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5 Oct 2023, 15:43 (Ref:4179823) | #51 | |||
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If I picked any construction job of a similar scale, I'd probably find just as much court work to go alongside. There's nothing in this to suggest any issues for Andretti having a US-based F1 construction facility for use. |
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5 Oct 2023, 15:58 (Ref:4179828) | #52 | ||
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When looking at the posts from today/yesterday I was curious if there were any updates and if construction was stopped or not. The original article had a quote about the project will move forward (or something similar). But I found this article which is interesting... https://www.iniplaw.org/dillon-const...truction-team/ So as I mention above, Dillion is a design-build firm (my wife used to work for one like them). They combine the architecture (design) and construction (build) all in one package. So as Dillion says they have not received payment for prior work, they have sent cease and desist on construction (which has not stopped apparently), but the problem is that whoever is running the show now is apparently building a building designed by Dillion, but has not paid for the design. They are using the Dillion blueprints. So the additional lawsuit is around inappropriate use of Dillion IP (building/site design that Andretti doesn't yet own). So in short, sounds like construction is still ongoing, but this is a decently sized mess and could delay occupancy by Andretti if it hasn't already. As this drama has been ongoing for months, I wonder if Andretti has any backup plans for the short term. But I do agree that Peebee2 has a fair point as all is not well on the Andretti infrastructure side. I do think if this became an FIA/FOM roadblock, it would be resolved quickly by Andretti (its a money dispute). Richard |
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5 Oct 2023, 16:21 (Ref:4179833) | #53 | ||
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fair fair but hard to take a position on this based on a brief article just commenting on the nature of what the plaintiff alleges to have happened.
cant resist adding this as F1 fans, if we were just to accept claims made by those doing the suing then surely Massa deserves more of our support! |
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5 Oct 2023, 16:40 (Ref:4179839) | #54 | ||
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6 Oct 2023, 21:46 (Ref:4180075) | #55 | ||
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To be expected that we'd get some team reactions this weekend from Qatar:
Horner raises a few points, in particular whether buying an existing team is preferable to starting up from scratch, that GM should build its own engines - teams waiting on proposal from FOM re Andretti. Vowles makes it clear that Williams is strongly opposed to Andretti coming in but welcomes GM and would be happy to partner up with GM - the Piranha Club still in play! Drivers generally like the idea of another couple of driver positions but aware that team owners have a different view by & large. Wonder if we'll know by the end of this year or if it'll drag on into next year? |
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7 Oct 2023, 02:30 (Ref:4180110) | #56 | |||||
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The knives are very much out!
The irony from Horner is thick because you can make a strong argument that the Ford is probably mostly a badging effort for the RBPT effort. However I am sure both Ford and RBR will talk up Ford's contributions as it is a marketing exercise like everything in F1. Also, lets just ignore all of the teams like Williams, etc. that are using customer engines. That coming into F1 as a team should not require you to bring a new power unit manufacture! Quote:
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7 Oct 2023, 04:40 (Ref:4180115) | #57 | ||
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Did Vowles or Horner mention the race fans?
No, course they didn't. Unlike the teams, the race fan is guaranteed to make a financial loss, but would benefit from an additional team in terms of interest and entertainment. Sometimes the likes of Horner forgets why the sport exists and which group guarantees that existence by their often unwelcome presence. |
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7 Oct 2023, 09:00 (Ref:4180132) | #58 | |||
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Don't overlook the fact that as far as most, if not all, teams' principles believe that F1 is a business; they are not in the least concerned about "fans" because fans do not contribute financially in any significant measure. The teams rely on commercial sponsors and FOM for their income, although I do appreciate that firms such as Red Bull do, in theory, contribute to many "sports" to boost the sales of their products. However, I do believe that most sponsorship money comes from businesses that are corporate in that it is aimed at other corporate entities. That is why so many F1 race meetings take place in countries that, in reality, have very little "fan" interest; it's all aimed at the money people in those countries. And fans and/or spectators have been the losers for a long time with FOM, whether under Mr E or Liberty, have been constantly ramping up the race licence fees which, in turn, forces the local promoters to vastly increase admission prices! |
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7 Oct 2023, 13:47 (Ref:4180167) | #59 | |||
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I think the fans do contribute financially, though indirectly. One of the big issues IndyCar faced after series reunification in 2008, was dwindling track attendance and poor TV audiences. The latter was partly due to races being broadcast behind a pay wall. The overall result was a lack of sponsors and reduced TV advertising revenue. Advertisers/sponsors need a viewing audience and they don't want to see lots of empty seats on TV screens. Things have vastly improved since 2008. Most races are now FTA and NBC, who have the broadcasting contract, have reported increased viewing figures for 2023, up on the previous year. For the sake of argument what would happen F1 if there was a serious decline in track attendance and TV viewers? |
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7 Oct 2023, 14:04 (Ref:4180168) | #60 | |||
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I don't know about current TV audiences, however once TV went behind a paywall, both here in the UK and a number of European countries, the viewing figures dropped dramatically. Whether they have picked up, I know not. And yes indirectly, the the public do contribute when it comes to companies like Red Bull. But how many sponsors in F1 are actively involved in supplying their products to the general public? I would hazard a guess that it's not that many. And as for spectators numbers, I would imagine that they are still high in most if not all the European races, Australia and Japan. I wonder whether the numbers will be diluted in the USA, it having 3 races now; that's not a comment on whether they should have them, it's merely a thought that has crossed my mind. As for other races, a lot of them happen in countries that have no great racing pedigree and the Baku race has a huge lack of accommodation which restricts foreign spectators. |
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7 Oct 2023, 15:02 (Ref:4180178) | #61 | ||
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The sport doesn’t exist because of the fans. It exists because of the competitors wanting to do it. Two people with a car, let’s race. That is the desire the reason. The doing it in front of others is then the bit that puts these people in the position they are.
Lots of people watch it, there are fans, that is why directly, or indirectly, it is big and employees lots of people and some of these people have made a lot of money. Although some, of course, do lose a lot - “how to make millions in Motorsport…”. Those that lose are coming from the stock that made the sport exist. Being extremely popular does make it big bucks. Whether that is because people want to be involved to get eyes on their product, or just to be associated with it. Even the companies that are there just to be associated and aren’t selling directly to the great unwashed are there because it is big. That is opportunity, profile and the reason. |
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Brum brum |
7 Oct 2023, 15:27 (Ref:4180184) | #62 | |
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Very true. You shouldn’t try and cater for everyone. Nothing is going to remain popular forever. We’ve enjoyed quite a few popularity booms in F1, but too often we’ve lost sight of what F1 is supposed to be about. It’s a sport, not show business, but unfortunately that was forgotten and we’ve ended up with gimmicks like DRS
Anyway I digress |
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7 Oct 2023, 15:43 (Ref:4180188) | #63 | |||
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DRS was initially a means to solve a problem, drivers not be able to overtake, not a gimmick but it has become one. However, what has been a gimmick from the outset are the sprint races. Today's sprint shoot out is a good example of what you are talking about regarding show business. That's enough digression. |
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8 Oct 2023, 10:57 (Ref:4180416) | #64 | ||
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I also get annoyed when they say "but only if its a good team, we dont want another team running off the pace". That means nothing. Look at Williams, Hass Aston etc.... some years they run mid field (and how many WDC WCC have williams won) then they either find or lose their mojo a while and the order changes.
Very few teams start out near the front (Braun were an established team renamed) It might take 3 years or so to find their way.. a few years of embarrassment then suddenly winning everything Look at 888 history in Australian Supercars. They were the butt of jokes for years. So yeh a new team thats well off the pace is a possibility.... or one of the current teams could make a howling dog car one year and be way off the pace. Thats motorsport |
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Bathurst 1977, best day of my childhood Worst thing ever to happen to Ford Aust Motorsport. |
9 Oct 2023, 12:53 (Ref:4180670) | #65 | ||
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FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem wants more teams, citing F1's rules which allow for up to 12 teams.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/67051341 |
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9 Oct 2023, 22:17 (Ref:4180769) | #66 | |||
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11 Oct 2023, 22:41 (Ref:4181040) | #67 | ||
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FIA Pres has had more to say - not much new in it although the suggestion in the article is that we are unlikely to know where FOM sits on this until next year some time.
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12 Oct 2023, 01:31 (Ref:4181053) | #68 | ||
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But now it seems MBS is doing this for Andretti. He is publicly saying he thinks it will go through and that negotiations with FOM will be successful. That there is no need for legal challenges because it will be worked out. This sets the ground to lay any failure directly at FOM's (and maybe the other team's) feet. This also helps build foundation for any type of anti-trust legal attacks. Richard |
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12 Oct 2023, 22:02 (Ref:4181187) | #69 | ||
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Andretti does not have a current engine deal according to Alpine.
If it gets an entry, no doubt that could be sorted out but it may impact on when the team joins, allowing for production of the power units and all that. Wonder if Andretti would stick with Alpine or go somewhere else? Also wonder about Andretti being approved by the FIA but not having an engine contract - is that slackness by the FIA or did it take a practical approach? |
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
16 Oct 2023, 14:23 (Ref:4181728) | #70 | ||
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And whom does Andretti have a long standing relationship with?
The motor company in Japan is a major hint, and it begins with the letter H. |
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Here's to the new age of Sports car/Prototypes... |
16 Oct 2023, 15:08 (Ref:4181731) | #71 | ||
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It's just my opinion. |
16 Oct 2023, 16:12 (Ref:4181737) | #72 | ||
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16 Oct 2023, 17:30 (Ref:4181749) | #73 | |||
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There could be something in that. Honda Performance Development, HPD, who have been behind engine design and production for IndyCar whose engines Andretti uses, have merged with Honda Racing Corporation, to form Honda Racing Corporation USA, who will collaborate with Honda Racing Corporation Japan. Andretti could be the perfect vehicle, no pun intended, to contribute to Honda's F1 program, as mentioned in this announcement from Honda. https://honda.racing/post/honda-perf...s-organization |
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16 Oct 2023, 20:09 (Ref:4181762) | #74 | ||
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1. Teams are not required to solve the problem of having a power unit or not. The regulations say that if you are a F1 power unit manufacture, in specific situation you may have to provide a power unit to a team that doesn't have one. I don't think this has actually happened yet, but this is not a new rule. So based upon how the rules are structure this would be Honda or Renault/Alpine. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/a...-fia/10533383/ 2. Part of the argument for Andretti is that they are bringing GM with them. But it was understood that given the timeframe this was likely to be a badging effort in the short term. So for example, what if Andretti gets an entry and then GM backs out after Andretti is in? What if GM backs out before Andretti gets in? Should either situation impact Andretti's chances? Richard |
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16 Oct 2023, 22:02 (Ref:4181766) | #75 | |||||
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More from the FIA re engines for Andretti. Interesting that Alpine believes that it's not so simple due to Concorde Agreement.
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