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15 Dec 2004, 12:47 (Ref:1179961) | #51 | ||
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Time will tell I guess, one thing is that the teams are more technically advanced and have invested more in aero development and wind tunnels since that time - so progress should be faster.
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'I've seen it, but still don't believe it.....' |
15 Dec 2004, 14:12 (Ref:1180064) | #52 | ||
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(GMM -- Dec.15) A 2005-spec car 'slides -- a lot.' The Frenchman said: ''What's it like to drive? Slippery!'' Montagny said the new aerodynamic code, offering less grip in a FIA-inspired bid to slow cornering speed, is 'really noticed' in medium speed corners. ''The rear also slides more,'' he added, ''which can be fun for the driver -- but it really slows you down.'' Meanwhile, the new one-tyre-for-qualifying-and-the-race rule will mean that the clear-cut task of driving 'flat out all the time' during grands prix is no more, Franck said. |
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15 Dec 2004, 14:50 (Ref:1180125) | #53 | |
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after watching some great legends racing on sky last night from about 1978 i think its obvious what they need to do to bring back racing....
Make the cars properly driveable. Loose downforse (by 60%) Lengthen braking distances (standardise brake systems) Increase mechanical grip.. Big sticky tires widen car + Manual gearbox No launch control and big powerfull engines with rev limiters on. This may seem abit silly but as written earlier the cars are to knife edge, with such small edge to the limit how are you supposed to find abit more to overtake, especially as they can't run close together. Take formula for for example, if your following a guy whose exactly the same speed as you you can always push the limit that little bit further underbraking or carrying more speed into an apex to make the move and then sort it out after. As low down as formula renault the racing is normally **** for the same reason as formula one (wheel to wheel racing) The cars stop so quickly theres no real margine to be made braking late as everyone is already breaking at the absolute limit, so no real late lunges are that possble, and if you do go all out on the brakes and slide abit into the corner your buggered as the cars just snap on you.. Make them so there slower into the corners with longer braking distnaces but then you use your skill to control big bhp to get out the corner not just nail it an let the traction control take over, again advantage to be made up on control.. driver input contol.. Also an f1 car is no quicker than a GP bike in a straight line yet everyone says slow them down.. rubbish... let them do 240 / 250 mph, so what, if there not going around the corners as fast wheres the trouble if there not still doing stupid speeds only few metres before the apex of a corner where the issue. I've been in motorsport all my life and nothing ****** me off more than these basically easy to drive cars, yes there quick but anyone could actually get around a lap in one, maybe not fast but so what, could anyway get around a lap in an ex mansell 1400BHP honda williams of about 1986.. doubt it.. These are very basic point ive made, in a simple way, but in my eyes its a simple quest to improve the sport and i think they keep looking again and again into the wrong areas.. Last edited by Adam43; 1 Jan 2005 at 20:28. Reason: Autocensor dodge, see FAQ. |
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15 Dec 2004, 14:57 (Ref:1180132) | #54 | |
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Nobody ever raced with 1400bhp, or even 1000. Qualifying yes. I guess you could limp around in a turbo car by keeping it out of the boost, or turning it down - which is exacty how they were raced (admitedly for durability rather then drivavbility reasons).
Dantley - how can you say on the one hand that edgy cars are too difficult and then on the other that the same cars are too easy? I think you are pandering to the myth that TC and power steering = easy to drive, which is nonsense by your own admission. |
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15 Dec 2004, 15:13 (Ref:1180159) | #55 | |||
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Basically the relative lack of downforce combined with harder compound tyres that have to last the whole race will make the cars very differant! Also lock-ups will mean drivers will have to endure them race long and will suffer accordingly...This will be a championship that will play to the drivers with the most sensitivity and feel for their 'boots' I guess that will lead to drivers having to be patient, nurse their tyres and if still 'in touch' having to put late braking and lunging to the end of the race?! Last edited by Rennen; 15 Dec 2004 at 15:15. |
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15 Dec 2004, 15:16 (Ref:1180169) | #56 | |
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granted qualifying engines yes..
ok im following a myth... but look, take away some of the things that make the cars the way they are and you get better racing and reduced costs. I know lads who have been in F1 cars in the last 4 weeks.. so i guess i dont know what im on about.. Its all about downforce.. that causes the issues and expense. Change the rules as they have and within two years the cars will be just as quick again and millions will be spent by the teams getting them that way... |
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15 Dec 2004, 15:56 (Ref:1180228) | #57 | |
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I didn't say you didn't know what you were talking about - only that you contradicted yourself. Either one statement or the other is accurate - but your assertion that the cars are simultaneously edgy and too easy to drive doesn't make sense.
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15 Dec 2004, 16:31 (Ref:1180262) | #58 | |
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Glen: I believe the point he was trying to make was a simple one. Please don't read it differently. In '04 the cars were easier to drive compared to what could be in '05 and beyond.
IE. Loose downforse (by 60%) Lengthen braking distances (standardise brake systems) Increase mechanical grip.. Big sticky tires widen car + Manual gearbox No launch control and big powerfull engines with rev limiters on. Last edited by Kirk; 15 Dec 2004 at 16:34. |
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15 Dec 2004, 16:40 (Ref:1180266) | #59 | |
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thanks....
I know a fair bit about racing.. but i wasnt going into what i know who i know and who i dont.... etc etc, too many people on here lord there point of view.. Simple points written in simple terms were made following viewing F1 from the late 70's early 80's.... As said time after time on this site and others technolgy has ruined things, simplify what an F1 cars are allowed to be and it will produce better racing at lower costs, they keep changing the rules but is it going to get us anyway.. 2005 rules do sound like an improvement especially if ant compared it to a FFord... |
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15 Dec 2004, 17:07 (Ref:1180297) | #60 | |
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ok,,... edgy.. the limit is too knife edge, underbraking, with such small braking areas how can you expect to find an edge, double the breaking zones twice as much distance to be making a move, or get out of a move or control the braking, it sounds like in 2005 braking control will be more an issue rather than jumping on the anchers.
Knife edge.. the cars can't handle any real sort of a slide they carry so much speed into the corners they are are on the absolute edge the second you come off the brakes where as back in the day it was more about taking the car to the edge on the exxit of a corner on the power, two different styles or driving 2 differnt style of cars from two different eras but which bring the better racing.. the skill now a days is getting the car to apex buy carrying loads od spead in thereofre buggering up the guy with the impossible task of either following close or getting up the inside. anyway.. i know what i mean even if i cant get it down.. They may be knife edge but there still easy to drive. |
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15 Dec 2004, 17:13 (Ref:1180302) | #61 | |
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I can't believe the car is easy to drive.
We're now in a period where it is harder than almost any point in F1's recent history for a rookie to jump in and be competitive. |
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15 Dec 2004, 17:20 (Ref:1180313) | #62 | ||
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15 Dec 2004, 17:29 (Ref:1180320) | #63 | |||||
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15 Dec 2004, 17:54 (Ref:1180343) | #64 | ||
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15 Dec 2004, 20:29 (Ref:1180501) | #65 | |
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It now seems that if either Michelin or Bridgestone produce a tyre that is only slightly inferior to the opposition it will make a big difference during the race,here's hoping they both get it right.If Bridgestone get it right keep an eye on Minardi and Jordan, and watch Ferrari disappear.
Last edited by Marbot; 15 Dec 2004 at 20:30. |
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16 Dec 2004, 13:20 (Ref:1181059) | #66 | |
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Additional thoughts on what it's like to drive a 2005 spec car from "Ant", read at www.f1racing.net It seems that the tyres will be the limiting factor,not aero or engine power,good news for lesser teams and Racing in general.
Last edited by Marbot; 16 Dec 2004 at 13:30. |
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19 Dec 2004, 17:22 (Ref:1183262) | #67 | ||
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19 Dec 2004, 18:28 (Ref:1183312) | #68 | |
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I think the level of "racing" will go up with the changes.
Drivers will have to be drivers - plan corners - brake earlier - control the trottle better. The cars will not be so 'glued' to the track. I am looking forward to a great season, personally. Oh yeah, by the way, M$ took an early '80s F1 car around a track a couple of years ago. Upon climbing out of the car, he said, "That was exciting, and quite dangerous." What he was really saying was that it required more to drive when you have to use one foot for brakes and clutch, shift gears manually while driving with one hand on the wheel - in a turn - and all of that when the tires and aero-dynamics did little to stick the car to the track. Last edited by f1atic; 19 Dec 2004 at 18:32. |
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Life is not a spectator sport! |
20 Dec 2004, 10:34 (Ref:1183770) | #69 | ||
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I would happy to see a lot of spin an surprises. I hope its not dangerous.
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Montoya, what just happened? |
20 Dec 2004, 10:45 (Ref:1183785) | #70 | |||
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No need to put words into TGF's mouth (who gets paid more $ than anyone else because he is better, but still races for fun). |
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Brum brum |
1 Jan 2005, 20:24 (Ref:1191212) | #71 | |
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Dantly,
I know what u mean mate. U know ur stuff fella |
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1 Jan 2005, 20:35 (Ref:1191225) | #72 | ||
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I'm not sure you've helped Dantly's case there!
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Brum brum |
1 Jan 2005, 20:38 (Ref:1191231) | #73 | |
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i knowwhat he ment
He is a very knowledgeable person |
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2 Jan 2005, 00:14 (Ref:1191338) | #74 | ||
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They are easy to drive yes, within the limits. But near or at the limit, they become unpredictable, as on a knifes edge... So i don't see where the contradiction is. |
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2 Jan 2005, 11:35 (Ref:1191519) | #75 | |
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I think that what's trying to be said is that it's very easy to drive the car up to 99% of it's potential(for an f1 driver that is) but very difficult thereafter,and it's this ability to drive the car at 100% for as long as possible that is the key to the whole thing, and it's this that sperates TGF from everyone else.Read my sig.
Last edited by Marbot; 2 Jan 2005 at 11:41. |
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