today says no deal concluded and all continues as planned for 2008. My personal preference is to see it done right the first time.

It looks like Toronto is not in the picture which is not good.

[indycool]

TG apparently isn't as short of cars as CC, which has seven with drivers at this point.

From the KK quotes either pleading ignorance or bashing away at whoever spoiled someone's little secret, he doesn't sound like a very happy camper.

Poster at another forum said Miller went on radio tonight with the following:

"Miller was just on 1260 WNDE. Miller said, don't believe the comments of KK being quoted by other news outlets. Not that those KK quotes are misquoted, but more that KK is flat out lying. Miller said, he presented his story to KK. KK had no issue with the story at that time. Then KK starts coming out bashing Miller's story. Miller said, KK's problem is that he said nothing to any of the CC teams. The CC teams knew nothing about deal in the last couple of days until Miller called each of them with the story. Miller said, KK was covering his own butt."

[Peter Ford]

this is great news if it is true,just have to wait and see what happens in the next few days.

[StuiE]

I hope it happens, I don't car about the DP01 either, I agree with Knowlesy, it's ugly, shame about the turbo engine, but I can live with that.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Amar7605

CCWS
I'm all for a merger, but does it have to be this year? Here are the 2008 schedules. At least half of the races are in conflict with each other. And with the contracts that the promoters and tracks have signed with either series, it is really going to be that easy to get rid of some races this year? And how can this be possible with both series starting their seasons in 2 months?

Does Champ Car and the IRL want to deal with the dozens of lawsuits that can potentially be filed? In my opinion it's better to hammer out all the logistics out for a merger this year and start 2009 with a merged series.

It's less of a headache for everyone.

The problem is that especially Champ Car doesn't have enough cars to fulfil its promoter minimums. They have contracts with these circuits guaranteeing that 16 cars will race (18 for the European races), and there are massive financial penalties if they can't do that.

At the moment Champ Car has a grid which is less than half the promoter minimum.
Indycar is probably two cars short of its promoter minimum.
Together they already have well over 20 cars, and the strengths of not competing against each other means other teams are more likely to commit.

Mar 29 - Homestead-Miami
Apr 6 - St. Petersburg
Apr 20 - Long Beach
Apr 27 - Houston
May 25 - Indianapolis 500
Jun 1 - Milwaukee
Jun 7 - Texas
Jun 22 - Iowa
Jun 28 - Richmond
Jul 6 - Watkins Glen
Jul 12 - Nashville
Jul 20 - Edmonton
Aug 9 - Kentucky
Aug 24 - Infineon
Aug 31 - Belle Isle Detroit
Sep 7 - Chicagoland
Oct 26 - Surfers Paradise

These races will probably get a spot because they are profitable:
- Cleveland
- Mexico City
- Motegi, Japan