[LM24] Lamborghini considering Le Mans options

[Deleted]

When the GT2 Corvette was forced to downside from 6 liters to the new maximum* capacity of 5,5 liters (*maximum unless your name was Viper), that engine conf did not exist in their product catalog at that point. So couldn't Lambo just do similar sort of thing...

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Chiana

When the GT2 Corvette was forced to downside from 6 liters to the new maximum* capacity of 5,5 liters (*maximum unless your name was Viper), that engine conf did not exist in their product catalog at that point. So couldn't Lambo just do similar sort of thing...

Displacement would be easy... cylinder count is another story...

[carbon_titanium]

surely they will obtain a waiver to use V10, maybe destroked to 5.0 like the first model of gallardo. Clearly a V10 can't be turned in a V8...
or in alternative, if am I not wrong the bentley gt3 uses the audi TFSI 4.0 V8 twin turbo rebadged as bentley, VAG could take the audi NA 4.0 V8, enlarge it to 4.4 and rebadge it as lamborghini, dimensions and proportions should be similiar to the nissan unit, so wouldn't be required any chassis update for already produced LMP2 models.
Afterall audi R8 and S8 use the lamborghini V10 rebadged as audi... in a large family each one help each other

[Deleted]

Or they just take the lazy route like many and rebrand existing P2 engine as Lamborghini. Really hope not.

It's one thing to have fake car names supposedly presenting obscure little manufacturers like Morgan or Ligier or Alpine or Lotus or whatever, but when you start having BIG names being brought to the table it starts to get ridiculous very soon. SARD with "Toyota" is gonna be bad enough

[Aysedasi]

Been around a long time though (not that I like it either). I well remember the (rather beautiful and great sounding) 'Mazda' that ran in 1992 at Le Mans which was actually a Jaguar powered by a Judd engine......

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by carbon_titanium

surely they will obtain a waiver to use V10, maybe destroked to 5.0 like the first model of gallardo. Clearly a V10 can't be turned in a V8...
or in alternative, if am I not wrong the bentley gt3 uses the audi TFSI 4.0 V8 twin turbo rebadged as bentley, VAG could take the audi NA 4.0 V8, enlarge it to 4.4 and rebadge it as lamborghini, dimensions and proportions should be similiar to the nissan unit, so wouldn't be required any chassis update for already produced LMP2 models.
Afterall audi R8 and S8 use the lamborghini V10 rebadged as audi... in a large family each one help each other

Would fitting a V10 into a chassis designed for V8s and smaller be a problem?

[carbon_titanium]

I don't know the exact sizes of the lambo V10, in theory a V10 should have bigger dimensions than a V8, but repeat just in theory. Actually maybe the lambo V10 can be fitted in the oreca/morgan/ligier/zytek etc... chassis or maybe not.
Anyway the xjr-14 was a TWR car powered by a cosworth engine.

[chernaudi]

The Audi 4.2/4.0T V8, 3.0T V6, and 5.0/5.2 V10 are related engines.

Audi/VW got the V6 by cutting two cylinders off the 4.2 V8, the 5.0/5.2 V10 came from adding to cylinders to the V8. The engines share the same basic designs aside from changed made to accommodate more or less cylinders.

The Audi V8 and it's related designs, IMO, does make the Ford "Modular" motor name seem like child's play; Modular refers to SOHC vs DOHC heads on the Ford V8, though they did make a 6.8 V10 for large trucks out of it.

But since the engine has to be an Audi/Lamborghini design, they'll probably use the V10 de-stroked to 5.0 liters and get an ACO waiver on the number of cylinders.

That is unless Lamborghini is planning on running a V8 engined car in the near future, and one downside of the Audi V8 design is that it's an undersquare engine to make it shorter to accommodate the quattro AWD system in Audi cars and SUVs. Hence, to boost capacity, it's easier to add cylinders or resort to forced induction to boost power and durability.

And right now, without a waiver from the ACO, Lamborghini has no engine that will suit the ACO's regs unless they use a 2.8 liter turbocharged version of the Audi 3.0 supercharged V6, or an NA version of the Audi 4.0 twin turbo V8, or the old NA 4.2 and try and bump them up to 4.5 or so liters (5.0 might be a stretch with the Audi V8 in it's current configuration, especially though a bore increase).

And, of course, rebadge it as a Lamborghini, just as Jaguar rebadged the Ford HB V8 as their own, and Mazda (with some help from Ford, Jaguar, TWR and Oreca) rebadged a Judd V10 as their own.

Personally, seeing what I've written, I'd rate a Lambo GTE/GT2 car coming out more likely than a LMP2 engine, that is without strings being pulled. And I'll also bet that if Volkswagen Group and Lamborghini want a Lambo-badged LMP2 engine, some strings will be pulled.

[Deleted]

So we've now seen the entry lists and nothing resembling Lambo's name appeared in LMP2. Oh well.

I guess they could've (and could still) just cheap-rebranded some old Judd or something if they really wanted, it's not like there's shortage of that going on.

Also, this was announced earlier and posted here on another thread by TF110, but Giorgio Sanna ie the person who first started talking about these LMP possibilities, has been promoted as the head of Lamborghini Sport. Previously he was "just" motorsports coordinator in addition to test driver. So maybe his LMP1 dreams may live on and within couple of years something materializes after all. We can always dream can we?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Chiana

So we've now seen the entry lists and nothing resembling Lambo's name appeared in LMP2. Oh well.

I guess they could've (and could still) just cheap-rebranded some old Judd or something if they really wanted, it's not like there's shortage of that going on.

Also, this was announced earlier and posted here on another thread by TF110, but Giorgio Sanna ie the person who first started talking about these LMP possibilities, has been promoted as the head of Lamborghini Sport. Previously he was "just" motorsports coordinator in addition to test driver. So maybe his LMP1 dreams may live on and within couple of years something materializes after all. We can always dream can we?

One can hope - but we all know that it's not the Head of Sports activities who decides the start of a new program, it's not finance department.

[Deleted]

This is two months old but I only now noticed it, it is mostly Atherton-esque politically correct answering but for what it's worth:

You have been interviewed in the recent past and LMP1 racing has been mentioned as a potential future direction. Lamborghini were also present at the Daytona meeting in January that discussed the future of LMP2 – Is any of that in the future vision for the brand?

“It is very difficult to say. As a newly established department we re listening to and looking at ALL of the potential scenarios but there is a difference between the future plans and options for our long-term commitment to a presence in motorsport and our current and medium term strategies.

“Any discussion about any possibility for a programme beyond GT3 will have to wait until all of the future rule sets are finalised. Only then will we look to evaluate what makes sense for us.

“At the moment I want to again repeat that we are focused ONLY on the customer racing activities and would evaluate only opportunities that are related to that area.

“The coming months will see some news on what is happening with the ACO/ FIA rules and what I hope is that the three main ‘actors’ IMSA, ACO and FIA find a way for the racing categories, in general at the very least, to be aligned. The situation in recent years with GT3, GTD, GTLM, GTE and more besides does not work in anyone’s best interests.

“With or without any future Lamborghini factory programme we are here to put the Lamborghini brand at a high level in motorsport.”

---

Finally – Le Mans? There must be a desire to take Lamborghini there?

“Firstly – I have huge respect for the event, one of the great races of any sort in the world.

“In the future we will see – Our target is to arrive at the pinnacle of motorsport that is relevant to what we produce and what makes sense for us. GT programmes make sense for us in that regard and we will look at it if and when it makes sense to do so.

“If the question is whether I have thought about racing at Le Mans the answer is yes, I started doing that about 20 years ago before I ever worked for Lamborghini (laughs)!

Obviously, whatever there theoretically could have been in LMP2 is pretty dead, if there ever even was anything (unless they want some branding for US market for some reason), and with GTE & GT3 continuing basically the same the structure hasn't changed to one direction or another. The LMP1 is the question mark, even if very unlikely with other VAG brands there and Lambo's non-history.

Meanwhile, and this is bit off, but in this week old article he repeats of there not being works Lamborghini teams of any kind [in GT3]. However, you can find some witty remarks towards JLOC / Reiter and co in the past decade

[rich07]

I would not call the people working at Reiter doing it as a second job....they have done very well without any factory support. JLOC on the other hand yeah that would fit the second job description.

[Deleted]

Well we don't really know who is he referring to with such vague use of words.

For JLOC, it was more of holiday than actual work, even second job, it's a hobby club you know Yes I know they aren't half bad in Super GT but that's different

Anyway at Abu Dhabi 2010 GT1 opening weekend, I somehow remember the 'head of Lamborghini', or some other big Italian boss of theirs being there on the grid praising stuff Reiter had done. But my memory might fail me.

[TF110]

Hope they make a Huracan GTE, that would be so great to see. They might be in TUSC next year, so we'll see.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Well we don't really know who is he referring to with such vague use of words.

For JLOC, it was more of holiday than actual work, even second job, it's a hobby club you know Yes I know they aren't half bad in Super GT but that's different

Anyway at Abu Dhabi 2010 GT1 opening weekend, I somehow remember the 'head of Lamborghini', or some other big Italian boss of theirs being there on the grid praising stuff Reiter had done. But my memory might fail me.

Yeah JLOC really are a hobby team, weirdly enough they do seem semi professional in super GT for whatever reasons.

I remember Stephane Winkelmann being on the grid at Abu Dhabi in 2010 with the Reiter guys so your memory is all good .

Strangely enough I remember too one of the Lambo teams having chandeliers and leather couches in their pit garage....

[urdragon]

Well, I think it's clear refers to JLOC or before!!.

Anyway, if they did, I want see them selling as many cars as the allmost 80-hundred Reiter sold, in the next decade. Asuming their low price tag it is caused by a shared investment with Audi, not a trading-marketing effort by them, inhouse.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by rich07

Yeah JLOC really are a hobby team, weirdly enough they do seem semi professional in super GT for whatever reasons.

With JLOC it's even more mysterious, since on top of the Super GT success, when they ran those Lambos in Asia's ACO sanctioned competition, they weren't half bad there either!

In the 2006 All-Japan Le Mans Challenge, they only did two races, SUGO which ended up in retirement due to suspension failure, but in Okayama 1000KM, they placed 3rd overall of 20 starters and won the GT1 class. While they didn't enter in 2007, they had two cars in the AsLMS Okayama 1000KM in 2009 against a Saleen and DBR9, and they won the first race in class and placed second in the second race (ahead of all GT2s), earning them the "series win" and auto invite. Then in the 2010 ILMC/AsLMS Zhuhai 6 hours, they got the GT1 pole and ahead of all GT2s and GT3s (which was kind of miracle when you look at that class that year, honestly). And okay they retired almost immediately but it wasn't total shambles weekend.

So they only sucked at Le Mans. And even there only 2007 and 2009 could be classified as "total and utter crap", in 2006 while not officially classified they achieved 283 laps (much more than Nissan this year!), and in 2010 they did 138 laps and around halfway through. Though the chassis from Reiter was brand new which may explain it enduring so far in that last race