ECU/s Motec vs Cosworth Pectel SQ6

[TwinturboM3]

Just read this post. Pectel ECUs are great devices.

Apex Speed sold me a Pectel SQ6 in 2008.

Apex Speed sold me a second SQ6 in 2010.

By then Pectel was the "best" choice.

When Apexspeed's dealership was terminated by Cosworth, Motec became best.

I ve been using Pectel and Cosworth Electronic products with success, stil owning the fastest 60-130 mph BMW record.

[TimeServedOnThePitwall]

Hi,
As I general rule I dont post on forums but felt some need to pitch in my 2 pence worth..
What I say is what I've learnt in the pro end of the market...if you dont agree, fair enough, we can chat about it in the bar at the end of season party.
>Compare like with like...a Motec M800 is a long way of the All singing/dancing Pectel MQ12 but there are serious price differences. Compare the SQ6 to an M800 and your on a fairer playing field.
>Choose your mapper before your ECU.. Guys who know a brand very well can run rings around those who 'claim' to be able to tune them all well. I would use differnet people for a Pectel or a Motec.
>I use a different guy for different projects, a bike tuner and a Rally (Turbo) guy can both tune very well but comparativley crap when swapped over.
>98% of tuners are not as good as they think (or at least as good as they tell you), find someone who seems to be honest about what you will end up with and its a good start.
>Never try to compare one shops dyno figures with another... always compare figure from the same dyno.
>Dyno figures can be faked very very easily...thus use some one you trust.
>A good honest tuner will probably give you lower figures that a (max power) fast road shop...but I know which figure I would be inclined to believe.
>Drive-ability is more important than max power, progressive power is the key to fast lap times, unless you draggin
>Bolt on extra engine bits and you've just undone your last mapping..go again.
>A quick (bash it out) mapping wont cover, transients and off throttle areas..these DO matter.
>Lastly..many years ago I saw a Bosch Engineer looking up how to use there own software in the manual..I knew more than he did but he had the Bosch Shirt and the Boss was paying thousands to have an official Tune! Scary. There gets a point, above around 600 pounds a day..that you dont get anymore skills for your dollar. You can pay full McLaren money but.... well.
Sorry turned into bit of an epic rant
...If I had to choose for a mid level 4cyl project...it would be the SQ6 over the M800.. sorry Jamie. but If I had to choose a datalogging system to get a (sub F1) team up and running quickly its typically MoTeC all the way..I can get a driver doing there own numbers in a afternoon, amazing!
back to prep for Silverstone. Laters.
P.S. MoTeC's new magnesium series..is very interesting, not for the faint hearted and certainly not for the smaller tuning shops but super potential...keep the dev going you Oz boys.

[Notso Swift]

Some good words there
Especially to pick your tuner based on the system you have

I had a "Pro*" shop set a tune that went through 5 head gaskets on a car... must be me... even though they put 32deg advance on boost for pump fuel - muppets

The guys I originally wanted to tune it put a 4WD dyno in, got them to do it and never had another issue
To be fair I am starting to see more (race) tuners these days who will not touch anything other than the brand they specialise in


*Running the official program for GT3 customer cars for a major manufacturer in Asia Pacific region

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by Notso Swift

Some good words there
Especially to pick your tuner based on the system you have

I had a "Pro*" shop set a tune that went through 5 head gaskets on a car... must be me... even though they put 32deg advance on boost for pump fuel - muppets

The guys I originally wanted to tune it put a 4WD dyno in, got them to do it and never had another issue
To be fair I am starting to see more (race) tuners these days who will not touch anything other than the brand they specialise in


*Running the official program for GT3 customer cars for a major manufacturer in Asia Pacific region

Incompetence aside allot of these self professed 'experts' alliances and designations not withstanding have no idea of fundamentals of engines, how to calibrate them or the ability to make the tools to do so.

This is the root cause behind the saying "pick what your tuners uses recommends" I'm sorry but that is bullshit excuse at its most ridiculous. You pick what is BEST and you learn to use it yourself #1 then if need be from time or ability constraints you find someone to do the job for you (its not that hard really).

I developed my own software tools to facilitate the process of mapping any ECU platform, and the Pectel/LR/Syvecs model is pretty easy/straight forward once you have something similar. Any permutations of injectors (banked) fuel density, chemical composition (H,C balance) etc is a pleasure to re calibrate for.















And if you don't have this many worksheets in your Pectel workspace then you really have no idea what you are doing

[greenamex2]

Rice Racing. Is possible to get an Odometer on an ICD? I know I couldn't on my Omega D1.

Would rather keep it all Cosworth/pectel but would have to go Motec for the dash if it doesn't.

Thanks in advance.

[RICE RACING]

Here is your answer Denis I just did this in my Toolset software, from the Pectel data stream.

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

Here is your answer Denis I just did this in my Toolset software, from the Pectel data stream.

Bugger, so you need an SQ6 or better. I only have a T6.

Need to have a think about that, the new colour displays do looking stunning!

Thanks for the help.

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

Bugger, so you need an SQ6 or better. I only have a T6.

Need to have a think about that, the new colour displays do looking stunning!

Thanks for the help.

Anytime, I have a customer who is selling a SQ6 (M3 bloke who posted here I think his name is Mert).

I spent allot of time configuring my ICD to make it clear and readable, it is the best have two set ups, black on white and the one you see here, Nothing worse than a 'dash' that is full of colour and bling, looking like a nintendo gameboy@ but not being clear and legible

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

Anytime, I have a customer who is selling a SQ6 (M3 bloke who posted here I think his name is Mert).

I spent allot of time configuring my ICD to make it clear and readable, it is the best have two set ups, black on white and the one you see here, Nothing worse than a 'dash' that is full of colour and bling, looking like a nintendo gameboy@ but not being clear and legible

Probably out of my current budget...but if he wants to get in touch with a price for the SQ6, the worst I can say is no.

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

Probably out of my current budget...but if he wants to get in touch with a price for the SQ6, the worst I can say is no.

post 51 is him, send pm, also has ad on efi uni forum.

[alex.w86]

You do not have to have an SQ6. but you will need to configure at least 1 speed input in to the dash.

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by alex.w86

You do not have to have an SQ6. but you will need to configure at least 1 speed input in to the dash.

Cheers Alex, perfect.

Just need to offload my Stack dash and data logger!

[RICE RACING]

These are some of the pages I have finalized, while on black works best in all conditions and layout etc, color gradients etc, a sample of what it looks like...

[greenamex2]

Yummy. Just needs sat nav and a media player!

Don't suppose you have any experience of the D4? Can that have a odometer as well?

Thanks

[greenamex2]

A bit of a footnote to this thread.

I ended up selling on my Pectel T6 and going the Motec route rather than Cosworth. I ended up with a CDL3 dash, M130 ECU and LTCD.

Before some comments, do not get me wrong. I loved my T6 and Cosworth "D1" dash and compact logger.

However....Motec world is a VERY different place to Cosworth world for an individual like me.

So far Motec have helped with -

Upgrades
Injector characterisation
Beacon transmission from dash to ECU
Half a dozen other silly little bits and pieces
AND listened to an enhancement request for the ECU which will reduce the amount of money I need to spend with them and will implement shortly

All for free!

Add in all the online tech notes and webinars and the change over has pretty much already paid for itself already.

Whilst Cosworth were happy to sell me stuff, the after sales support was nothing like this. Well done Motec and thanks from the little guy.

[Bevan-L]

Loving what's on the market these days... I'm still rocking a Motec M8 ECU with a PI System 3c lol

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

A bit of a footnote to this thread.

I ended up selling on my Pectel T6 and going the Motec route rather than Cosworth. I ended up with a CDL3 dash, M130 ECU and LTCD.

Before some comments, do not get me wrong. I loved my T6 and Cosworth "D1" dash and compact logger.

However....Motec world is a VERY different place to Cosworth world for an individual like me.

So far Motec have helped with -

Upgrades
Injector characterisation
Beacon transmission from dash to ECU
Half a dozen other silly little bits and pieces
AND listened to an enhancement request for the ECU which will reduce the amount of money I need to spend with them and will implement shortly

All for free!

Add in all the online tech notes and webinars and the change over has pretty much already paid for itself already.

Whilst Cosworth were happy to sell me stuff, the after sales support was nothing like this. Well done Motec and thanks from the little guy.

I too ****ed off all of my Cosworth gear
They were a total nightmare to deal with! rampant false advertizing on their ECU which was never amended to this day! and stupid prices to get 'bespoke firmware done' and just too slow and too painful to deal with.

I off loaded the MQ12 to one bloke, the ICD to another, along with all the misc parts.
Just like the UK Race Car Engineer place did to me LOL........ but he was nice enough to say at the start that they were ****ing off Pectel ECU cause it was a rip off to get charged for everything from the new owners Cosworth.
What stung me was the false claim that out of the box it would do 2 stroke and rotary engines, which IT WILL NOT, without bespoke coding for ~4000 pounds!!!! and even then it would not have everything and you still pay through the nose for any updates later on............... just a bad bad joke!

Back in the day Pectel (the original company) were fine to deal with, today Cosworth only give a **** if you are spending $20,000 or more with them, all else is a waste to them, so I said 'see you later'.

LIFE RACING & Syvecs
much much better choice, with no pain, no pay to upgrade firmware, no annual personality crap to deal with, and NO FALSE ADVERTIZING!.....

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

LIFE RACING & Syvecs
much much better choice, with no pain, no pay to upgrade firmware, no annual personality crap to deal with, and NO FALSE ADVERTIZING!.....

Life/Syvecs were a close second.

Right up until I paid for the Motec I was still debating. In the end I2 and the ready made engine loom swung me in favour of Motec.....just. That and an exceptional discount!

[roscoe]

Interesting thread, good to hear you are having such a good experience with your MoTeC Dennis, and in particular with your M130.

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by roscoe

Interesting thread, good to hear you are having such a good experience with your MoTeC Dennis, and in particular with your M130.

There are lots of people I know having major issue's with the new M1 series ECU's I think they shot themselves in the face on that one, bit off a support nightmare and it just does not do what they say at the end of the day.

I did some work with the software and developer tools and its a bad joke really the more is better philosophy RE basic things (like use of color) in identity fields is just retarded! Compared to my Life Racing software which you can sit in front of for months without eye strain or any issues, the M1 I challenge anyone to use for more than an hour without having a medical episode *fit*..........

Actually the bloke who bought my Pectel MQ12 said he turned down the Motec M1 as his installer is in tight with lots of end users across various fields of use and they all are having issues.

I love my Life Racing software and hardware is just made by people who do not 'race retarded' better than Pectel with no BS codes or pay to play excess for EVERYTHING, like was pioneered on the convict island economic model LOL.

[cossie55]

Can you please elaborate exactly what you are referring to here with some examples. I would love to know more about your issues with M1...

Perhaps screen shots, more detailed descriptions.


I am sure that I can assist you with your personal difficulty in using an M1 system.



-Jamie@MoTeC.

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

There are lots of people I know having major issue's with the new M1 series ECU's I think they shot themselves in the face on that one, bit off a support nightmare and it just does not do what they say at the end of the day.

I did some work with the software and developer tools and its a bad joke really the more is better philosophy RE basic things (like use of color) in identity fields is just retarded! Compared to my Life Racing software which you can sit in front of for months without eye strain or any issues, the M1 I challenge anyone to use for more than an hour without having a medical episode *fit*..........

Actually the bloke who bought my Pectel MQ12 said he turned down the Motec M1 as his installer is in tight with lots of end users across various fields of use and they all are having issues.

I love my Life Racing software and hardware is just made by people who do not 'race retarded' better than Pectel with no BS codes or pay to play excess for EVERYTHING, like was pioneered on the convict island economic model LOL.

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by cossie55

Can you please elaborate exactly what you are referring to here with some examples. I would love to know more about your issues with M1...

Perhaps screen shots, more detailed descriptions.


I am sure that I can assist you with your personal difficulty in using an M1 system.



-Jamie@MoTeC.

For me using a M1 system is not a personal difficulty rather a preference to not use it, especially when there are better choices that I (and others) find superior on lots of levels *already eluded too*, this I have spoken about before.

It's a free world, and even though I have access to your products at dealer pricing, I still choose to not use them myself (or recommend them to my customers). The latest M1 while marketed (which is your companies strong point) well, is ultimately a lower tier choice purely on an objective level, not just doing 'spec sheet comparisons' but how they work in reality (hardware/software) there is a mountain of stuff I could mention, but simply spending "a million dollars" on software development allocation does not mean it's going to be great or well thought through for the experienced end users out there.

*Your marketing is good
*Your business model is.... > good (for motecs bottom line, though I find it abhorrent!)
*Your customer support (for novice/hobby users who heavily rely on it is good), webinars and other training offerings are good, and an excellent avenue for brainwashing people with your own specific acronyms and building the message you want to pedal (props to you)
*Your products though are 2nd rate

I chose the product based on its function #1
All of the other 'value added' items I don't need, but we are comparing apples to oranges looking at Motec V's Life Racing and Pectel/Cosworth. Yours is o.k. for what it is, but holds nothing to proper racing ECU's with real pedigree, working solutions, and function that is generations ahead of anything you currently offer or ever will offer, you simply never will be able too since you are NOT a bespoke engine development facility like the others I have used or recommend, you are NOT on the same level or ever will be sadly Jamie, unless of course you start making engines and power trains and then develop control products to cater for these like LR and Cosworth do. Never say never.......... once you are at that stage and things are made for the more capable end users, then I will take a look at your systems again, but for now no thanks and the 'rape to play pay to play' model for every conceivable software code turn on option you can stick where the sun does not shine

[cossie55]

Mr Rice,
I do find so many of your comments amusing, lacking in any actual facts, just full of sweeping generalizations, and personal issues.

There are many good competitors in the ECU field, all with their strengths and weaknesses. MoTeC produce a quality product with a well tested features and proven results.

If you would like some assistance in getting to understand engine management systems and MoTeC in particular, feel free to drop me an email.

-Jamie@MoTeC

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by cossie55

Mr Rice,
I do find so many of your comments amusing, lacking in any actual facts, just full of sweeping generalizations, and personal issues.

There are many good competitors in the ECU field, all with their strengths and weaknesses. MoTeC produce a quality product with a well tested features and proven results.

If you would like some assistance in getting to understand engine management systems and MoTeC in particular, feel free to drop me an email.

-Jamie@MoTeC

Your view is as an employee of motec, good for you.
Mine is as a person who has no alliance or sales objectives or KPI's to meet just pick what is the obvious choice to other professionals and what logically is superior and much better value. If you find that 'amusing' then glad I can make you happy I find it amusing people pick your systems over two others that are technically superior in form and function for both hardware and software. As I already said though most who buy your product are swayed by not those aspects rather they are looking for other things like marketing reassurance and hand holding.............. even if they pay through the nose for it for BS 'software enables' for something that is already in the ECU, that is a really shitty model you have pioneered there.

[cossie55]

That is your opinion, and you are welcome to it.

Having seen your vague claims against pretty much every brand of ECU on other websites Peter, I realise your trolling is more than just a hobby for you in Bairnsdale.