[Official] Chinese Grand Prix 2017 - Round 2 of 20 - Grand Prix Weekend Thread

[bjohnsonsmith]

Congrats to Lewis, a very solid drive.

[Kempi]

I thought during testing Verstappen said the new aero made no difference to following and passing. Sounded different today.

[F1Guy]

I'm beginning to really dislike Verstappen's moaning, particularly when his under pressure. They say Hamilton moans a lot. But Verstappen and Raikkonen are on another level.

Kimi also with added filth that has to be censored on the telecasts. Think drivers should be fined for foul language. $10'000 for every swear word used in a GP sounds about right.

[F1Guy]

How did Vettee get away with being out of his start box?? Thought that would be a slam dunk penalty, as we've seen in previous cases.

I guess AG's stocks have taken a massive dive after this weekend. Trying waaaay to hard to impress. Failed. 'Ambition outweighed talent' comes to mind.

[Razzzor]

Yeah what was Vettel doing on the grid? He can be a bit of a thickhead at times can't he? Not the sharpest tool in the shed for a F1 driver when he does dumb things like this. Did anyone notice how far ahead of Hamilton he was when they pulled onto the grid? There should be consequences for passing other drivers under the formation lap. I suppose he got away with it because the stewards didn't want to ruin a battle for the lead, but they did anyway with forcing the pack through the pits.

Why on earth was everyone spaced so far apart under SC? Ricciardo came in for a SECOND pit stop and was still a mile ahead of Kimi and Verstappen. Even when they went back to green (which had plenty of warning) some drivers were way behind. 6th or 7th was already over 20 seconds behind Hamilton when the race restarted. What on earth was going through their heads? It's not like the SC is going to fast for them to keep up (except for Bottas). There should have been penalties for not staying within 10 car lengths, which several people should have been penalised for (Vettel included). What happened to this rule, did stewards forget it?

Bottas: well this is what I was more expecting from him. Some days he can be good, some days nowhere. 50 secs behind Hamilton (which wasn't all due to traffic or his spin or the pit stop, he just didn't have pace). Niki or someone at Mercedes was harping on about Australia saying Bottas did just as good as what Rosberg would have done in that race, which I thought was quite disrespectful to Rosberg. Well, Rosberg sure as hell wouldn't have been almost a minute behind Hamilton in this race. In fact, Rosberg nearly lapped Hamilton last year. At no point last year did Rosberg finish more than 20 seconds behind Hamilton except at Canada where he got stuck in traffic after a first lap incident, and had a puncture at the end I think and Monaco when he had problems and got stuck behind Alonso.

Giovinazzi: oh dear. Mistake in qualifying, crashes out in the race and Brundle wasn't kind to him. Could this have killed his F1 chances completely? Another good performance could have seen Sauber wonder if they even want Wehrlein back, but Giovinazzi, as he showed in GP2 last year, is prone to making mistakes.

As for the other younguns, good to see Magnussen finally put in a decent performance. It's getting to a point where he needs to show he deserves to be in F1 because he hasn't done anything too memorable since his debut podium. Beating Grosjean is a good start.

Ocon nice and close to Perez, good job there. Palmer making a small recovery from Australia but still behind Hulkenberg pre-penalty. Still Hulk did start 7th wasn't it? Stroll was running much better too. Vandoorne I didn't pay much attention to, but he was a long way behind Alonso before he retired I think. Slow start to his season I hope he gets faster with more experience soon.

[F1Guy]

Photo of how Vettel positioned his car.



Not 100% sure on the rules regarding this, but it can't be legal, surely. Imagine if all drivers now position their cars as far left (or right) as possible with only one side of the car inside the lines like Vettel did!

I thought the rules stated that some part of the front tyre has to be in contact with the side markings i.e., the left tyre must be in contact with the left side white line??

[Neppatsrev Xam]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7ZqE7ABlIs

[Tal Aras]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Why on earth was everyone spaced so far apart under SC? Ricciardo came in for a SECOND pit stop and was still a mile ahead of Kimi and Verstappen. Even when they went back to green (which had plenty of warning) some drivers were way behind. 6th or 7th was already over 20 seconds behind Hamilton when the race restarted. What on earth was going through their heads? It's not like the SC is going to fast for them to keep up (except for Bottas). There should have been penalties for not staying within 10 car lengths, which several people should have been penalised for (Vettel included). What happened to this rule, did stewards forget it?

VSC would have caused it. They can't go much faster than VSC speed so would take timeto catch up with the safety car, unless that goes really slowly, which then gives the leaders problems with tyres. I think this is the first time we've seen VSC go almost straight into Safety car and I suspect there will be some rule tweaking to allow drivers to catch up in future.

[Richard C]

Important things first... the fans managed to find the missing "L" for the "Vettel" sign! Question is... will we see a return of Vettee later in the season?

Not sure what was up with Vettel and how he lined up on the start. I assume he was trying to block inside move going into first turn. I also assume that no penalty may be due to vague sporting regulations? If so, expect a clarification before next race.

It's too bad that Alonso retired. Also interesting that both retirements seem to not be related to the Honda engine!?

Total screwup by Bottas.

Regarding Stroll, I don't blame Perez. He got his nose inside and I don't think Stroll expected him to be there (didn't check mirrors?) Rookie mistake by Stroll?

And what happened to Massa. Bad day overall for Williams.

Richard

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Mr Pink

Man, Verstappen is not easy to like..

On the contrary, in the main, he's one of the few who are worth switching on to watch......

[JohnMiller]

Exactly, he's one of the few worth turning on for, be it driving or being interviewed.

[djinvicta]

Got attitude in and out of the car. Good stuff...

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Photo of how Vettel positioned his car.



Not 100% sure on the rules regarding this, but it can't be legal, surely. Imagine if all drivers now position their cars as far left (or right) as possible with only one side of the car inside the lines like Vettel did!

I thought the rules stated that some part of the front tyre has to be in contact with the side markings i.e., the left tyre must be in contact with the left side white line??

The regulations say - 'When the cars come back to the grid at the end of the formation lap (or laps, see Article 39.16), they will stop within their respective grid positions,'

From the picture, it looks like Vettee is not within his position, so eligible for a penalty. But the stewards chose not to in this case. Perhaps all the drivers will be informed that this case is a warning, and future cases will be penalised?

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Important things first... the fans managed to find the missing "L" for the "Vettel" sign! Question is... will we see a return of Vettee later in the season?

Not sure what was up with Vettel and how he lined up on the start. I assume he was trying to block inside move going into first turn. I also assume that no penalty may be due to vague sporting regulations? If so, expect a clarification before next race.

It's too bad that Alonso retired. Also interesting that both retirements seem to not be related to the Honda engine!?

Total screwup by Bottas.

Regarding Stroll, I don't blame Perez. He got his nose inside and I don't think Stroll expected him to be there (didn't check mirrors?) Rookie mistake by Stroll?

And what happened to Massa. Bad day overall for Williams.

Richard

Yep on the Williams front, that battle for 4th in the WCC is going to be very tight and on paper against their ìmmediate competitors, they have the best car and weakest driver line up, which is why they sit 6th in the championship so far.



Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

[JABWOA]

I thought as long as they are behind the line, they can start almost wherever. Saw enough sideways Merc in prior years but not totally out of the box like Vettel was.

Surprised by the lack of noise on Verstap shutting the door on Dan. It was a long shot by Dan to make the corner but shutting the door like that isn't truely sportmanship. I know the rules have removed the Max rule but blocking is still blocking. At least Max did just make the one move and then held his line.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by JABWOA

I thought as long as they are behind the line, they can start almost wherever. Saw enough sideways Merc in prior years but not totally out of the box like Vettel was.

Surprised by the lack of noise on Verstap shutting the door on Dan. It was a long shot by Dan to make the corner but shutting the door like that isn't truely sportmanship. I know the rules have removed the Max rule but blocking is still blocking. At least Max did just make the one move and then held his line.

Mika Salo (Drivers' Steward) said that the rules are unclear. They noted the incident (along with a few others) and said that their current view within the stewards is that unless something is clearly deliberate, or reckless, they will favour the driver. He said that drivers are supposed to place their car within the box, but as visibility is so poor in the cars they applied the balance of doubt in Vettee's favour.

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

The regulations say - 'When the cars come back to the grid at the end of the formation lap (or laps, see Article 39.16), they will stop within their respective grid positions,'

Thanks crmalcom.

But surely there has to be more clarification than 'will stop within their respective grid positions.' There are lines for a reason. And one would assume that these lines would be included in the rule for better clarification. This is F1 after all. Other 4 wheels categories have more detailed rules regarding the start/grid position.

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

He said that drivers are supposed to place their car within the box, but as visibility is so poor in the cars they applied the balance of doubt in Vettee's favour.

If this is true, then that has to be one of the most pathetic excuses for a race steward to not issue a penalty. Visibility is so poor in the cars?? It's been that way for decades!!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Thanks crmalcom.

But surely there has to be more clarification than 'will stop within their respective grid positions.' There are lines for a reason. And one would assume that these lines would be included in the rule for better clarification. This is F1 after all. Other 4 wheels categories have more detailed rules regarding the start/grid position.

I don't think there needs to be any further clarification. Within the grid position should be clear enough that your wheels must be within the white lines.
Visibility should not be an issue, as on approach you can see the lines before you approach, so surely just line the car up and enter in a straight line (like all other drivers managed to do).
There is a yellow line at the side of the box that gives drivers a reference for how far forward they should be, so I think a penalty would have been justified in this case.

However, the stewards chose not to, so I think it is a clear message that they are being a lot more lenient this year. Perhaps it is a case of the viewing public want to see the race decided by racing, not by the imposing of penalties.

[Born Racer]

Regarding Verstappen and his protestations on the radio, I think his words are indicative of the general belief that leading/ lapping drivers have priority over cars due to be lapped, whereas in reality I would favour the idea that first they have to get within range of blue lights. His belief (at least in the moment that it mattered to him) is that the blue lights should have been shown, as Grosjean's car was already putting him in turbulent air. If we are to go down the road of showing blue lights every time a lapping car gets slightly in the turbulent air, there will be a lot more blue lights and cars being lapped having to suddenly drop their pace. I think the race directors were right not to intervene any more. Lapping drivers already have it pretty easy with blue lights.

[F1Guy]

As I understand the rules, the car to be lapped has to be within a second for the blue flags to be shown. Max was 2+ seconds back and was whining trying to get in Charlie's ear.

[S griffin]

Race was a bit more lively than in Oz. Especially Max, as said above one of the few worth tuning into for.

Vettel not getting a penalty was weird, but he could have challenged Lewis had he not got stuck behind his team mate. Although the long straight meant more overtaking, it's still not enough with these latest cars. The mixed conditions helped in the beginning though

Bit gutted for Stroll, he proved himself making it into Q3, just a shame it all went pear shaped on the first lap. Good on Sainz taking a brave gamble, even though it didn't work, he who dares. And Fred once again gave 100%, only to be unrewarded. He is far from finished

Glad Ricciardo had a better race than in Oz, he showed he can match Max

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Regarding Verstappen and his protestations on the radio, I think his words are indicative of the general belief that leading/ lapping drivers have priority over cars due to be lapped, whereas in reality I would favour the idea that first they have to get within range of blue lights. His belief (at least in the moment that it mattered to him) is that the blue lights should have been shown, as Grosjean's car was already putting him in turbulent air. If we are to go down the road of showing blue lights every time a lapping car gets slightly in the turbulent air, there will be a lot more blue lights and cars being lapped having to suddenly drop their pace. I think the race directors were right not to intervene any more. Lapping drivers already have it pretty easy with blue lights.

In some parts of the world, where the flaggies cover racing many weekends of the year at many different levels (especially club level), they (we) get plenty of practice at reading the race and choosing when to throw a blue at a car with a faster car behind it. At the British GP we notably get told over the radio when/where a leading car is likely to catch a backmarker, but it's still up to us to decide whether to throw a flag or a light at it.

Oddly, the clause in the DRIVING section of the F1 Sporting Regulations has had the blue flag section removed at some point in the last 12 months, I think to put it in a standing document. It says (said):

Originally Posted by F1 Sporting Regulations as of 2016, 27.9

As soon as a car is caught by another car which is about to lap it during the race the driver must allow the faster driver past at the first available opportunity. If the driver who has been caught does not allow the faster driver past, waved blue flags will be shown to indicate that he must allow the following driver to overtake.

Having watched yesterday's, for the most part Verstappen simply wasn't closing on Grosjean fast enough to warrant a blue in my view. He was neither close enough, nor had a sufficient speed differential. If that's down to to this year's aero, then everyone has an answer to the problem already - and it isn't "tell back markers to get out the way when a car is 3 seconds behind and 5mph faster".





As an aside, it may amuse you that that the MSA (UK motorsport governing body) wording of the blue flag is:

Originally Posted by MSA Blue Book 2017 E 3.2.3

(b) Blue flag – Stationary: Another competitor is
following close behind.
(c) Blue flag – Waved: Another competitor is trying to
overtake.

Note that doesn't say "MOVE OVER", nor in fact is there any requirement to move over - however if a driver does not, then they can be got under a related rule:

Originally Posted by MSA Blue Book 2017 Q 14.4

A car alone on the track may use the full width of the track. however, as soon as it is caught by a car which is about to lap it the driver must allow the faster
driver past at the first possible opportunity. If the driver who has been caught does not seem to make full use of the rear-view mirrors, flag marshals will display waved blue flags to indicate that the faster driver wants to overtake. Any driver who appears to ignore the blue flags will be reported to the Clerk of Course.

...which still doesn't mandate "MOVE OVER".

[F1Guy]

I'm not enjoying seeing and reading about this bromance between Hamilton and Vettel at the moment. Not one bit.

There's just too much hugging, ass kissing, handshaking and praising going on between the two. It's just not right. Not what F1 needs.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

I'm not enjoying seeing and reading about this bromance between Hamilton and Vettel at the moment. Not one bit.

There's just too much hugging, ass kissing, handshaking and praising going on between the two. It's just not right. Not what F1 needs.

its exactly what f1 needs! after about 8 years of sour grapes and faces like a cows arse from ham V alo, ric V vet and ros V ham, its nice to see a bit of mutual respect and enjoyment out there