Rnd 2 Long Beach Event Thread (Race Spoilers)

[Muzza]

Figge's crash was shown on replay here in the United States. It looked like he braked very late to Turn 9 and understeered. He crashed front-first against the wall at an angle of about 70 degrees. As reported above, the good signs is that he was conscious during the rescue operation and waved to the crowd when being moved on a stretcher into an ambulance.

On a happier tone, attendance at Long Beach today seemed to have been better than the two last editions of the race.

[Snrub]

Yeah the attendance did look good.

I only caught the second half of the race (darn it). I was a little surprised how everyone Tag, Wilson, Power, Simon were all bunch up and unable to do anything. Tag looked like he was having some issues. It was odd because the whole purpose of the new car was to make that possible. Maybe they were all trying to save fuel? Then on the last lap they prove that it was possible to pass. Power and Wilson didn't make banzai moves, they made clean and professional passes. That's what CC is all about. I felt a little sorry for Tag, but I was glad Power finished in 3rd.

Man it was annoying to see Bourdais out front. At least Power is still ahead in the championship. Those 9 points Bourdais received for crashing out in Vegas were pretty significant to the championship. This year I don't care who the driver is, I'd like to see Power in front of them. No more Bourdais show! ...Although the manner in which Bourdais won today leaves little doubt as to his ability.

What was with everyone cruising behind Grommendy? Everyone was going really slow at that point. Were they unable to pass? I was really surprised at the Bourdais to Servia gap and the fact that Bourdais left plenty of room between himself and Grommendy.

The last two restarts were kind of appaling. Virtually no one was bunched up or reacted well. Where did the drivers think they were, F1?

I know its only Graham Rahal's second race, but considering how fast Bourdais was, Rahal was pretty darn slow. I'm not writing him off or anything, it's just that I think most people expected more of him. I have my money on Simon for the rookie of the year honours. He's been quick enough that I think he can beet Jani and Doornbos. It's a shame that Simon messed up towards the end.

[mountainstar]

Someone on another forum said that power and wilson still had some P2P on that last lap while tag was all out and that helped facilitate the passes for both.

Bourdais knew Gommendy was going to have to pit for fuel, so I think he just let it go.

Bourdais is a smart operator and his restarts showed his experience and prowess.

I've thought since last year, Pagenaud is a much better driver than Rahal, for the moment anyways. I think it's become clear that all the jibber jabber about rahal being this unbelievable talent was wrong and he still has a long way to go before he realizes the expectations that both he has and others have as well. While confidence is a great thing, I find him a bit "smug", which is a turn off. The advantage that Rahal has is Bourdais on his team. Bourdais, while personally irritating at times as well, is the schumacher of champcar, very consistant lap after lap and a smart, multi tasking driver. Rahal would do well to watch and observe him.

[marcel82]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Someone on another forum said that power and wilson still had some P2P on that last lap while tag was all out and that helped facilitate the passes for both.

after the restart Bourdais had 47s, Servia had 12, and Tag had 4. they all were using it all over the front straight when the pace car came in, so I guess that makes that Tag ran out with a lap to go...
Commentators said Tag was real triggerhappy with that button throughout the race, can't keep of it. this is what you get then

[JohnSSC]

The track layout at Long Beach facilitates folks running in bunches. I think we got spoiled by Vegas last week!

I am a bit concerned about the accidents with PT and Figge. Neither (especially PT) were going that fast. Both were nose-in type accidents. I wonder if there is something in the way the car is designed where the energy from the crash is transmitted back through the chassis rather than being dissipated.

Thumbs up to Servia for saying during the post-race interview (and I paraphrase) "When will it (doing well in the race) get me any notice from the teams?"

He should not have been looking for rides at this stage of the season.

[Hazard]

Figge's got the all clear. Nothing broken.

www.pcmracing.com

[cptkablamo]

Once my Champ Car race director started to work...missed first 20 odd laps...its was a good race, not as good as Vegas but better than the last few Long Beaches...
Dunno what happened to Tag...was it as simple as running out of push to pass???
Good to see Power getting another podium
And yes they will have to look at front and front corner crashes cause it seems odd that injuries like this have happened in those sorts of crashes

[Snrub]

Graham is a bit arrogant. I know he's important to the series, but he's been getting too much hype. I can't help but not forget how in Star Mazda he talked about how US OW wasn't of interest (basically because it sucked) and how sports cars were the way to go.

It's interesting, this weekend Dario Franchetti was 4 seconds off the Champ Car pole. What you say? Of course that's in the ALMS LMP2 Acura. That's only two seconds off the back of the grid. Granted, I imagine that gap would be larger on a non-street course.

[marcel82]

comparing laptimes to judge series doesn't make sense at all.
an F1 car would be faster round Long Beach then the DP01. would this make CC suck compared to F1?

a DTM car goes slower round Spa then a LMP2 car. DTM sucks?


laptimes don't matter, is the on-track action that does.

[Purist]

From the NBC coverage, it sounded like it was the vertical motion and impact that caused Tracy's injury, not the initial wall impact.

[norman-normal]

The stated prime objective of the DP01 " to allow the cars to follow more closely with out the dangerous air currents" seems to be working.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Purist

From the NBC coverage, it sounded like it was the vertical motion and impact that caused Tracy's injury, not the initial wall impact.

The crash struck me as very strange indeed. It must have just been an awkward landing, because there was practically zero force in the impact or the landing.

I really would hate to see what will happen if someone actually crashes one of these things badly...

[Purist]

I'd guess it just landed at the perfect angle to do that. That there were no other real injuries in the first two events would seem to indicate that. There's always something weird that can happen that no one really anticipated.

I'm studying to be a civil engineer, so know a few things about structural failures.

[mountainstar]

It was the force coming down which did it. People have sustained back injuries from less force than what Tracy experienced.

Sit in a chair and have someone drop you 8 feet to the ground. That might give some idea of the feeling.

[Purist]

I believe the producer of and main driver in the original "Gone in 60 Seconds" movie permanently hurt his back in the "jump" during filming of the big chase scene.

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by Purist

I believe the producer of and main driver in the original "Gone in 60 Seconds" movie permanently hurt his back in the "jump" during filming of the big chase scene.

Yes, H.B. Halicki injured ten vertebrae during that jump and, according to people who knew him, never walked the same again. I guess Halicki could take some, uhm, pride - if he was still alive - in knowing that he certainly put Tracy to shame when it came to the altitude though


As for Tracy I agree that the flat chassi-to-ground downward impact is what caused the injury. Had the car tilted ever so slightly, even by just a few degrees, to disperse the energy differently through the car the end result probably hadn't been the same.

[marcus]

Not a bad race once I got to see it

Im sort of glad I wasnt the only one Race Director crashed for (at least I know it wasnt a problem my end )


I have just managed to do the Prediction competition poins and Im totally exhausted now , I think I will return later to have a look at this

[norman-normal]

The position of a driver in a formula car can hardly be called "seated" they are nearly laying down with a web restraining belt between their legs. A compression fracture must have occurred due to a frontal impact.

[Snrub]

Does anyone know the ratings?

[D70s]

The seating position in the DP01 is a lot more upright than it was in the Lola. I think Jon Beekhuis mentioned this during the NBC broadcast. It did kind of disturb me how the nose didn't deform very much in the impact though.

[Purist]

Well, you can't have it deform very much, otherwise you'll take the driver's legs out. That is, unless the front end of the Panoz is noticeably longer than I'm thinking it is.

[Snrub]

In a SpeedTV article PT refered to the accident as a 35mph incident. The only part of the nose that is suppose to crunch is the nose cone section. Keep in mind that it has to be able to hit a wall concrete wall at 180mph and absorb energy. A structure that collapses with a 35mph impact is not going to absorb enough energy at 180mph.

The seating position brings up an interesting question. If you look at early 90s champ cars they appear to be sitting very upright. As the cars evolved they seemed to lie down more. Was this for safety? Recall that the sides were raised around the driver for additional protection.

[icemachine]

In the article, he stated he had more room than in the Lola, I'm wondering if he wasn't held as rigidly as he should be, that is, it was the second hit of his body against the seat that caused the injury, not the initial stress traveling through.

[Charlies]

Perhaps it's just one of those odd incidents where a low speed crash causes an injury, but it's interesting to read the Wikipedia entry on the DP01. While it's not always the most reliable source, it says the driver is sitting more upright to reduce the chances of a back injury in the Panoz.

Surely the vertical motion caused the compression fracture, and wouldn't that have been caused by the energy from the frontal impact not being sufficiently dissipated. Does anyone know what crash tests the chassis underwent?

Hopefully it was a freak incident because with CCWS racing on so many street courses, that isn't the last impact with a concrete barrier we'll see this season.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Snrub

In a SpeedTV article PT refered to the accident as a 35mph incident. The only part of the nose that is suppose to crunch is the nose cone section. Keep in mind that it has to be able to hit a wall concrete wall at 180mph and absorb energy. A structure that collapses with a 35mph impact is not going to absorb enough energy at 180mph.

The seating position brings up an interesting question. If you look at early 90s champ cars they appear to be sitting very upright. As the cars evolved they seemed to lie down more. Was this for safety? Recall that the sides were raised around the driver for additional protection.

A few things here need to be clarified.

1. A 180 mph crash that a driver survives is because the force is displaced in different directions, in other words the initial impact with the wall may only be 35-40mph going inwards with the car and the car continuing to slide sideways 150mph or so. For 180 mph straight on impacts see Gordon Smiley's accident at indy in 1982 or Paul Dana's accident or Dale Earnharts accident. For additional information on this you can consult the General Motors studies from the mid 90's regarding indycar racing and the data they gathered.

2. What happened in PT's accident was that when the car rode up on the wall and came back down again the suspension had broken and the tire(s) were not there to take some of the forces off. Also he came down directly flat, similar for instance to driving head on into a wall. There is nothing to displace the forces sideways. Again to get a feeling, sit in a carbon fibre seat from any open wheel car and have someone drop you on your butt from 10 ft up.

The whole key to accidents is to displace forces in different directions. Unfortunately, you cannot prevent or forsee every eventuality that may happen.