World Rallycross R1 - Barcelona, Spain

[pettersolberg29]

The one positive for VW is it seems that they'll be front-runners and so won't have too many cars in front of them throwing dirt up or to hit from behind! Should keep the front end safer!

[tbtstt]

I really hope we get some insight into the Polo. Volkswagen Motorsport aren't daft and they even talk about the GRC cars in the video that was linked earlier in this thread, so they must be aware of the nature of rallycross and the sort of forces the cars are subject to: I am assuming they have some pretty solid reasoning for keeping the entire cooling package up front.

The decision certainly doesn't seem to have affected the pace of the cars: they looked as quick (and as nimble) as any of their rivals.

[chunder]

But the VW's were hardly slow last year or since they were introduced were they, and they now have probably the best driver, so it is hardly a shock.

I would think this is because the car ie VERY similar to the WRC car and they want to keep it as close as they can as they know that works very well, it also sounds like a 1.6 but I somehow doubt that.

[Silhuette]

We already know that the engine is similar to the Beetle running in that other RX series. It is doing very well there too. They were accused of cheating due to the excellent starts of that car.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by Silhuette

We already know that the engine is similar to the Beetle running in that other RX series. It is doing very well there too. They were accused of cheating due to the excellent starts of that car.

Yeah, that accusation concerned engine management rather than the engine itself.

Originally Posted by Chunder

I would think this is because the car ie VERY similar to the WRC car and they want to keep it as close as they can as they know that works very well, it also sounds like a 1.6 but I somehow doubt that.

That's a fair point: if the weight distribution is similar to the WRCar then I guess a lot more of the data accumulated from the WRC team will be usable.

Not sure how relevant it really is in rallycross, but VW Motorsport (and Hoonigan/M-Sport), must have quite a lot of accumulated data on aero as well.

[Silhuette]

Good points. About the aero, I see people argue aero isn't important due to the low speeds in RX - but these are really powerful cars so drag isn't a big deal. I'd think trading drag for as much downforce as possible would work really well in RX.

Did anything come of the accusations of illegal traction control in the Beetle ECU? I remember some freakishly fast starts. No issue here with the spec ECU.

[chunder]

MSport only maybe with data, as obviously they use a different model.

I think the Focus they race uses the old WRC engine, you can tell by the engine note, as the old Focus WRC car had a flat engine note like the new Focuses do, and Blocks old Fiesta used that engine too.

VW basically have a shedload of stuff lying around that anyone with the money could use, and that happened to be Solberg and Tommy K's team.

It's as simple as that I think,

[crossfades]

Aero had a difference in Barcelona if one is to believe to EKS. Ekström had the bigger wing at first but changed it to a smaller one and didn't change back. Nitiss and Heikkinen however had the bigger wing all weekend.

The boxed wheel arches are getting quite regular so aero has definitely increased in importance. According to a close friend of mine aero can make a difference already at 60 kph.

[chunder]

Aero can make a difference at any speed as long as the win is big enough and positioned correctly.

I watch a lot of oval motorsport, and even on short ovals people scoff at the effectiveness of wings.

Until you talk to a driver and they tell you how different it feels if they damage a wing and can't run with it.

They can adapt of course as the feel is only part of the racing in a contact sport on a low speed oval on dirt.

But even in the mid 90's when they were running F1 cast-off stuff wings at the back and splitters at the front it made a difference.

Aero has been in rallycross for a long time, just at varying levels. Schanche. Jernberg, Eklund were all running old F1 car wings on their cars in 95. and major splitters etc up front.

[Silhuette]

Aero has been in RX for a long time, but when EKS built their Audi S1 their designers said they built the car to look right and didn't pay any attention to aero.

Then there was a Ford Motorsport film this winter, where we could see some CFD visualizations and an aero engineer scroll through what looked like twenty iterations of a WRC style rear wing.

I'm not calling EKS anything but professional, but I think professional engineers from other areas of the sport are bringing in new levels of sophistication to the sport. This is a good trend!

[chunder]

No it isn't.

Why? because aero means wind tunnels, and even more money, CFD engineers, huge software inputs and vast expense.

If you want WRX to go from basically a rich privateer run sport to full factory within 5 years fair enough.

But were will you be 5 years after when WRC has come back, is getting good again and is far more controlled and relevant to manufacturers.

IMG are making hay right now due to F1 being garbage and WRC being fairly poor, but WRC has a bit of impetus behind it with the new rules. And some PROPER manufacturers behind it, not two bit dealer teams like WRX.

It's all a good thing, but rallycross has made a quantum leap, with absolutely no care for anything but profit.

That can only be good long term if that is looked after and IMG don't give a monkeys about anything but WRX obviously. And making money.

MotoGP, a far. far bigger series dumped aero last year for the same reason, cost.

So be careful what you wish for lad.

Speedway under their control has stagnanted a little recently, and rallycross will aswell, it can only go so far.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by Silhuette

Then there was a Ford Motorsport film this winter, where we could see some CFD visualizations and an aero engineer scroll through what looked like twenty iterations of a WRC style rear wing.

Yep, that clip is what led to my thoughts about possible aero gains/advantages!

I think it's unarguable that the cars have made a leap forward in the last few years - and it's brilliant to see the current cars being taken as far as possible - but, with the current balance between works/private teams, I do think Chunder has a point with regards to spiralling costs.

Originally Posted by Silhuette

Did anything come of the accusations of illegal traction control in the Beetle ECU? I remember some freakishly fast starts. No issue here with the spec ECU.

Unknown. I didn't see anything further on the matter (at least in the public domain) and, as the GRC regulations aren't available to the public, it's impossible to say if the GRC introduced any measures to control ECU/software usage.

As you say, the ECU/software regulations in the World Championship should prevent that from ever becoming an issue.

[mivec]

Originally Posted by chunder

The moment one of them retires with a blown rad after inevitably hitting someone.

Things might change

Ten years ago almost every supercar / division 1 car had a longitudinal mounted
engine...
We can see other soluties are working also!

[chunder]

The only reason the engine config never changed was config, nothing more.

Just much easier back then, transmissions and everything were far cheaper and developed with long engines. it took big money to develop a decent rallycross spec transmission.

These cras develop mroe power than most stuff transmission is developed for.

[tbtstt]

Uploaded some pictures from Barcelona. Few of my faves...











...few more at the following link if anyone is interested!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/229616...57682445566686

Going back to our earlier conversation Silhuette...

Originally Posted by Silhuette

Funny how we seem to have such different impressions of the Polo's in flight characteristics I might just be remembering what suits me.

...this is what I saw which made me think that the Polo was nose heavy:



I have a number of pictures of Johan and Petter both coming down like this. The only other Supercar consistently landing on the nose like this was Andrea Dubourg after he lost his rear wing!

[The Eye]

Thanks Steve, great pictures from an excellent photographer

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by The Eye

Thanks Steve, great pictures from an excellent photographer

Thanks for the kind words! I was rather anxious about shooting in Spain, but I'm really pleased with how some of the pictures came out.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by The Eye

Thanks Steve, great pictures from an excellent photographer

Sorry to say but the first photo isn't really sharp.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Sorry to say but the first photo isn't really sharp.

I'm really not a fan of the new Hoonigan livery: it's permanently out of focus!

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

I'm really not a fan of the new Hoonigan livery: it's permanently out of focus!

It's not a fiesta to see this Hoonigan Focus.

[Silhuette]

Thanks for sharing your excellent pics - really nice use of shutter and movement to capture speed and energy!

The Polo surely looks a touch front heavy 😁