Group A Rover 3500 SD1/Vitesse - History & Whereabouts - Page 3

**chunterer** · 18 Apr 2006, 16:10 (Ref:1587751)

That's some interesting history Jesper - I feel we may be getting closer to the identiy of that particular car. Kaj must've been doing well to keep Uklf Granberg at bay as he was certainly a leading Group A pilot at the time!

With reference to William Dale's earlier point about the early TWR Commodores' continuing chassis numbers on from the Rover's, that does make sense. I recall somebody somewhere mentioning something similar on another thread some time ago (can't find it anywhere though?)

The first TWR Holden was a wingless VL, I believe, which ran at one or two 1987 WTCC rounds in Europe (Nurburgring was one of them with Tom and Jeff Allam at the helm.) I suspect this car was the 'test hack' prior to homologating the crazy barn foor back wings, side skirts and massive front splitter on the VLSS/88!

I recall the BTCC organisers courting Tom to enter the early VL in some events in '87 and Jeff Allam was a possiblity for the GP support race (as indeed he might also have had the possibility of driving a sister Rover to Dave Carvell IIRC Dave?) Unfortunately it never did run, which was a shame as it would have added some extra punch to the season.

BTW any more news on the SD1 parked in Martin Thomas' field that Al mentioned?

Jesper OH · 18 Apr 2006, 18:57 (Ref:1587863)

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...ns+engineering - bottom of the page there's a note about the Tim Slako Rover.

I have heard the same speculations regarding the TWR Commodores continuing the TWR Vitesses, but that only leaves another question! Where do the seven TWR Jaguar XJS's fit in or the group C Jag's for that matter?

The XJS's were numbered 1-7 while the group C/IMSA cars would be named 186 for the first chassis of 1986 and so on. I does give some sence though if you think of the Rovers and Holdens as official factory commisioned cars, while the official group C/IMSA chassis were build by an outside contractor and finally the XJS's started off as a privateer effort.

Jesper

Jesper

KA · 18 Apr 2006, 22:56 (Ref:1588108)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

That's some interesting history Jesper - I feel we may be getting closer to the identiy of that particular car. Kaj must've been doing well to keep Uklf Granberg at bay as he was certainly a leading Group A pilot at the time!
With reference to William Dale's earlier point about the early TWR Commodores' continuing chassis numbers on from the Rover's, that does make sense. I recall somebody somewhere mentioning something similar on another thread some time ago (can't find it anywhere though?)
The first TWR Holden was a wingless VL, I believe, which ran at one or two 1987 WTCC rounds in Europe (Nurburgring was one of them with Tom and Jeff Allam at the helm.) I suspect this car was the 'test hack' prior to homologating the crazy barn foor back wings, side skirts and massive front splitter on the VLSS/88!
I recall the BTCC organisers courting Tom to enter the early VL in some events in '87 and Jeff Allam was a possiblity for the GP support race (as indeed he might also have had the possibility of driving a sister Rover to Dave Carvell IIRC Dave?) Unfortunately it never did run, which was a shame as it would have added some extra punch to the season.
BTW any more news on the SD1 parked in Martin Thomas' field that Al mentioned?

I've got a very vague recollection that the TWR VL Commodore (Walkinshaw) and a Rover (Allam) may have been on the entry list for the BTCC race at the British GP meeting in 87- they definitely didn't appear though- the Nurburgring WTCC race was the same weekend, and they turned up there with the VL instead.
You mentioned the rallycars a few posts back- as I recall the 84 car(s?) were white with Daily Mirror backing- the Computervision livery didn't appear until 85.
I think there were at least 2 Computervision cars used in 85- a two-car team may have been run on at least one event in the UK. I've got no idea how many rallycars were built, but I think there were a number of different registration numbers used in the A---VUK, A---WOE and B---AOX series-
of course registration numbers can be a particularly unreliable way of identifying individual rallycars...

KA · 18 Apr 2006, 23:06 (Ref:1588123)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...ns+engineering - bottom of the page there's a note about the Tim Slako Rover.
I have heard the same speculations regarding the TWR Commodores continuing the TWR Vitesses, but that only leaves another question! Where do the seven TWR Jaguar XJS's fit in or the group C Jag's for that matter?
The XJS's were numbered 1-7 while the group C/IMSA cars would be named 186 for the first chassis of 1986 and so on. I does give some sence though if you think of the Rovers and Holdens as official factory commisioned cars, while the official group C/IMSA chassis were build by an outside contractor and finally the XJS's started off as a privateer effort.
Jesper
Jesper

With the Group C cars, I'm sure I've read that some chassis were rebuilt to later specifications (for example from XJR8 TO XJR12), and in some (or all?) cases these were given new chassis numbers. If TWR employed the same principle with the touring cars, could there be more chassis number identities than there are actual cars?

**chunterer** · 19 Apr 2006, 12:02 (Ref:1588613)

Oh god!

Just when we thought we might have cracked the basics?!

I think we can assume that as there was an 004 and later an 019, a late 1986 model, that it is highly likely there was consecutive chassis numbers upto 20 TWR Rovers.

What is slightly frustrating is that no one else has come forward with any more details as to what happened to most of the cars after their given year's of competition?

Recap:

We know that 004 ex Sanyo/Mobil/RA Potter went to Europe in 1988, probably with another car (possibly the '86 TT winner) but we don't know what happened to them after that?

Kaj Bornebush's car may well have been an '85 Bastos/Herbie Clips car? so we can assume that its chassis number will have been somewhere between 005-015?

Brain Chatfield purchased one of the '86 Bastos cars so that must have been a late model 017/018?

The one that interests me is that 'Marlboro' Bill Griffin car that breifly appeared in '87 BTCC - does anyone know either Bill or Steve Griffin to check with them?

VIVA GT · 19 Apr 2006, 12:16 (Ref:1588629)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Oh god!

Just when we thought we might have cracked the basics?!

Brain Chatfield purchased one of the '86 Bastos cars so that must have been a late model 017/018?

Just to further cloudy the muddy waters on this one...
Another ex Bastos car was raced by ex-BTCC driver Kevin Eaton in Modified Saloons for a few races. I think at the same time that Brian Chatfield had his, so this must be another one!

Sorry, but this may jog someone's memory...

**chunterer** · 19 Apr 2006, 12:21 (Ref:1588637)

I think I remember, Kevin's the guy who ran ex Graham Goode Bluebird Turbo for a couple of season right? (in itself a car with massive potential that could have gone far with some factory support?)

He didn't have the Rover long though did he?

Jesper OH · 19 Apr 2006, 12:26 (Ref:1588644)

Just as I was about to post this the name of Brian Chatfield appears!

Just remembered an old Autosport adverd - and found it.

Brian Chatfield has an ex-TWR/Bastos car for sale in Autosport March 10 1988, no chassis number mentioned, but there is a picture of one of the '86 ETCC car in Bastos/Texaco livery and #7 on the door. I have no way of telling weather the picture is from an '86 ETCC race or a later Chatfield picture.
Armin Hahne seems to have driven #7 through out the 1986 ETCC with Jean-Louis Schlesser and Gianfranco Brancatelli alternating as co-drivers.

Jesper

**chunterer** · 19 Apr 2006, 13:10 (Ref:1588688)

He ran it in BTCC in1987 and some modsaloon races in '88 as well i think.

I've got some pics somewhere of an all Rover scrap between him, Barry Barnes and Derek Hales at Birmingham Superprix modsaloon race in '87!

I'd love to post my pics on here but i haven't got a scanner for my PC yet( terribly behind i know!).

Perhaps it was the car that Kevin Eaton ran that Viva GT mentions? Kevin may have bought it off of Brian...

KA · 19 Apr 2006, 18:42 (Ref:1588976)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Just as I was about to post this the name of Brian Chatfield appears!
Just remembered an old Autosport adverd - and found it.
Brian Chatfield has an ex-TWR/Bastos car for sale in Autosport March 10 1988, no chassis number mentioned, but there is a picture of one of the '86 ETCC car in Bastos/Texaco livery and #7 on the door. I have no way of telling weather the picture is from an '86 ETCC race or a later Chatfield picture.
Armin Hahne seems to have driven #7 through out the 1986 ETCC with Jean-Louis Schlesser and Gianfranco Brancatelli alternating as co-drivers.
Jesper

I should have several phots of the car in Chatfield's hands, competing in modified saloon and Thundersaloon races at Donington and Silverstone areound 87/8, so may be able to confirm some race numbers- although the only one I can find so far is adistant rear three-quarter view in which the number is obscured by another car...
The livery is clearly Bastos red & white, but withot the signwriting. I'll have a look for the others

**ghinzani** · 19 Apr 2006, 19:23 (Ref:1589012)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

I think I remember, Kevin's the guy who ran ex Graham Goode Bluebird Turbo for a couple of season right? (in itself a car with massive potential that could have gone far with some factory support?)

He didn't have the Rover long though did he?

Viva GT and I arrived at Goodes just after the Bluebird was sold to Kevin Eaton. Agree with your sentiments on that car though, Nissan gave Graham nowt in the way of support, in fact I believe they were anti it being raced. Somewhere I've got some pics of that car with Dave Carvells Rover and Dennis's similar car in parc ferme at Silverstone early on in 87, I'l try and dig them out.

Talking of Nissans lack of spending, is anyone brave enough to start a thread about the Brodes Mitsubishi adventures and the amounts of dough they lashed out? Who remembers the three pointed wheels that cost a fortune and cracked up as soon as they got on track??

Al Weyman · 19 Apr 2006, 19:34 (Ref:1589024)

I have seen several attempts to race Nissan Coupes (same chassis and mechanicals I believe) in the ModProds both turbo charged and 16v normally asperated and they have just not delivered although these were well put together cars so just maybe Nissan knew something.

**ghinzani** · 19 Apr 2006, 19:59 (Ref:1589048)

With respect Al, Graham chose the Bluebird because he thought it had most potential under Group A rules. I believe his results in 84 & 85 back that belief up. I also recall George Fury going well down under with one. Maybe they are'nt so suited to Modprod, but for Group A they were perfect, although the later Skylines are my all time faveourites - the early square sided ones.

Al Weyman · 19 Apr 2006, 20:03 (Ref:1589056)

Yes it would be all about the regs you race to of course. I always thought th coupes would have gone better but maybe it was other factors as well.

**ghinzani** · 19 Apr 2006, 21:10 (Ref:1589123)

Heres the Skyline of which I spoke : http://www.turbocreations.com/fj20/gibsondr30skyline/

**chunterer** · 20 Apr 2006, 08:28 (Ref:1589466)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghinzani

Viva GT and I arrived at Goodes just after the Bluebird was sold to Kevin Eaton. Agree with your sentiments on that car though, Nissan gave Graham nowt in the way of support, in fact I believe they were anti it being raced. Somewhere I've got some pics of that car with Dave Carvells Rover and Dennis's similar car in parc ferme at Silverstone early on in 87, I'l try and dig them out.

Talking of Nissans lack of spending, is anyone brave enough to start a thread about the Brodes Mitsubishi adventures and the amounts of dough they lashed out? Who remembers the three pointed wheels that cost a fortune and cracked up as soon as they got on track??

Hmmm, ah ha, I had a feeling Viva was linked to Graham's operation in some way by the info he has been posting, and now we know you were as well. Great stuff!

The Bluebird line that you take is how I saw it as well, but only as a spectator and enthusiast reading up on it's progress (or lack of it) I wonder if the lack of works assistance was due to the fact that the Skyline was on the horizon and Nissan perhaps only felt it worthwhile homologating one car?

Shame if that's the case otherwise they could have been competitive in 2 classes for a few seasons!!

The 180B would have held it's own against anything up until the M3's arrived i'm sure.

(potential new thread on the variety of Class B/Class 2 homologated cars perhaps?? i'll leave it to you or Viva to start that one as well as the BBR Starion thread maybe??)

I'll have to get a scanner, you guys would love all the old Group A pics I shot a as a lad back in the 80's!!

VIVA GT · 20 Apr 2006, 10:24 (Ref:1589546)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Hmmm, ah ha, I had a feeling Viva was linked to Graham's operation in some way by the info he has been posting, and now we know you were as well. Great stuff!

Looks like Ghinz has blown my cover, oh well!

**chunterer** · 20 Apr 2006, 10:59 (Ref:1589572)

Your secrets will be safe with us!!

**ghinzani** · 20 Apr 2006, 16:03 (Ref:1589843)

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Looks like Ghinz has blown my cover, oh well!

Oh sorry! Did'nt realise the game was subtefuge, Mr Bond!

VIVA GT · 20 Apr 2006, 16:24 (Ref:1589865)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghinzani

Oh sorry! Did'nt realise the game was subtefuge, Mr Bond!

Maybe this is the time for me to reveal your true identity:

CLIFFORD THE LISTERINE DRAGON!

KA · 25 Apr 2006, 12:20 (Ref:1594605)

Been searching through some old photos (still can't find a decent shot of Brian Chatfield's ex-Bastos car...) and turned up a couple of interesting ones- early in the thread, it was suggested that Derek Hales ran the ex-Tim Harvey Istel car in modified saloons- looking at a pic of the Hales car at Brands in the early 90's, the basic colourscheme of white with blue stripes certainly looks like that of the Istel car.
I've also found some pics from a Brands Thundersaloon race, probably around 1990-2 at a guess, which include what looks like an ex-Group A Vitesse, but I can't track down the programme for the meeting to identify it- the car is plain white with 'Corrabox' sponsorship and carries race number 11. Any ideas who, and whether it is a Group A car?
I'll try to post the pics if I can get access to a scanner later this week

redshoes · 28 Apr 2006, 20:21 (Ref:1597158)

#011 has turned up on Race Cars Direct - http://www.racecarsdirect.com/cars/details.asp?id=36191

davyboy · 29 Apr 2006, 08:14 (Ref:1597366)

One for the trivia buffs... who put their SD1 into the pit wall during the 1980s starting sequence of Grandstand ?

**chunterer** · 29 Apr 2006, 09:27 (Ref:1597398)

I remember that one, missed the coverage of the race that the Beeb apparently showed that year (1984 International Trophy support race) but it wasa helluva shunt.

I might have referred to it earlier but Peter Lovett tried to overtake Andy Rouse and accidentally helped poor Rouse off to the right, into the pit wall - the unsighted Phil Dowsett then clattered into the stricken Rover.

How's that?

Rouse's car was nearly written off and I think they only slavaged the engine and built a new rolling chassis!

**chunterer** · 29 Apr 2006, 09:30 (Ref:1597403)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

#011 has turned up on Race Cars Direct - http://www.racecarsdirect.com/cars/details.asp?id=36191

Chassis 011....in 1986

Oh no, back to square one on consecutive chassis numbers matching corresponding years then?!

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