ALMS 2012 Discussion

[Anonymous]

I have been browsing this forum for some time and was intrigued by this thread so I decided to register and make a post.

As much as it pains me to say it I am afraid that the ALMS series will be be forced to shut down and will reappear as a new series or merge with Rolex Grand-Am within the next year or two. ALMS has no money and if Ed Brown bows out there won't be anyone to keep the series afloat. Unfortunately this year they didn't have enough money to get a good TV contract, even more unfortunate is that from a fan perspective they can't afford to not have a good TV contract. ESPN3 is worthless for building a larger fan base. Only the diehards are going to tune in and the series can survive on those select few alone, they need to generate new fans.

If/when Ed leaves ESM will seize to exist or move to Rolex. Robertson will run Petit but will then be finished. With the 458 in Rolex Risi will also jump ship knowing that the end is near. RLL could easily switch to Rolex even though they would probably prefer to stay with ALMS, Corvette is the same. With all of those teams gone you are basically left with a Porsche Cup race in the GT ranks. With Audi and Ferrari moving to Rolex it will make the series even more interesting for spectators.

Level 5 will run WEC. Autocon won't be back leaving only 3 LMP cars, 4 if Dyson picks up a 3rd. Nobody is going to tune in to see Dyson racing himself. I think LMPC is a great class but the people that are interested in spec racing are watching NASCAR not sports car racing, not sure what will happen to it.

I don't think anyone gets excited about DPs but the new look will go a long way towards winning some new fans. What makes prototype racing exciting is the unique cars. The current DP and LMPC cars don't offer that. To make it interesting they need to let people be creative. Creative doesn't mean unlimited., unlimited will never fly, not in this economy. Let the LMP1 class become a manufacturers class and be less limited. With Porsche, Jag and Toyota interested it shouldn't be hard to generate a good field.

Another unfortunate part is that there is zero chance that NASCAR and the ACO/FIA will see eye to eye which could ultimately make it difficult for team to get cars to Le Mans. Rolex would have to allow for time in the schedule and work with the ACO on rules.

[Tony C]

Originally Posted by rich07

Not knowing the full capabilities i.e manpower, could Risi do both? Run the Grand Am programme which in turn funds the ALMS programme and Risi possibly return to Le Mans? Im sure Ferrari would be disappointed if Risi left ALMS too.

Excuse my ignorance but how/why would running in Grand Am fund a team in ALMS? Is GA paying big to get entries?

[arakis]

Originally Posted by Tony C

Excuse my ignorance but how/why would running in Grand Am fund a team in ALMS? Is GA paying big to get entries?

Ferrari of ft.loterdale wants to run a car in Grand Am, but there is a lot of speculation taht they are gonna pay someone else to do it, namely risi, so the idea was that risi uses that chash,well not the full sum but the funds paid to them for the assistance, and invests it into ALMS.

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by arakis

Ferrari of ft.loterdale wants to run a car in Grand Am, but there is a lot of speculation taht they are gonna pay someone else to do it, namely risi, so the idea was that risi uses that chash,well not the full sum but the funds paid to them for the assistance, and invests it into ALMS.

I would love to see a Flying Lizards DP stay together and spank the field, while using the money to invest in ALMS!

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

I would love to see a Flying Lizards DP stay together and spank the field, while using the money to invest in ALMS!

Not going to happen with Admiral Neiman driving.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Greg Pickett

This sanctioning body [IMSA] has got to do what’s right for prototype racing in America

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...p1-equivalency

It seems as though Pickett is saying, fix the rules or don't see me back....

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

It seems as though Pickett is saying, fix the rules or don't see me back....

What? When I saw that title I was expecting to have him moaning about performance balancing in general, but instead it's the everlasting diesel-petrol equivalency! The whole mess is ACO's problem, not IMSA's!


And IMSA can't magically give their petrol cars 200kg weight reductions and 10mm restrictor breaks when diesels come to visit

[MitchZ06]

10mm restrictor break next race, 15mm break the next, PLM and a Dyson Lola driven by a Kane/Al Masood combo could win

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Chiana

What? When I saw that title I was expecting to have him moaning about performance balancing in general, but instead it's the everlasting diesel-petrol equivalency! The whole mess is ACO's problem, not IMSA's!


And IMSA can't magically give their petrol cars 200kg weight reductions and 10mm restrictor breaks when diesels come to visit

IMSA can do what they want with rules at their races. If the ACO doesn't like it, they can take their toys home for all I care. The issue is indeed the ACO's rules, but then if the ACO can't fix it, and it is going to be detrimental to racing in North America, then it most certainly is a problem for IMSA. Dump the ACO for crying out loud.

[JAG]

It will be more interesting to see what the gap is, if any, between Muscle Milk, Dyson and the WEC petrol regulars.

[Deleted]

They have received more restrictor breaks during this season than the European petrol counterparts (that I know of) so I'd expect Cytosport and Dyson to do fairly well at Petit. As for next year well nothing's granted.

IMSA can do what they want with rules at their races. If the ACO doesn't like it, they can take their toys home for all I care. The issue is indeed the ACO's rules, but then if the ACO can't fix it, and it is going to be detrimental to racing in North America, then it most certainly is a problem for IMSA. Dump the ACO for crying out loud.

Even if IMSA wanted to create equivalency, it would be extremely difficult - and those changes would have to be applied to WEC P1 petrol entries as well when they come to visit (otherwise it would just look ridiculous, P1 divided into three sub classes). Obviously they'd be not allowed to issue handicaps to diesel-crybabies...

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

IMSA can do what they want with rules at their races. If the ACO doesn't like it, they can take their toys home for all I care. The issue is indeed the ACO's rules, but then if the ACO can't fix it, and it is going to be detrimental to racing in North America, then it most certainly is a problem for IMSA. Dump the ACO for crying out loud.

I think IMSA should test some LMP1 adjustments for Petit. Maybe something along the lines of weight and restrictor breaks for all petrol P1 cars. When the petrol cars are as fast as the diesels IMSA can use that as a bargaining point to try and attract more teams into P1 next season. I see unlimited potential in that strategy.

[Mal]

You have to laugh at his comment about Dave Richards 25 million investment being ruined by the equivelancy rules - nothing to do with the white elephant he built.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Mal

You have to laugh at his comment about Dave Richards 25 million investment being ruined by the equivelancy rules - nothing to do with the white elephant he built.

If the car had been anywhere near competitive with any other P1....

[JAG]

Originally Posted by joeb

I think IMSA should test some LMP1 adjustments for Petit. Maybe something along the lines of weight and restrictor breaks for all petrol P1 cars. When the petrol cars are as fast as the diesels IMSA can use that as a bargaining point to try and attract more teams into P1 next season. I see unlimited potential in that strategy.

The ALMS hasn't had season long diesel competition since 2008 and IMSA ensured they were far from dominant.

Since, the series has operated an open door policy allowing everything from Dyson's hybrid P1/P2 to unhomolgated GT's. The series is wide open for a manufactuer or pro team to clean up in P1 and an open goal in P2.

ALMS entrants only incentive for equivalency is if they are competing against diesel competion, that would likely only happen if ACO regs were in place.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

ALMS entrants only incentive for equivalency is if they are competing against diesel competion, that would only happen if ACO regs were in place.

Which they are for WEC events... It is clear there is no equivalency... This is an ultimatum.

[Coach Ep]

And very well timed as well with the ACO-IMSA contract still to be renewed.

The writing is on the wall, ACO will not allow anything other than a ILMC diesel car to win PLM (and we can rule out Oreca as well), so no breaks for petrol P1´s. I´d say there will be no American Le Mans Series next year. Sebring could be a stand-alone event for the WEC but not the 12 hours.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Which they are for WEC events... It is clear there is no equivalency... This is an ultimatum.

The ALMS is stuck between a rock and a hard place, they can appease their two P1 teams or lose WEC rounds.

Without commitments from more teams the ALMS has little bargaining power, I would think it's more likely Sebring becomes independant* and aligns with the WEC rather than see it's renewed significance diminished.

Daytona and GA have the resources to implement their own regs, I'm not sure Panoz has the financial means or desire to start from scratch.

*Involving a tricky divorce or takeover.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

And very well timed as well with the ACO-IMSA contract still to be renewed.

The writing is on the wall, ACO will not allow anything other than a ILMC diesel car to win PLM (and we can rule out Oreca as well), so no breaks for petrol P1´s. I´d say there will be no American Le Mans Series next year. Sebring could be a stand-alone event for the WEC but not the 12 hours.

I think it would be a hell of a move for IMSA to let Dyson, AutoCon, and Cytosport run at 850kg and with 2008-level restrictors just to give them a chance at walloping the factory diesels. Do that, have Cytosport win Petit overall and give the one-finger salute to the ACO.

Originally Posted by JAG

The ALMS is stuck between a rock and a hard place, they can appease their two P1 teams or lose WEC rounds.

Without commitments from more teams the ALMS has little bargaining power, I would think it's more likely Sebring becomes independant* and aligns with the WEC rather than see it's renewed significance diminished.

*Which would involve a tricky divorce or takeover.

There is nothing tricky about this. Say goodbye to the ACO, make faster, sexy, loud prototypes that still draw 200 000 people to Sebring and many international viewers and attendees and you have half the battle of launching the post-ALMS IMSA series won. Sebring remains one of the world's most prestigious races, hardly misses a beat! The fans stuck with it in 2009 when thanks to ACO rules (and a lack of foresight and self-determination from IMSA) 26 cars took the start... I say get control of your home, IMSA! Far better off than following the ACO rules.

I'm not poo-pooing the ACO, but American racing shouldn't have to play second fiddle to European racing. The ACO was able to build the Le Mans brand to the level it is at now with no small part done by IMSA. Now that they are big the ACO, as it has the right to do, is positioning itself for a global championship for the good of Le Mans. That's fine, but IMSA is being hurt in the process. It was a great partnership, the 2007 and 2008 American Le Mans Series seasons were two of the best in racing history. But IMSA's product should not have to suffer of play second fiddle because the ACO wants it to. Thanks for the memories, we still love your big race, hell I'm sure many Braselburgers will watch the entire WEC with interest knowing many, many friends are involved. But now is the time (critical, critical time) to take control of your own home so you aren't further weakened.

Chris

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Say goodbye to the ACO, make faster, sexy, loud prototypes that still draw 200 000 people to Sebring and many international viewers and attendees and you have half the battle of launching the post-ALMS IMSA series won.

Why would you need to make petrols faster if in fact you are quitting the partnership with ACO? No ACO involment, no diesels.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

The ALMS is stuck between a rock and a hard place, they can appease their two P1 teams or lose WEC rounds.

Without commitments from more teams the ALMS has little bargaining power, I would think it's more likely Sebring becomes independant* and aligns with the WEC rather than see it's renewed significance diminished.

Daytona and GA have the resources to implement their own regs, I'm not sure Panoz has the financial means or desire to start from scratch.

*Involving a tricky divorce or takeover.

Appease their two teams, plus others that have quit over the years for the same reason. Or lose WEC ROUND... not rounds... there will likely just be one.

If the Owner of the series ends their relationship with the ACO, why on earth would the same owners then give one of their premier races, Sebring to the competition? You do realize that Panoz Inc. owns the lease to Sebring right?

Regulations do not need to start from scratch... use the ACO's, modified for your own purposes. I think the IMSA officials are qualified to do this.

[Speed-King]

plus others that have quit over the years for the same reason.

Who of those does still have an actual team left, though?

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Why would you need to make petrols faster if in fact you are quitting the partnership with ACO? No ACO involment, no diesels.

From my perspective, the purpose is to whoop the ACO and use that as a springboard to faster, American-centric racing.

Chris

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Who of those does still have an actual team left, though?

Irrelevant... the point is that many people have left the sport, or chosen to to race in the ALMS at times because they cannot compete. If you have the money to compete, a team can be put together rather quickly.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

I think it would be a hell of a move for IMSA to let Dyson, AutoCon, and Cytosport run at 850kg and with 2008-level restrictors just to give them a chance at walloping the factory diesels. Do that, have Cytosport win Petit overall and give the one-finger salute to the ACO.

Agreed, although 2010 rules could be enough - Pickett & co want a fair chance, no garanteed win (although I´m sure they wouldn´t say if they were presented the opportunity). Bigger restrictors and fuel tanks is all they need.

Ain´t gonna happen though.

Originally Posted by Jonerz

There is nothing tricky about this. Say goodbye to the ACO, make faster, sexy, loud prototypes that still draw 200 000 people to Sebring and many international viewers and attendees and you have half the battle of launching the post-ALMS IMSA series won. Sebring remains one of the world's most prestigious races, hardly misses a beat! The fans stuck with it in 2009 when thanks to ACO rules (and a lack of foresight and self-determination from IMSA) 26 cars took the start... I say get control of your home, IMSA! Far better off than following the ACO rules.

I'm not poo-pooing the ACO, but American racing shouldn't have to play second fiddle to European racing. The ACO was able to build the Le Mans brand to the level it is at now with no small part done by IMSA. Now that they are big the ACO, as it has the right to do, is positioning itself for a global championship for the good of Le Mans. That's fine, but IMSA is being hurt in the process. It was a great partnership, the 2007 and 2008 American Le Mans Series seasons were two of the best in racing history. But IMSA's product should not have to suffer of play second fiddle because the ACO wants it to. Thanks for the memories, we still love your big race, hell I'm sure many Braselburgers will watch the entire WEC with interest knowing many, many friends are involved. But now is the time (critical, critical time) to take control of your own home so you aren't further weakened.

Therefor a seperate WEC round at Sebring could make sense if the marriage comes to an end.

Originally Posted by Chiana

Why would you need to make petrols faster if in fact you are quitting the partnership with ACO? No ACO involment, no diesels.

Correct, this will give IMSA runners the opportunity to join WEC on chosen occasions (not sure if they wanna do that with the diesel cars probably still being favoured by the ACO).