[WEC Race] 2013 FIA WEC - Round 6 - 6 Hours of Fuji

[TF110]

Off at 100R, the super fast right hander. You hit a wall or tire barrier there its game over in the race. Fortunately for them it was only first practice.

[Mal]

You can see why it needed a rebuild:

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/fuj...-2-accidentee/

[airbusA346]

Originally Posted by TF110

Theyre pretty close. The Vantage is 1225kg, the Ferrari is 1235kg and the 991 Porsche is 1210kg. Each now has 90 liter tanks except Ferrari at 85L. Vantage has 29.4mm restrictor Porsche has 29.3mm Ferrari has 28.3mm. The pdf doesnt show the wheel width ruling, though

I am sure the 991 has had a wing height adjustment too.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Mal

You can see why it needed a rebuild:

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/fuj...-2-accidentee/

Extensive damage

The #2 car has already done 39 laps in practice 2. Nice work from the Audi crew repairing the car in the 3 hours between practice 1 and 2.

BTW the 4 manufacturer cars are within 0.1 sec at the moment. That means that Toyota has very good chance to win the race: they can match the pace of the Audis and they have their fuel consumption advantage.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by Mal

You can see why it needed a rebuild:

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/fuj...-2-accidentee/

Well done to the Audi guys for rebuilding the car.

[gwyllion]

A quick comparison of the long runs in practice 2:

• Audi #1 (Fassler): 29 laps, 1:28.958 average lap time
• Toyota #7 (Nakajima): 33 laps, 1:29.148 average lap time

That does not look good for Audi at the moment. 0.2 sec per lap is not enough to make up for the extra pitstop.

[Eryk03]

Where? For the moment I see 0.644 gap between the fastest Audi and the fastest Toyota.
Respoct for Audi, they rebuild almost whole car and did the best time.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Eryk03

Where? For the moment I see 0.644 gap between the fastest Audi and the fastest Toyota.
Respoct for Audi, they rebuild almost whole car and did the best time.

Read what he said, he said AVERAGE laptime over a full stint.

[gwyllion]

It is irrelevant that Audi is faster over a single lap. This only gets them another pole position. Consistency over a complete stint and the ability to double stint the tyres are far more important for the race.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Times will obviously improve by the time we get to qualifying practice and the race. The average lap times indeed suggest that Audi may potentially face a hard time.

Looking at the Best Sector Times of FP2, it looks like the Audi are losing time in the first sector (approx. two tenths). The top speed measured on the straight is similar though. I would have expected the Toyotas and Audis to be closer in that first sector. There is maybe room for improvement on Audi's side in sector 1.

Funnily, the Audis are marginally faster in the last sector which is supposed to be more to the advantage of the Toyotas.

[Simmi]

You can't hear it - but that's the sound of me rubbing my hands together in excitement ahead of Sunday's race.

That said, a wet race would change things completely...

[gwyllion]

McNish expects a very challenging battle with Toyota.

McNish believes that the Toyota TS030 HYBRID could have the upper hand over the Audi R18 e-tron quattro around the 2.84-mile Fuji Speedway.

"They definitely had the straightline speed in America and there is a very long straight at Fuji," he explained.

"The last sector suits them perfectly. It is stop-start and their car likes that much more than our car."

source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110687

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

A quick comparison of the long runs in practice 2:

• Audi #1 (Fassler): 29 laps, 1:28.958 average lap time
• Toyota #7 (Nakajima): 33 laps, 1:29.148 average lap time

That does not look good for Audi at the moment. 0.2 sec per lap is not enough to make up for the extra pitstop.

Originally Posted by gwyllion

It is irrelevant that Audi is faster over a single lap. This only gets them another pole position. Consistency over a complete stint and the ability to double stint the tyres are far more important for the race.

I am looking at the Chronological Analysis of FP2 and note that the #1 Audi did a 29-lap stint at the beginning of FP2 (laps 1-29). In Austin, on a track measuring 5.513 km, the Audis were able to do 24-lap / 25-lap stints. On the shorter Fuji track (4.563) I therefore expect the Audis to be able to do 29-lap / 30 lap stints. Assuming normal race conditions (no rain, no SC), we can assume that the race will take 230-240 laps to be completed. That would require 7, possibly 8 pit stops for the Audis.

The Toyota #7 apparently managed to do a 33-lap stint during FP2 (laps 9-41) which is pretty impressive compared to what the #8 was able to do at Austin (i.e. between 25 and 27 laps on a single tank of fuel). That could possibly allow the Toyotas do stop only 6 times, at most 7 times.

It's seem reasonable to expect that the Toyotas will manage to stop one time less than the Audis, "costing" the Audis something like 1min20sec to 1min30sec. A 0.2sec/lap advantage over the Toyotas will indeed not be sufficient for Audi, even if they double-stint their tires.

This race is going to be interesting.

[Rennen]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

McNish expects a very challenging battle with Toyota.
source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110687

Wakey, Wakey, Autosport Anthony's in #8 not #7 !

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

I am looking at the Chronological Analysis of FP2 and note that the #1 Audi did a 29-lap stint at the beginning of FP2 (laps 1-29). In Austin, on a track measuring 5.513 km, the Audis were able to do 24-lap / 25-lap stints. On the shorter Fuji track (4.563) I therefore expect the Audis to be able to do 29-lap / 30 lap stints. Assuming normal race conditions (no rain, no SC), we can assume that the race will take 230-240 laps to be completed. That would require 7, possibly 8 pit stops for the Audis.

The Toyota #7 apparently managed to do a 33-lap stint during FP2 (laps 9-41) which is pretty impressive compared to what the #8 was able to do at Austin (i.e. between 25 and 27 laps on a single tank of fuel). That could possibly allow the Toyotas do stop only 6 times, at most 7 times.

It's seem reasonable to expect that the Toyotas will manage to stop one time less than the Audis, "costing" the Audis something like 1min20sec to 1min30sec. A 0.2sec/lap advantage over the Toyotas will indeed not be sufficient for Audi, even if they double-stint their tires.

This race is going to be interesting.

NO!... ACO/FIA is transforming this in races where the important action happens on the pit boxes/lanes instead of the race track... instead of wins by whom is faster overall, is wins by whom is more fuel efficient no matter how slow it must be to get it, reminds of the reasons i stopped watching F1, they should give the titles of world champions to the mechanics not the drivers or constructors... disgusting! myopic beyond repair, or only to satisfy the oil barons now that the presssluts are propagating that a petrol engine is more economic than a diesel, when in fact they carry ~20liters more of fuel (not withstanding day to day car buyers may be lured)(sorry that is how i see it).

Can we please get everybody stops at a certain distance (nº of laps), no favorites, equal to everybody... and resume the race(carry enough fuel to be the fastest possible per stint, why not ? with fuel metrics this impacts *everything*) ? ... no more wins in the pits please, that is not motorsport... ACO/FIA ?

Considering the points you elaborate "MyNameIsNigel", don't forget that the rhythm/cadence of a race is slower than practice, and in traffic the advantage of diesel due to more acceleration power (torque) may be way more than 0.2sec per lap... while in the irrelevant power (hp) metric even most of top GTEs can have more than a Diesel... only Audi diesel is always cursing at the top max power and torque, between 3500 to 4500 rpm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD7qNujbr8E

(remarkable engineering, half the displacement half the number of cylinders, comparing with the big V12... almost the same speed overall !)

[Simmi]

Yeah when did endurance sportscar racing becoming about efficiency all of a sudden? Oh wait...

[TF110]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

I am looking at the Chronological Analysis of FP2 and note that the #1 Audi did a 29-lap stint at the beginning of FP2 (laps 1-29). In Austin, on a track measuring 5.513 km, the Audis were able to do 24-lap / 25-lap stints. On the shorter Fuji track (4.563) I therefore expect the Audis to be able to do 29-lap / 30 lap stints. Assuming normal race conditions (no rain, no SC), we can assume that the race will take 230-240 laps to be completed. That would require 7, possibly 8 pit stops for the Audis.

The Toyota #7 apparently managed to do a 33-lap stint during FP2 (laps 9-41) which is pretty impressive compared to what the #8 was able to do at Austin (i.e. between 25 and 27 laps on a single tank of fuel). That could possibly allow the Toyotas do stop only 6 times, at most 7 times.

It's seem reasonable to expect that the Toyotas will manage to stop one time less than the Audis, "costing" the Audis something like 1min20sec to 1min30sec. A 0.2sec/lap advantage over the Toyotas will indeed not be sufficient for Audi, even if they double-stint their tires.

This race is going to be interesting.

Toyota said they couldn't use the full amount of fuel in Austin. They left 1-2 laps on the table. So potentially they were able to go 27 laps at COTA. That would equal 148.5 km, divide that by 4.5km per Fuji lap and you get... 33 (laps per stint)

[kober]

Toyota might actually win this one, and do it based on merit alone, not by accident. It would be great for the championship (although, not neseccarily for this season) - I'm rooting for them wholeheartedly

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by TF110

Toyota said they couldn't use the full amount of fuel in Austin. They left 1-2 laps on the table. So potentially they were able to go 27 laps at COTA. That would equal 148.5 km, divide that by 4.5km per Fuji lap and you get... 33 (laps per stint)

Thanks for pointing that out.

[TF110]

Speed trap data...

[chernaudi]

If I'm Toyota, I'd be praying for a dry race, and even at that I'd also be hoping that Audi doesn't find another 4-5 tenths of a second between now and race day.

As it stands now, Toyota do, on paper at least, stand a reasonable chance to challenge, but if Audi find more speed, that'll damage Toyota's chances. And if it's a rain race, that could be the nail in the coffin for Toyota. We know that when Audi set up the R18 right, it should be better in the rain/mixed conditions than the Toyota.

The biggest issue that Toyota may have, though, is that they'll likely lose their fuel mileage advantage. Diesel engines are more economical on fuel at part throttle/no throttle. In the rain, you'll have a lot more of that than in the dry. We saw this at LM where Audi could eat into Toyota's fuel mileage advantage under the pace car periods and rainy/damp periods because of them being able to stretch their fuel out more than Toyota could under the same conditions.

Problem is that the probability of rain has increased since yesterday. TWC now says 90% chance of rain Sunday afternoon/evening.

If there's any dry running on Sunday, Toyota needs to take advantage of it, because if it rains, Audi will probably benefit from it a lot more than Toyota will.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

If I'm Toyota, I'd be praying for a dry race, and even at that I'd also be hoping that Audi doesn't find another 4-5 tenths of a second between now and race day.

As it stands now, Toyota do, on paper at least, stand a reasonable chance to challenge, but if Audi find more speed, that'll damage Toyota's chances. And if it's a rain race, that could be the nail in the coffin for Toyota. We know that when Audi set up the R18 right, it should be better in the rain/mixed conditions than the Toyota.

The biggest issue that Toyota may have, though, is that they'll likely lose their fuel mileage advantage. Diesel engines are more economical on fuel at part throttle/no throttle. In the rain, you'll have a lot more of that than in the dry. We saw this at LM where Audi could eat into Toyota's fuel mileage advantage under the pace car periods and rainy/damp periods because of them being able to stretch their fuel out more than Toyota could under the same conditions.

Problem is that the probability of rain has increased since yesterday. TWC now says 90% chance of rain Sunday afternoon/evening.

If there's any dry running on Sunday, Toyota needs to take advantage of it, because if it rains, Audi will probably benefit from it a lot more than Toyota will.

Toyota were fast in the rain at LeMans. Dont know why you assume its all Audi if it rains They still will take more stops. Maybe one less if it rains throughout, but the same may bode for Toyota?

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

If I'm Toyota, I'd be praying for a dry race, and even at that I'd also be hoping that Audi doesn't find another 4-5 tenths of a second between now and race day.

As it stands now, Toyota do, on paper at least, stand a reasonable chance to challenge, but if Audi find more speed, that'll damage Toyota's chances. And if it's a rain race, that could be the nail in the coffin for Toyota. We know that when Audi set up the R18 right, it should be better in the rain/mixed conditions than the Toyota.

The biggest issue that Toyota may have, though, is that they'll likely lose their fuel mileage advantage. Diesel engines are more economical on fuel at part throttle/no throttle. In the rain, you'll have a lot more of that than in the dry. We saw this at LM where Audi could eat into Toyota's fuel mileage advantage under the pace car periods and rainy/damp periods because of them being able to stretch their fuel out more than Toyota could under the same conditions.

Problem is that the probability of rain has increased since yesterday. TWC now says 90% chance of rain Sunday afternoon/evening.

If there's any dry running on Sunday, Toyota needs to take advantage of it, because if it rains, Audi will probably benefit from it a lot more than Toyota will.

No, diesels are more economic at all throttle regimes... for crying out loud! the advantage of Toyotas for this is that they can carry ~20 more liters of fuel per stint(sure ppl are not reminded *of the fact* by the *journalitists* reporting ), the additional weight is insignificant... specially full throttle where the Audis don't pass the 4500rpm, while the Toyotas goes near the 10K -> the more the rpm the more fuel you burn(what the sleazy sleekly oil barons like) ... but you have a point on the other parts...

OTOH in wet conditions the Toyotas have a better change to keep up with the pace of Audis and even surpass it... we saw that on LM to... specially this Audis that are engineered to pace near the max power/torque in all gear ratios, and that can be very tricky in wet, carrying all that torque around all the time you must be extra careful specially in slower corners... (slower than norm perhaps except with McNish that might go crazy... )

So i think Toyota will be very happy with wet conditions.

[TF110]

Well, Nakajima just did the best lap this weekend with a 1:27.117

[chernaudi]

We have to remember at LM that at the race start, Toyota gambled on running the treadless intermediates, while Audi ran on race slicks. In the full wet, Toyota certainly were no faster on equal tires.

And even with traction control, Toyota still have to deal with the hybrid system, which automatically kicks in 250-300bhp and god knows how much torque out of slow corners--not where you want to deal with that stuff. If the ASR fails or even if they have the wrong map selected, the TS030 will probably be a handful. Certainly at Silverstone Toyota had a hard time keeping up with Audi during the rain shower on slicks. Only a brief gamble on intermediates allowed them to un-lap themselves, and like at LM, that backfired, too.

Another thing that's disconcerting about Toyota is, that like all of this year when they run two cars, one is significantly faster than the other. If their fast car hits problems, can the team mate pick up the slack.