Losing the passion

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by chunder

Some folk seem happy to pay massive money for very little, I get it, if you imagination only goes so far and you have limited interest, off you go.

Since you don't care what any of us think, I'll say that this was the point where the post went from a poor rant into ar*e gravy. If anyone wants to pay more than you do, to get something they enjoy, then they just have a very limited imagination and limited interest. How dare anyone actually enjoying going to see monster LMP1 cars go through the complex at Silverstone - just go watch some bikes on a farm. That's where people with imagination go so as not to ruin the sport for poor people and feed the rich.

Blancpain at Brands Hatch was £28 and free to watch on YouTube. I don't know if free is cheap enough for poor people or not. But I'm sure that's also terrible, as measured by a metric we can't possibly imagine.

[coppice]

More patronising guff from Mr Chunder, the grump who keeps on grumping .

You don't have some sort of exclusive insight on low budget motorsport-in the last 12months I've seen VSCC trials (free), drag racing , Autograss and speed hillclimbs and HSCC/CSCC racing as well as the big ticket events . I've enjoyed them all , and we should celebrate the diversity of what is on offer, whether it's cheap as chips or a big hit to the wallet .



FWIW I enjoyed the Goodwood MM , frost and snow included , as much as any other event, and as somebody who has been watching the sport even longer than you, I suspect , I do have some insight into what makes a good race meeting.



I could do without streams of vitriol directed at anybody who doesn't share your views- and who knows the difference between price and value.



Maybe we just have a whip round, kidnap you and force you to spend a weekend at Goodwood FOC ? Bet you'd still moan...

[chunder]

There is no vitriol

I don't hate anyone. I use strong words to get a point across and make strong arguments for and against people spending their money and what that means for everyone else.

But I do rather dislike those that pay anything for events, because of the precedent you set for the people running those events. It is the modern world, Must have, all about me, etc etc. Not a world I belong to I'm afraid. Means I lose out but I am prepared to to stick to my principles.

It's a simple equation, can we charge more? Yes, why? because there are a percentage that will pay it. Does that exclude others, yes, who cares as we make enough from those that will pay.

Economics you might say.

I have no interest in attending Goodwood events. Why? Because I went for the job interview there once and was treated appallingly by several people, so my reasons for having a poor opinion of the place are very personal, aswell as a couple of poor experiences as a paying punter at one of their events. All my family included in that by the way.

I went to Blancpain at Brands, was appalled at the butchering of the spectator area on the GP loop, the grids were poor and the racing was nothing like as good as it was a couple of years before when I went, so I won't be going again. Simple experience, more expensive ticket for a worse day, whats wrong with that?

As I say, there are several things I do watch, but my keenness for lots of motorsport has been tarnished by several things. Greed from tv people, tracks, organisers. Poor driving, small grids, over reliance on things that mean nothing like brand awareness, PR and hype.

And sadly, the sort of "must be there" attitude of fans, who pay over the odds for things. It's your choice of course, but as I say, I think that also taints the value of some events towards you rather than everyone.

If you are offended at that, then you are very easily offended. But I get it, I am attacking your right to spend your money, Yes I am. But that is my right too. So get over yourself and stop taking this so seriously!

[Akrapovic]

Well, what you actually did was said anyone who thought differently from you lacked imagination. Which is a level of arrogance that's frankly, staggering. How dare anyone enjoy going to Silverstone for WEC or Brands Hatch for Blancpain. They just don't appreciate things like you do I suppose.

[VIVA GT]

OK, time for me to wade in with my opinions!
I think I could be classed as losing the passion for motorsport due to the way my viewing patterns have changed/decreased over the years, but I don't think that is necessarily an accurate way to judge things.
Until I got my own motorised transport what motorsport I could watch was generally limited to that on TV (Grandstand & World of Sport), and I watched everything I could. I did also manage to persuade my Dad, and my sisters boyfriend to take me to Mallory Park to watch it live a couple of times. Then a new car-mad neighbour moved into our street who initially took me further afield to Hednesford Hills raceway to see stock cars and hot rods, before he started to Autocross a car with his mate and I went to every meeting with them.
Once I had the means I attended many a race meeting at Malloey (cars & bikes) plus Donington Park, starting with the first race when it re-opened. Finally travelling further afield (as my road car became more reliable), plus I'd spend 3 or 4 November days following the RAC Rally around the country.
The British Grand Prix was a regular 3 or 4 day camping event from 1978 with a bunch of mates, plus Page & Moy trips to the Le Mans 24 hours. I did a couple of seasons racing a Mini in the early 80's before landing a job with a BTCC Team (which had the added advantage of being at the British Grand Prix anyway!) As an enthusiast I've also enjoyed the spectacle and machinery of a couple of visits to the Festival of Speed
In later years I also travelled around the World for Grand Prix, the Race of Champions and other international meetings, enjoying every single one of them.
Nowadays apart from an invite to the occasional BTCC round my viewing is limited to what is available to me on FTA TV, so I watch nearly every Grand Prix and qualifying, plus the BTCC, and what I can find to watch from Goodwood (and other places) on youtube.
It's not the ticket prices that are preventing me from visiting the events, what I can't afford is the time to attend so much. I'm no longer a selfish single man who can do as I please, I have a home & family and other commitments too. Plus, I am now too old to send 3 days sleeping in the car following the RAC rally cooking on a camping stove, my body would not cope!
I am still passionate about motorsport which is one of the reasons I'm usually on here various times a day. My tastes, priorities and abilities have changed the way I do things over the years. There are many other things I don't do now that I did 40 years ago, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't want to do them again if I could!
(Sorry for the long post, but once I'd started...)

[chunder]

I would suggest that people who ONLY do certain types of events without ever trying other things do lack imagination yes, sorry but that is obvious. Fair enough, they might find all they need watching the stuff they watch.

I used to be the same until I branched out and found stuff, far ore exciting, welcoming, fun, cheap, local, inclusive and generally better.

I wuld be fascinated to know if there are many people who watched racing in the 70's and 80's that still go as much now, still enjoy it as much now, still get the same fever now as they did then.

I would find that very amazing if someone did.

[S griffin]

There are plenty out there who still love the sport and I'm one of them. Yes we all criticise various aspects of the sport, but that shows we care about the sport. We want it to be better if we think it's below standard. And we will still watch it in the meantime

[coppice]

Originally Posted by chunder

I wuld be fascinated to know if there are many people who watched racing in the 70's and 80's that still go as much now, still enjoy it as much now, still get the same fever now as they did then.

I would find that very amazing if someone did.

Prepare to be very amazed. I saw my first racing in the late Sixties and whilst some was great (FF1600 , 1 litre F3 , Special Saloons, F5000 , F2 ) a fair amount was bedevilled by thin grids and chaotic organisation. What we didn't have then was a thriving historic scene - and I have seen far more 250GTOs , 250 SWBs, T70s , Cobras and 26Rs than I ever did back in the day.



What I don't like now are spec formulae, the unhealthy obsession with safety cars/Code 60 , and a near total lack of modern single seater racing .Having the opportunity to enjoy F2, F5000 and even domestic F1 at a circuit near you was heaven. And rallying is missing ,presumed dead- crap cars, no access to stages and thin entries are a mockery of what I loved in the 70s and 80s.



But I defy anyone not to attend HSCC Cadwell or CSCC Oulton or Thruxton and not have the best of days . And BTCC may be a crash bang wallopfest but it is far better than the sight of watching a couple of Camaros disappear into the distance ever was . And a big Autograss meeting , VSCC Harewood , Santa Pod Euro Finals - etc. Or ..err.. whisper it ..Goodwood MM



Look- and ye shall find

[Akrapovic]

Yeah but you lack imagination.

[Adam43]

We know that going to expensive events and enjoying them is not a good thing, but what if you go to free events and events that cost £100? And enjoy them all? Is that allowed? Does it lack imagination or ruin society?

[Alfaholic]

Originally Posted by chunder

I would suggest that people who ONLY do certain types of events without ever trying other things do lack imagination yes, sorry but that is obvious. Fair enough, they might find all they need watching the stuff they watch.

I used to be the same until I branched out and found stuff, far ore exciting, welcoming, fun, cheap, local, inclusive and generally better.

I wuld be fascinated to know if there are many people who watched racing in the 70's and 80's that still go as much now, still enjoy it as much now, still get the same fever now as they did then.

I would find that very amazing if someone did.

That would be me then.

I started in the late '70s cycling the 15 mile round trip to Foxhall Heath to watch whatever Spedeworth were putting on when I had eough pocket or paper round money (by the way, current ticket prices there are higher than a clubbie at Silverstone!).

Nowadays I'm at Silverstone, Brands Hatch, Snetterton, Donington or Roickingham (RIP) most weekends when I'm not working. I don't do the 'name' events simply due to cost, and will quite happily spend 3 days wandering around Silverstone for the FIA WEC. Last weekend for example I was at Silverstone for the HSCC finals on Saturday, then Brands Hatch on Sunday for the FF Festival.

[chunder]

Fair play to you.

If you can maintain an interest now after watching in those freer times I applaud you, and wonder at your sanity.

I lack the enthusiasm to floow a lot of stuff I once did, mainly through the way the sport is run, the tv money, the way series are hailed then pulled down by manufacturers. It is just disappointing.

I watch less stuff than I did because of this, but tend to watch things away from the norm, as you say, things away from circuit racing mainly. Stage rallying and especially single venue stuff has been utterly ruined as a casual spectator sport, even things like autograss, once the haven of ingenuity are now often identikit cars racing round a field.

it is tough ti find stuff in the UK, I wish I could be arsed to travel more in Europe, Berg Cup, stage rallying in germany, France, Holland, Belgium are all so much more accessible, friendly than over here.

I guess that's the answer, I think my interest in UK motorsport is at al all time low, I find most of it puts me off for the reasons you know, and I find it staggering that other people seem to think its amazing.

Its as simple as that.

And you've made your point cleverdick, leave it at that eh.

[loon]

there is so much free motorsport, just look on youtube or facebook,Japanese, Argentinian anything you fancy only thing I don't watch anymore is F1

[Alfaholic]

Originally Posted by chunder

Fair play to you.

If you can maintain an interest now after watching in those freer times I applaud you, and wonder at your sanity.

I lack the enthusiasm to floow a lot of stuff I once did, mainly through the way the sport is run, the tv money, the way series are hailed then pulled down by manufacturers. It is just disappointing.

I watch less stuff than I did because of this, but tend to watch things away from the norm, as you say, things away from circuit racing mainly. Stage rallying and especially single venue stuff has been utterly ruined as a casual spectator sport, even things like autograss, once the haven of ingenuity are now often identikit cars racing round a field.

it is tough ti find stuff in the UK, I wish I could be arsed to travel more in Europe, Berg Cup, stage rallying in germany, France, Holland, Belgium are all so much more accessible, friendly than over here.

I guess that's the answer, I think my interest in UK motorsport is at al all time low, I find most of it puts me off for the reasons you know, and I find it staggering that other people seem to think its amazing.

Its as simple as that.

And you've made your point cleverdick, leave it at that eh.

My sanity is perfectly OK thank you, it's yours I worry about being so thouroughly miserable and negative about everything all the time.

And as for "cleverdick" insult - that just about sums your level up. I'd put you on ignore, but it would ruin the flow of some threads.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by chunder

I would suggest that people who ONLY do certain types of events without ever trying other things do lack imagination yes, sorry but that is obvious. Fair enough, they might find all they need watching the stuff they watch.
.

Exactly so. I do. (And you know full well to what I refer). But to accuse whoever of lacking imagination - when did imagination become a prerequisite to having a great time at an event? I go to an event every year and I have a fantastic time at what I consider to be an amazingly low price. Like you, I don't give a rat's arse what anyone else thinks about my taste in motor racing (or anything else for that matter).

[Down F0rce]

I'm sure there were people in the 70's and 80's clamouring for the old days too, not enjoying the cars, saying it was all too safe, or ticket prices being to high etc etc.

They just didn't have the internet to broadcast their opinions and to try and seek validation from others. They just got on with and found other things to enjoy. Now in the Facebook era, complaining about things is a hobby in itself.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Down F0rce

Now in the Facebook era, complaining about things is a hobby in itself.

Oh isn't it just! I don't know if it's the same across the entire English speaking community, or just the UK, we but can literally moan for England and take great delight in doing so. We are the nation of the glass half empty who as you say, have a need to seek validation for our misery from the rest of the population.....

[chunder]

Lol, you people are hilarious you really are.

You do realise that this is a forum, endless backslapping, niceties and love you love you is about as dull as dishwater. I know it goes on on Ayes lovely LM threads hence why I don't go on there, it's like being in a happy clappy Church of England group, but whatever, I went there this year and would never go back sorry, it was garbage, had more fun in fields in Kent thanks.

You all get so high and mighty about your chosen things, but you rarely criticise anything.

Presumably you either love everything, or you feel that being critical is bad.

WRONG. It simply is a way of venting your frustrations, what is the title of this bloody thread, losing the passion, the perfect place to air those views.

I watch less and less of this stuff now because i have lost a lot of my passion, and it's not because I want to, it is because of other people ruining it! If I had a teleporter I would be fine, could go off to loads of places and watch cool stuff, but a lot of things in the UK have simply been drained of their watch-ability, priced out of the market, ruined by tv, hosting rights, rulemakers.

If you don't think so, all well and good, as I say i couldn't give a stuff, but don't have a pop at me for giving the reasons why, even if it attacks your precious loves. Whether you like it or not, they are vaild reasons, you might not like them, but thats your problem, not mine.

[coppice]

Ah well , in view of your revelation about applying for a job at Goodwood I am enjoying the prospect of the parallel universe , far , far away, where you actually got the job. I'd then be reading your upbeat press releases about the next Revival.



Sadly ,we're saddled with an endless cycle of gloom instead . Chin up - we're only talking about blokes messing round with cars after all ...

[Racer65]

Originally Posted by chunder

You can spend your money on what you want of course, if you think 100 quid to watch a load of rich men ambling round Goodwood in winter is fine, who is stopping you. But maybe stop and think about the precedent you are setting for future generations.

Why single out motorsport, especially when you can watch a whole days club racing for £10 and some major events for £25?

People are perfectly happy to fork out way in excess of £100 to go to theme parks and other attractions not to mention on a night out so I suspect it's you who is out of touch with what the average person is prepared to spend on entertainment.

Now if you want to talk about the amount of money some competitors are spending then that is somewhere where spending is getting totally out of whack with what the average joe can afford.

[S griffin]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&so...40453522878473

I think this sums up what a certain someone is saying on this thread

[justracing]

Originally Posted by chunder

I watch less and less of this stuff now because i have lost a lot of my passion, and it's not because I want to, it is because of other people ruining it

£199 for a season ticket at Brands encompassing all motor sport events is pretty good value to me having subscribed since the season tickets were first introduced and compares very favourably with alternative sporting activities in which I have little or no interest.
Personally my own passion for motorsport has never really waned over 50+ years and I still attend events most weekends from March to November, it gets a bit sketchy in the winter months and I have been known to attend 750MC mud pluggers and short oval racing along with any rallying within reasonable reach throughout the "off" season but then I am passionate about motorsport. Many times I have doubled up between Thruxton/Brands/Castle Combe/Lydden on Saturday/Sunday and for several years I have done voluntary work at Goodwood in exchange for a Revival pass. I have done British and European GP's and Le Mans more times than I care to remember and even managed a stop off at Daytona one year to watch the opening race of the NASCAR season, I am a racing fan.
If your interests lie elsewhere best find an alternative pastime to fill the void. Nobody is ruining anything, it's just change over a period of time.

[bella]

i think if all you're going to do is sit in a deckchair and watch the racing go past you're probably best off going to a football match. but if you're interesting in exactly what people are running, and chatting to the people who run them there's plenty of good stuff around. on two and four wheels.

the big money stuff is ok, but if you're looking to rekindle your passion you need to go to something where there's passion and nobody's working on a car for coin, they're doing it because they love it.

[chunder]

I think in reality it is simply that a lot of series I have watched closely over the years have been ruined by over zealous new owners.

I used to love f1, rallycross, rallying.

And they have all been changed in my opinion for the worst. Rallying at WRC level is OK, but hell that's a once a year thing and sadly I can remember being able to watch for free, so having to pay is a bummer. And at club level, it's become unwatchable really. F1 again, always been expensive, but when I can't even bear to watch on telly, I know something is wrong!

I think also, simply put, you realise after time you are being mugged off. Going to events, not being able to walk everywhere within reason, not allowed to go in the pits coz I havent got a pass or am not bonking someone famous (but oh you can buy one for ever more money) OTT ticket prices for events, not because they are great but because someone wants to make a bunch of money out of people.

That offends me I am afraid and takes the edge off. So yes, you find new things, you realise what you have been missing to a certain extent in other walks of life and in my case feel rather stupid that you wasted so much time giving money to people who don't give the slightest toss about you, you are a commodity to be bled dry.

Enough is enough in most cases.

[justracing]