Why is it so hard to warm to the likes of Whincup (and Vettel)?

[Langers]

Originally Posted by djr81

Um, did you watch the Sunday races? Roland Dane carrying on like a pork chop about FPR's pitstops being too early to be in the pit window. I thought Edwards was pretty restrained in explaining why Dane was wrong.

He's allowed to make mistakes because he wins championships - repeatedly.

[promax]

Originally Posted by djr81

Maybe so but crowd reaction is telling. I went to the Sunday races this year at Wanneroo. When Lowndes put the thing into the lead the crowd made a huge amount of noise. When Whincup did the same you could near on hear crickets. Guessing if it wasnt for Lowndes RBRA wouldnt have much in the way of crowd support.

err cause Lowndes is the more popular driver

dude, try to keep up

[fomoco]

I will go out on a limb here, and suggest , Frosty should join this list as well, wether ppl like it or not, Will D did have the goods on him except for team stacking, stupid wheel nuts , (Positions Vacant at FPR, Nash/French Racing- Some one who knows wheel nuts) .

Sorry cant warm to Frosty either, to soft, been pedalling around for years, won DV series, and one Bathurst, also throw in Tim Edwards, F-Me, how long does it take to work out who was the number one and why has this guy still got a job.

[JT.]

Whincup lost me when he 1st signed with 888 & was intervied on RPM.
he was asked some stupid question along the lines of what he regretted & his response was "driving a Holden".
then he had a hissy fit at Roland about selling set-up data to DJR & had to be put back in his box.
then lo and behold, 888 changes manufacturers from ford to holden & sure enough he bags out ford. so in my mind he is an arrogant smart-ass.

[djr81]

Originally Posted by promax

err cause Lowndes is the more popular driver

dude, try to keep up

Oh dear. The point was not that Lowndes was more popular but the extent to which an obviously slower driver who has won very little whilst his team mate has stacked up poles, championships, Bathurst wins, fastest laps etc etc is massively more popular.

The question is really: If it werent for Lowndes fan base why would 888 keep him on? You could make the argument he has been underachieving for years.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by djr81

Oh dear. The point was not that Lowndes was more popular but the extent to which an obviously slower driver who has won very little whilst his team mate has stacked up poles, championships, Bathurst wins, fastest laps etc etc is massively more popular.

The question is really: If it werent for Lowndes fan base why would 888 keep him on? You could make the argument he has been underachieving for years.

Id like to see you try and make that argument.

Not sure you would get any support.


However Lowndes fan base is very important to the team. Its part of what what brought Vodaphone to the team and i woudl expect Red Bull also

[djr81]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Id like to see you try and make that argument.

Not sure you would get any support.


However Lowndes fan base is very important to the team. Its part of what what brought Vodaphone to the team and i woudl expect Red Bull also

Well ok. For the sake of the argument (Not because I want to believe it)

Head to head
Of 34 quali's - Whincup beat Lowndes 24 to 10.
Of 5 top ten shootouts Whincup beat Lowndes 4 -1 (Whincup didnt appear in the one Lowndes won so 4-0?)
Of 24 races (Not including the Sandown Saturday stuff) Whincup beat Lowndes 26 to 8 - Whincup had 3 DNF's Lowndes 0, so you could say 26 to 5.

Whincup won 12 races.
Lowndes won 4.

Whincup had 24 podiums.
Lowndes had 12.

So - underachieving? Not quite a Ric vs Todd or Chas vs Tim but not pretty.

I reckon Lowndes is hugely important to the team commercially because I dont reckon many people would care for 888 boorish behaviour otherwise.

[Woolcor]

Is it because of the team they drive for?

If Jamie Whincup was winning while driving for DJR or Techno for example, or Vettel for Sauber or Force India, would we like them more? Maybe it's something to do with the media infatuation, or the global giant as a sponsor, or the rich, well funded team with unlimietd resources that puts some of us off. Or maybe it's because we get bored of seing the same guys win so comfortably that we yearn for variety and wish someone would punt them into a wall some days just to give us a different experience to the one we've sat through for the past 5 years.

[Gaz170]

Originally Posted by Woolcor

Or maybe it's because we get bored of seing the same guys win so comfortably that we yearn for variety and wish someone would punt them into a wall some days just to give us a different experience to the one we've sat through for the past 5 years.

[JacobP]

Well, it is clear that Vettel and Whincup rubbed a lot of fans the wrong way simply by being so dominant over the rest of field. After seeing Whincup win 3 out of 4 races in Austin, even I was a little disappointed (but overall loved the race, and seeing V8SCs in America, probably the first and last time).

What's bizzare is that this irritation with a single driver's dominance eventually translates into a fierce dislike of the driver itself. Some myths surrounding Vettel and RedBull have reached absurd proportions this year. For example on many web sites, specially where people can post quasi-anonymously (e.g. Jalopnik), it has almost become like a meme to say things like:

"Red Bull cheats"
"Vettel's car is better than Webber's"
"Webber's car is sabotaged to make it always start slower/have KERS failure"
"Vettel is using launch control and traction control, while Webber is not allowed to use it"
"Vettel is doing something cheaty because it's impossible to have an X second lead after the first lap"
etc

I really get sick from reading this BS. If people feel irritated by a single team or driver dominate, they should look at the system that led to this, not one specific driver.

[JacobP]

Originally Posted by Malfunction Junction

I find Whincup a great deal easier to watch than Vettel for a couple of main reasons;

JW respects his team and his team mate. SV doesn't and never has done. He was always the same, whoever his teammate was. A lot like Senna, he's an amazing talent, but the flaws in his personality are so wide and deep he leaves me cold in the same way.

Vettel is showing some signs of childish immaturity, but I think he will get better, more mature with time. Sticking that finger is like saying everyone "I told you so", while fans are in disbelief knowing the advantage that Vettel enjoys in his RedBull car. He needs a little more humility, e.g. by publicly thanking the team more often rather than showing his finger.

However, I wouldn't consider Vettel to be a lot like Senna. Senna is the man who intentionally crashed into Prost, and years later punched a lap car driver in the face for overtaking him. Among the current crop of F1 drivers, I think Maldonado is the one has some of Senna's bad personality traits more than anyone else.

[Chatters]

I found myself pondering this very question during the year. The thing about guys like Vettel, Whincup, Schumacher (in his day) is that to the outsider, the races do seem boring. It's not until you actually take the time to appreciate the level of commitment, dedication and skill that those guys are displaying to win multiple races and championships that you warm to them.

The way I look at is that if you can't appreciate the driver, appreciate the drive itself. The kind of domination we are seeing with Whincup and Vettel at the moment is something that will be talked about for decades to come, and to be able to witness history like this gives me a big thrill.

[Umai Naa]

Spot-on.

I was too young, or not even born to see the likes of Brock, Moffat, and Johnson at their peak. Also fell out of love with V8SC when HRT dominated in the late '90s/early '00s.

Seeing Whincup's success now, is awe-inspiring, and whether you like him or loathe him, it'll be talked about for a very long time.