Brabham BT28

[Bryan Miller]

Interestingly , I was just looking at an advert. M.R.E. inside front cover Autosport 27/1/1972.
For Sale .
1] BT28 full F3 trim.
2] BT21 F.Ford ex. Tony Hanson , fitted with BT28 bodywork.

The problem area always will be for us, the people in the U.K. who broke cars up as spares, and the other big problem is that some cars did , 1] not do much work, and 2] were used by non famous people , and/or in club events.

Breaking up of race cars over here virtually did not happen , as the cost with import duties of a new car was substantial , so the cars kept on being updated with bigger wheels , chassis stiffening , different eng. for a new formula etc. so the cars were in most cases still extant, where over your side of the pond , when it was a few years old , there was a fair chance that it was used a source of spares.

[Chris Townsend]

I have a few extra snippets on BT28s

Chassis 39 is for sale by Duke Soares 3.2.72 Autosport.

Belso's car was definitely chassis 8. The number is given in the Motoring News report of the Mallory Park F2 race in 1972 [which also gives Dick Barker's Atlantic spec car as BT28-20.
As Belso probably bought the car in Denmark I suspect that 8 was originally Jorgen Ellekaer's car, as he's the only Dane using one in 69, and the build number is about right for his first appearance.

Also, Ted gave us BT28-14 as for Bob Wolleck. Did Wolleck ever get this car? I can't find a record of him in F3 in 69 and there are cancelled BT28 orders everywhere by mid season because of the late deliveries. We know Wolleck had chassis 40 in May 70, but does 14 go elsewhere, for example to Mitchell?

Chris

[Bryan Miller]

Chris,

Can't help with your questions, however need to ask another .
BT28-20 as advised much earlier in this thread has been here since mid 1970's , masquerading with an FVA in it, did this start life as an F3 , and with whom?
Am not being picky , however is not Bob Wollek the correct spelling.?

Regards Bryan.

[Chris Townsend]

Bryan

BT28-20

Delivered late August 1969 for Mike Stow. Number given in report of F3 race at Brands in MN. Maybe driven couple of times late season by Beuttler, also driven by Barker when his Alexis drive fell through.
Retained by Stow to end 71, having also been driven by Alan Joy. Then sold via Spencer Elton, a hillclimber who also dealt a fair bit, to Barker who fitted a BDA and updated it to BT29 spec. No idea of post-Barker history, but he'd run out of money by mid 72.

Apologies, it is Wollek.

Chris

[Steve Wilkinson]

2nd Rd British F3 Championship

38 Mo Harness - BT28/Driver

[benjabulle]

Hello, Brabham owners, I added hires pics of a BT28 here : http://www.gurneyflap.com/historic.html
Unfortunately I didn't take pictures of the chassis number, all I can say is that they were taken in Dijon (France) last year.

[Andrew Fellowes]

benjabulle, thank you. Hart 416? rear oil cooler, but I like the padded seat! I wonder what the wires are to the front hub?

Chris, done -just waiting a reply and will get back to you.
Andrew

[allenbrown]

Here's a curious thing. Second round of the 1975 Aussie Gold Star and I spy Denis Lupton on the entry list with a blue 1600cc Brabham BT28. Anyone know which car this was?



Allen

[David McKinney]

Misprint for his BT23?
Did he own it at that time?

[allenbrown]

BT23/5? According to an earlier post, Denis didn't have his BT23 until 1981. He also owned BT30/27 at one time and the timing would be better for that one but BT30 -> BT28 is quite a misprint.

Allen

[David McKinney]

OK
Thought it was worth a try...

[Andrew Fellowes]

I had a long chat with Denis the other day and he has extensive Brabham records. Looks like he might be racing again too.
He has been trying to cross reference the AM numbers, I must go and see him but he is 2,000 kms away from me!

Bryan is this BT28-20 that Allen mentions?

[allenbrown]

I did correspond with Denis in the 1980s and his records were very impressive. I'm glad to hear that he still has everything and is still involved.

Allen

[Bryan Miller]

Allen/ Andrew.

The car you are discussing is BT28-20 , from our research by 1970 with Dick Barker , then for sale with Bob Howlings Autosport 17-12-1970 chassis no. given , then to Alan Joy, Autosport 25-3-1971 , page 35 , then for sale 3-2-1972 page 53 Autosport by Elton's Motors .
Accrding to F1R ran at Mallory PK. March 1972 European F2 round against my BT35 , fitted with a BDA.
Untill that time had been a 1 litre F3 .
For sale again Autosport 11-1-1973 , page 50 , listed as ex , Stow /Barker/Joy/Wadham-Smith , sale this time also by Elton's Motors.
I think purchased very soon after and came to Australia .
Was used by Denis in contemporary racing , untill later .
Denis fitted at some point an FVA and later applied for but was declined historic status as he was unable to proove that the car had run as such in period .
Believed still in this spec.

Bryan.

[allenbrown]

Thanks Bryan

[Ted Walker]

I think that Barker entered BT29-20 for the 72 F2 Mallory.Spencer had the BT28 for sale at the same time.The 29 coming from Peter Bloor as a cancelled order from Steve Matchett who went down the March route for 72.

[Bryan Miller]

Thanks Ted,
Must be a typo in F1R.
Bryan.

[Chris Townsend]

This is from my F.Atlantic car database concerning Dick Barker's F.Atlantic Brabham
I disagree with Ted that the car at Mallory was BT29-20, though Barker may own that car later in the year. It was, I think, BT28-2 at Mallory, but the confusion may stem from Barker owning both BT28-20 and BT28-2 at different times!

Brabham BT28 [2]–Ford t/c and later BDA, rebuilt to BT29/35 spec.
Delivered March 1969 for Clarke Mordaunt racing team for Mike Beuttler in F3. Used throughout the year. Sold to Jim Edwards for UK F3 in 1970. Edwards is described as appearing in ‘the Four Flags ex Beuttler BT28' [MN 25.6.70 p.9]. Sold to Mike Stow for Formula Atlantic in 1971: at the first race of the season Stow appears in ‘the hard-worked ex Beuttler 1969 F3 BT28 beautifully restored by Jim Glebe' [MN 11.3.71 p.6]. The car is updated to BT29/35 spec, or at least described as such in programmes. Sold to Dick Barker at the beginning of 1972. According to MN 27.1.72 p.19, Barker has ‘bought Stow’s ex Beuttler Brabham which was brought up to FB BT29 specification last year.’ Since Beuttler’s 1970 BT28 was used throughout 1971 by José Ferreira in F3, this reference can only be to BT28-2. (The Beuttler/Ferreira car is probably the ex-Beuttler BT28 used by Glenn Hyatt in F4 in 1972 [A/S Sept, 1972], though this could possibly be Barker selling on the remains of BT28-2 after its big accident in the European F2 race at Crystal Palace.) What complicates the attribution of this car as BT28-2 is that MN 16.3.72 p.9 and MN 6.4.72 p.6 give its chassis number as BT28-20. BT28-20 was an ex Stow car, used in late 1969 by David Cole [debuting Crystal Palace 13.9.69], and was sold in late 1969 [MN 27.11.69 p.19] to Barker who used it in F3 in 1970. However, BT28-20 was sold to Alan Joy in 1971, who used the car in F3 throughout 1971, and the chassis number is given [A/S 25.3.71 p. 35] Joy offers the car for sale [A/S 7.10.71 p. 45] updated to this year's F3 spec; and it is then offered for sale by Spencer Elton, [A/S 2.3.72, 'ex Stow/Barker/Joy’], after MN says that Barker has bought Stow’s 1971 car. Furthermore, it would seem as though BT28-20 spent 1972 being raced in F3 by David Wadham-Smith. An ad in A/S 11.1.73 p.50 by Spencer Elton [again] gives the chassis no BT28-20 and says 'ex Stow/Barker/Joy/Wadham-Smith’. The BT28-20 attribution for Barker’s car might be explained either by a misprint or mistake in note-taking (MN’s F2 reporter assuming that Barker had kept his 1970 ‘ex Stow’ car), or by Barker having kept a plate from BT28-20 and attaching it to his new car. Barker has a BT29/35 for sale A/S 5.4.73 p.64 [Ashley 2279] which may be this car, or possibly – given the damage suffered by BT28-20 at Crystal Palace – a rebuild of BT29-20, which was originally sold to Steve Matchett with BT29-19 in 1970 and which has not yet been traced elsewhere.

[Bryan Miller]

Chris,

Can't agree that a mistake was made in reference to the Mallory 1972 meeting , as I just checked the Autosport report which states ''Dick Barker in his ex Mike Stow BT29 in Atlantic trim with a Graham Eden BDA. That sort of deletes the fact that M.N made a reporting error , with the two magazines we rely on both advising ex Stow .What it could be is a reporter assuming that a BT28 when fitted with a BDA should then be called a BT29 off his own bat, when in fact is is a BT28 updated to BT29 specs.
What it may well be is chassis plate switching as you suggest.
Interestingly Autosport report BT35-8 as ''F/Atlantic man Ed Reeves entered his Dave Bowen prepared F3 BT35 chassis '', something this car has never been since leaving the factory is an F3.
What seemed prevelant at this time is pure confusion with some reporters stating a car was ''say'' a BT35 simply because it had been back to Brabhams and updated to new bag tank/body work , when in fact it was a BT28 updated with BT35 components , and correctly should have been entered and described as a BT28/35, similarly in the case of a March description should be March 712/73B/76B , but that would have made life too easy for us.

Bryan.

[Chris Townsend]

Bryan
Part of the problem is that these cars get called all things, not least by their owners.

However!
According to MN 27.1.72 p.19, Barker has ‘bought Stow’s ex Beuttler Brabham which was brought up to FB BT29 specification last year.’

This is certainly BT28-2. It cannot be chassis 20 as that's racing F3 with Joy.
Agree the Mallory car is ex Stow but there is no evidence of Stow having anything other than BT28-2 throughout 1971 Atlantic season, and he does fit a BDA in it during 1971, at the same time changing the description to BT28/29, or BT29/35 and
even plain BT35 depending on the bodywork fitted and the mood he was in. [I now have programmes for virtually every Atlantic race in 1971 and most of the organisers result sheets] Even at the first Atlantic race in 71 - the point at which MN identifies the car as Beuttler's 69 F3 car - Stow calls it a BT29/35.

MN is very specific: ex Beuttler, ex Stow [can't be a BT29 as Beuttler never raced one, can only be one of two BT28s and Ferreira's got the other]. Ergo, Barker, BT28-2 all of 1971.

Dick Barker was dirt poor - he'd be high up the grid for the race to be the hardest
up bloke on the grid [though I remember Eric Horsfield going without food for some
days when I was doing FF] Barker certainly didn't have the wherewithal to buy first Stow's BT28 and then a BT29 from somewhere, giving him two BDA engined cars. [If he had two cars in early 1972 how come he fails to start half the Atlantic races he
enters when all he need do is switch to the spare?]

If Barker did have BT29-20, and it's a big if, it might be after he bends the BT28
very badly at Crystal Palace and instead of repairing it buys a replacement.

I believe that what might be BT29-20 has been traced to Staffordshire - Barker's home county. This might encourage us to think that the ex Matchett car had passed
through his hands. However, another Staffordshire resident with a BT29/35 in 1972-3 is Howard Rose. This might be BT29-20 or it could be the much reworked remains of Barker's BT28-2

[RAP]

Isn't there a third "Beuttler" BT28 in this story somewhere ? F1R records BT28-35 with Beuttler at Snetterton 15/3/70 and Oulton 22/8/70. Also, Autosport describes his car as "new" 8/3/70. So Beuttler's 1970 car is neither BT28-2 or BT28-20. So which was Ferreira - logically 35?

Stowe's role confuses me. He had BT28-20 is 1969 which was driven a couple of times by Beuttler so this, not 2, is surely more likely to be "Stow's ex Beuttler Brabham". Is there evidence that Stow had BT28-2? I'm confused............time for a stiff drink !

RAP

[Chris Townsend]

RAP

Yes, Ferreira's car was his new 1970 model - I didn't know what chassis number it carried.
Beuttler only drove this and chassis 2. Chassis 20 went new to Stow late 1969 then to Barker in 1970, then to Joy 1971 [or even earlier] then to Wadham Smith for 1972. When do we think Beuttler drove BT28-20? [I used to think this but then couldn't find any evidence.] Stow must have BT28-2 early 1971 for Atlantic: Ferreira has 35; Joy has 20 and Stow's car at Brands 1971 is described specifically as Beuttler's old car.

Agree it's b***** complicated and not helped by possible errors in recording
chassis nos. I've looked at this every which way for the last two years and this
seems to me the solution. The Barker car at Mallory can't be BT28-20.
It could be BT29-20, but that would mean Barker buying two different cars within a month of each other - without us having any evidence of the provenance of the second.

Chris

[RAP]

Chris
"When do we think Beuttler drove BT28-20? [I used to think this but then couldn't find any evidence]"

I think I took this from your (much) earlier post in this story, but it appeared credible as F1R recorded Cole's Crystal Palace car as BT28-2 and Beuttler was at Albi that weekend. So, if Cole was in BT28-2 Beuttler wasn't. The F1R guys used to read chassis numbers, however I would now assume that this is a mis-reading or typo for BT28-20.

RAP

[Ted Walker]

Spoke with my pal Spencer Elton today. He had 28-20 for sale at the same time as 29-20 was at Mallory park.As we have commented on before cars were often described as a "BT28-35" meaning a 28 with the new spec wider35 body,not as 28 chassis 35.

[Chris Townsend]

Richard

That 28-2 for Stow in 1969 is a maybe a bit of a problem. [I understood his car to be new at that race] One misprint I can accept, but don't want to keep assuming them.
Does F1R give BT28-20 for Stow at any point in 1969? What other evidence do we have for this car as Stow's? Or, does Beuttler get 28-20 late season and flog the well
used 28-2 to Stow?

Next question: does F1R give a chassis number for Jim Edwards's ex Beuttler BT28 in 1970?

Chris