Group A Volvo 240 - Info and pics thread

[Splendid Cat]

Originally Posted by VolvoGroupA

I take it that you don't know German? This model is the prototype model, so I guess you just were bored and didnt got any thing better to do then to complain. Well if you are going to make that kind of comments, keep them to your self cause no one wants to hear about it...

Aah, silly me! You shoulda said that, accepting the "impressive detail" claim, you were aware of the obvious mistakes and, panic yea notte, they would be remedied.

If you're big something up and claim "nothing is forgotten" make sure you can support it. That's all.

My guess is that you're a little, ahem, embarrassed that you didn't see it yourself.

Not to worry, never personal. At least you Swedish live in a beautiful country with fabulous women.

[chunterer]

Ok, let that be the end of this little episode please Volvo and splendid.

This is a discussion forum not a points scoring exercise!!

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Ok, let that be the end of this little episode please Volvo and splendid.

This is a discussion forum not a points scoring excercise!!

My point too, but lacking the words.

To lead the thread back on track I would like to ask about the Ruedi Eggenberger year, 1985. By then the Swiss was an aknowledged master of both the European championship and Group A regulations with some kind of inside look at BMW Motorsport. Hired by Volvo he brought home the '85 drivers title with Gianfranco Brancatelli and Thomas Lindström (but lost the division 3 manufactures title to arch rival Rover), but felt strangled by interference by Volvo Motorsport in Göteborg/Gothenburg and left at a late stage before the 1986 season to join Ford.

From the Group 2 days Eggenberger had fielded cars under the BMW Italia name as well as under his own Eggenberger Motorsport and still did so by 1984. But when did Volvo approach him about 1985 and when was a deal signed? Eggenberger retained the driving services of Gianfranco Brancatelli and Sigi Müller junior into the new season.

For 1985 Volvo Motorsport seems to have streamlined their ETCC from four semi factory cars of 1984 to two factory cars and a semi-privateer car in 1985.
The Belgian Guy Trigaux/Michel Delcourt two car effort was axed but Pierre Diedonné employed as new Eggenberger driver partnering Müller (vaguely remembering this to be a reunion!). Of the two Swedish teams, the Thomas Lindström father-and-son effort was "rested" for '85 with cars sold off to Finland and Portugal and Thomas moving to the Eggenberger team too. Magnum Racing of Magnus Magnusson was retained on a semi-factory basis with continuing with Ulf Granberg as main driver, supported variously by Anders Olofsson and Ingvar Carlsson but also others.

Eggenberger Motorsport seemed to be a relative prolific car builder during the Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth days that followed in a few years, and looking at the numbers of CiBiEmme Sport BMW 635CSi in former BMW Italia-colours racing alongside the Swiss Volvos would suggest that a fair few of these were build too. But how many Volvos were build for and during 1985? I have seen no reference to Eggenberger Volvos being ex-something or for that matter that later Volvos were ex-Eggenberger. Did RAS Sport build their own cars - they had little time to do so as I understand it - or was this rejigged Eggenberger cars, as an example.

Hope this question will get things back on track

Jesper

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

My point too, but lacking the words.

Eggenberger Motorsport seemed to be a relative prolific car builder during the Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth days that followed in a few years, and looking at the numbers of CiBiEmme Sport BMW 635CSi in former BMW Italia-colours racing alongside the Swiss Volvos would suggest that a fair few of these were build too. But how many Volvos were build for and during 1985? I have seen no reference to Eggenberger Volvos being ex-something or for that matter that later Volvos were ex-Eggenberger. Did RAS Sport build their own cars - they had little time to do so as I understand it - or was this rejigged Eggenberger cars, as an example.

Hope this question will get things back on track

Jesper

Good questions. By my reckoning there were something like 4 Volvo's built for '85, one was badly trashed early in the season and another car later in the year IIRC?

I also have a vague suspicion that the cars may actually have been 'owned' by Volvo and that at least 2 of them formed the backbone of the '86 RAS attack? Need this clarifying though.

[VolvoGroupA]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

My point too, but lacking the words.

To lead the thread back on track I would like to ask about the Ruedi Eggenberger year, 1985. By then the Swiss was an aknowledged master of both the European championship and Group A regulations with some kind of inside look at BMW Motorsport. Hired by Volvo he brought home the '85 drivers title with Gianfranco Brancatelli and Thomas Lindström (but lost the division 3 manufactures title to arch rival Rover), but felt strangled by interference by Volvo Motorsport in Göteborg/Gothenburg and left at a late stage before the 1986 season to join Ford.

From the Group 2 days Eggenberger had fielded cars under the BMW Italia name as well as under his own Eggenberger Motorsport and still did so by 1984. But when did Volvo approach him about 1985 and when was a deal signed? Eggenberger retained the driving services of Gianfranco Brancatelli and Sigi Müller junior into the new season.

For 1985 Volvo Motorsport seems to have streamlined their ETCC from four semi factory cars of 1984 to two factory cars and a semi-privateer car in 1985.
The Belgian Guy Trigaux/Michel Delcourt two car effort was axed but Pierre Diedonné employed as new Eggenberger driver partnering Müller (vaguely remembering this to be a reunion!). Of the two Swedish teams, the Thomas Lindström father-and-son effort was "rested" for '85 with cars sold off to Finland and Portugal and Thomas moving to the Eggenberger team too. Magnum Racing of Magnus Magnusson was retained on a semi-factory basis with continuing with Ulf Granberg as main driver, supported variously by Anders Olofsson and Ingvar Carlsson but also others.

Eggenberger Motorsport seemed to be a relative prolific car builder during the Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth days that followed in a few years, and looking at the numbers of CiBiEmme Sport BMW 635CSi in former BMW Italia-colours racing alongside the Swiss Volvos would suggest that a fair few of these were build too. But how many Volvos were build for and during 1985? I have seen no reference to Eggenberger Volvos being ex-something or for that matter that later Volvos were ex-Eggenberger. Did RAS Sport build their own cars - they had little time to do so as I understand it - or was this rejigged Eggenberger cars, as an example.

Hope this question will get things back on track

Jesper

Hi Jesper,

It was like this, late in 1984 Eggenberger had noticed the Volvo to be a strong opponent in group-A and there for the put in an interest to Volvo late in 1984, to manage a factoryteam. And in the winter of 1984 Volvo Dealer Europé signed Eggenberger and the work begun to forming the European Volvo Dealer Team/Eggenberger Motorsport team. The thing was that Eggenberger was hired by Volvo Dealer Team Europé and not Volvo itself, Volvo only provided with two cars that Eggenberger built for the ETC 1985. And late in 1985 when Volvo and Eggenberger went separate ways its was due to a violation to the contract Eggenberger had signed according to Volvo, the contract said that the Eggenberger team must use the WTT-system (Water-Turbo-Traction), which he didn't cause he found the WTT-system to fail and due to that some races said to be lost. Eggenberger on the other hand wished to renew his contract but Volvo turned him down due to this what Volvo called a violation to the contract.

the Thomas Lindström father-and-son effort continued in the Eggenberger team to. And even so in 1986 when Thomas was in the R.A.S team.

Like mentioned before, there were only 2 cars built (the rumor says 3, however never confirmed) for the Eggenberger team 1985 and one for the Magnum Racing team, so 4 at the most. And correct, the R.A.S team took over and rebuilt the former Eggenberger Volvos from 1985 to race with in 1986, the R.A.S team also took over the former Magnum Racing Volvo (the one that rest at ease today in the Volvo Museum in Göteborg/Gothenburg). But R.A.S also built a 4th Volvo, a RH car, this car was tested but it was to hard on the drivers on so such short time to learn how to drive RH so the car was sold to Australia, to the Australia Volvo Dealer Team (AVDT) in 1986.

The Magnum Racing Volvo team was a team directly under Volvo/Volvo Motorsport and was managed by Mats "Lillen" Magnusson. They also used
the WTT-system according to contract. So the Magnum Racing team was in fact a Factoryteam, the Volvo Magnum Racing used in 1985 was the former and newbuilt LUNA-Sportpromotion Volvo from 1984 (Magnum Racing was the one that built that Volvo in 1984).

Maby I forgot to answer something but I hope that I was to any help!

And things got back on track, but I don't like people who only open their mouths and try to be clever and stupid at the same time.

So the prototype of the 1:18 scale Volvo had some things that was incorrect, so why must someone start to complain about this? It is still
the prototype not the final model that is to be released on the market.
The things that are incorrect will be corrected with the final model.

[VolvoGroupA]

[QUOTE=Splendid Cat;2631545]

Originally Posted by VolvoGroupA

Aah, silly me! You shoulda said that, accepting the "impressive detail" claim, you were aware of the obvious mistakes and, panic yea notte, they would be remedied.

If you're big something up and claim "nothing is forgotten" make sure you can support it. That's all.

My guess is that you're a little, ahem, embarrassed that you didn't see it yourself.

Not to worry, never personal. At least you Swedish live in a beautiful country with fabulous women.

First, the model shown on photo in the report is and still is the prototype, not the final model. Embarrassed? No not at all, like I said at least a couple of times before, ITS A PROTOTYPE, and a very impressive one. Never seen a prototype before of something I guess? Even so its a prototype I still think the details of this model are impressive and I'm still impressed by the model since I've seen the final work of the model to. I have something you don't have in this matter and thats insight in the process of this very model.

The thing you had to make a point to, is corrected on my demand, you know sometimes things go wrong and thats why I helped AUTOart to see
to that all details are correct.

And second, if you only want to complain or just to be clever about it go somewhere else and be it. Cause I don't want to hear about it, and no one else either for that matter. I wouldn't said any thing if you asked why this things with the names and the flags are wrong, but no instead you lay down this which I think was a ridiculous and very unnecessary comment.

You've made your point, End of discussion.

Nothing personal.

[Jesper OH]

Thank you for a very comprehensive answer. Didn't realise that it was Volvo dumping Eggenberger, as I thought it was the opposite. But when did it happen? As I faintly remember it, it happened in early 1986 with few options regarding finding a replacement for Eggenberger. The choice fell on RAS, formerly renowned for their efforts in division 1 with Volkswagen products being prepared and raced for the Belgian VW Club and a bunch of Spaniards. Why didn't Volvo simply promote Magnum Racing to be their team of 1986?

Jesper

[VolvoGroupA]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Thank you for a very comprehensive answer. Didn't realise that it was Volvo dumping Eggenberger, as I thought it was the opposite. But when did it happen? As I faintly remember it, it happened in early 1986 with few options regarding finding a replacement for Eggenberger. The choice fell on RAS, formerly renowned for their efforts in division 1 with Volkswagen products being prepared and raced for the Belgian VW Club and a bunch of Spaniards. Why didn't Volvo simply promote Magnum Racing to be their team of 1986?

Jesper

This happened late in 1985, autumn I think, that Volvo was dropping Eggenberger due to this contract violation. Even so Eggenberger still wanted to manage Volvo in 1986. And R.A.S took over in the winter of 1985. Well the story I told about Volvo dropping Eggenberger is not the "official" story, but it is the true story. I mean why drop Eggenberger after his great work that led to winning the ETC 1985, only due to this stupid thing with the WTT-System. There were many companies that put in an interest to take over the Volvo Factoryteam but only R.A.S presented a satisfying to Volvo a Sponsor- and financially deal.

My idea of why Volvo didn't promote the Magnum Racing team was that they didn't performed as expected in 1985. So they closed down that team also, and both Ulf Granberg and Anders Olofsson joined up with the R.A.S team as we know in 1986. But even the R.A.S team also rejected the WTT-System that Volvo Motorsport had manufactured due to it for failing, and also was in violation of contract with Volvo in the end. And after the disqualifying of some races and due to the violation of the contract to Volvo, Volvo withdrawn from group-A and R.A.S was dropped instantly. And after that Volvo Motorsport slowly stared to close down but were still helping private initiatives, and I think that in 1989 when Swede Anders Lindberg droved the ex. ADVT Volvo, he was the first one who really got the WTT-System to work! I think Volvo Motorsport sold all they had in stock to Leif Wiik in Finland in 1989-90? Not sure, but I know the deal took place.

[KA]

Originally Posted by VolvoGroupA

My idea of why Volvo didn't promote the Magnum Racing team was that they didn't performed as expected in 1985. So they closed down that team also, and both Ulf Granberg and Anders Olofsson joined up with the R.A.S team as we know in 1986. But even the R.A.S team also rejected the WTT-System that Volvo Motorsport had manufactured due to it for failing, and also was in violation of contract with Volvo in the end. And after the disqualifying of some races and due to the violation of the contract to Volvo, Volvo withdrawn from group-A and R.A.S was dropped instantly.

As I remember, the change from Eggenberger to RAS (as Jesper says, at that time stage basically known for running small-class VW Golfs etc) was greeted with a fair amount of surprise by the UK press. I also think I recall there being hints in some of the British press race reports in '86 that the relationship between the factory and RAS wasn't good- presumably the contractual issue over WTT that you mentioned

[KA]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

For 1985 Volvo Motorsport seems to have streamlined their ETCC from four semi factory cars of 1984 to two factory cars and a semi-privateer car in 1985.
The Belgian Guy Trigaux/Michel Delcourt two car effort was axed but Pierre Diedonné employed as new Eggenberger driver partnering Müller (vaguely remembering this to be a reunion!).

I think the original Mark Petch car in Australia in 1985 was one of the ex-Belgian cars?

[KA]

Originally Posted by VolvoGroupA

. But R.A.S also built a 4th Volvo, a RH car, this car was tested but it was to hard on the drivers on so such short time to learn how to drive RH so the car was sold to Australia, to the Australia Volvo Dealer Team (AVDT) in 1986.

.

According to the '86 Bathurst annual, the Australian team used 3 cars in '86- the original Petch car, a new car built locally from a road car shell, and an RHD unraced test car supplied from Sweden- this is presumably the RAS car you mention.

I hadn't realised RAS took over both the Eggenberger and Magnum cars- I guess that accounts for the third car seen at Estoril late-season for Mauro Baldi and Per-Gunnar Andersson?

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by KA

According to the '86 Bathurst annual, the Australian team used 3 cars in '86- the original Petch car, a new car built locally from a road car shell, and an RHD unraced test car supplied from Sweden- this is presumably the RAS car you mention.

I hadn't realised RAS took over both the Eggenberger and Magnum cars- I guess that accounts for the third car seen at Estoril late-season for Mauro Baldi and Per-Gunnar Andersson?

Looking at your avatar (is that the correct word?), KA, you might sport a TWR Rover, but in the background there's an Eggenberger-Volvo! This continuation of cars explains why no "Eggenberger" Volvo seems to exist today. Winning the '85 drivers title would suggest that it should be the most desirable car today, as RAS never seemed to achieve the same level of succes.

One of the two Swedish Stefan Pettersson ran a Volvo 240 Turbo in the Swedish Group A series in 1990 in Eggenberger-colours, but that was about it as for breed, I think.

I can't help but speculating what would have happened with the Ford Sierra RS Cosworth-programme if Ruedi Eggenberger had been retained by Volvo for the '86 season.

Jesper

[VolvoGroupA]

Originally Posted by KA

I think the original Mark Petch car in Australia in 1985 was one of the ex-Belgian cars?

Thats correct!

[Jesper OH]

Interior pictures of the original Petch car shows a lot of red. Michel Delcourt followed with the car and raced with Robbie Francevic in the early 1985 season New Zealand endurance races.

Jesper

[VolvoGroupA]

Originally Posted by KA

According to the '86 Bathurst annual, the Australian team used 3 cars in '86- the original Petch car, a new car built locally from a road car shell, and an RHD unraced test car supplied from Sweden- this is presumably the RAS car you mention.

I hadn't realised RAS took over both the Eggenberger and Magnum cars- I guess that accounts for the third car seen at Estoril late-season for Mauro Baldi and Per-Gunnar Andersson?

Thats correct yes, The AVDT had 3 cars, two RH and one LH. The LH car was the former Mark Petch Volvo from 1985. RH car no1 (#10,#42) was built by R.A.S in 1985 as a test car for trying out the RH for the R.A.S Belgium team but didn't come to use then sold to AVDT, and RH car no2 (#44), as you said was built locally based on a 242GT shell actually.

Yes they took over these two cars, mostly to save time! There wasn't enough time to build two brand new cars in such short time in time the ETC 1986. And if I should be totally correct with the detail about the #26 car that Peggen Andersson and Mauro Baldi drove on Estoril -86, they didn't driver under the R.A.S team but under Volvo Motorsport itself, some kind of cooperation between the two teams so to say. And this was the 1985 Magnum Racing car. Details like the rollcage can tell this.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

I can't help but speculating what would have happened with the Ford Sierra RS Cosworth-programme if Ruedi Eggenberger had been retained by Volvo for the '86 season.

Jesper

Hmmmm, I think quite a few of us have.

It's very likely indeed that ARE or perhaps Ringhausen would have been the all out works Sierra engineers instead.

Similarly what might have happened had TWR taken over the Volvo contract for 1987 onwards after the Rover programme ended?

I'll be willing to bet that some kind of monster 240 replacement would have been homologated for Group A use. TW would have ensured that!

[VolvoGroupA]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Looking at your avatar (is that the correct word?), KA, you might sport a TWR Rover, but in the background there's an Eggenberger-Volvo! This continuation of cars explains why no "Eggenberger" Volvo seems to exist today. Winning the '85 drivers title would suggest that it should be the most desirable car today, as RAS never seemed to achieve the same level of succes.

One of the two Swedish Stefan Pettersson ran a Volvo 240 Turbo in the Swedish Group A series in 1990 in Eggenberger-colours, but that was about it as for breed, I think.

I can't help but speculating what would have happened with the Ford Sierra RS Cosworth-programme if Ruedi Eggenberger had been retained by Volvo for the '86 season.

Jesper

One of the two original R.A.S Volvos still remains today actually. Car #2, this car rest in a museum in Finland, owner is the late Leif Wiik. Car #1 was scrapped by the order of Volvo. And the 3rd car remains in the museum in Gothenburg.

The car of Stefan Pettersson you mention, is in fact the former Per Stureson Volvo DTM winner from 1985. And the car still has the same "look" as in 1990, a friend of mine own the car today.

Volvo with R.A.S would had won the ETC 1986 to, if it wasn't for the three times they got caught cheating and was disqualified, even thou they won these three races at first. They won 5 races fair, it would have been 8 if not for due to the disqualifications, and 8 out of 14 races at 1st place would have given the R.A.S team the ETC title 1986. They was disqualified because of the dashboard (this complaint Eggenberger to put in to FISA since he was the one that built the dashboard and so knew that it was ellegal), and one time for using wrong fuel with higher octane and finally for having 2 and 3 liters more fuel than the rules permitted.

But even Rover was caught cheating! And they was the one that was complaining about Volvo the most...

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by VolvoGroupA

Thats correct yes, The AVDT had 3 cars, two RH and one LH. The LH car was the former Mark Petch Volvo from 1985. RH car no1 (#10,#42) was built by R.A.S in 1985 as a test car for trying out the RH for the R.A.S Belgium team but didn't come to use then sold to AVDT, and RH car no2 (#44), as you said was built locally based on a 242GT shell actually.

Yes they took over these two cars, mostly to save time! There wasn't enough time to build two brand new cars in such short time in time the ETC 1986. And if I should be totally correct with the detail about the #26 car that Peggen Andersson and Mauro Baldi drove on Estoril -86, they didn't driver under the R.A.S team but under Volvo Motorsport itself, some kind of cooperation between the two teams so to say. And this was the 1985 Magnum Racing car. Details like the rollcage can tell this.

Can't find the article, but Bob Constanduras (?) tested the Andersson/Baldi car at Estoril in connection to the late season race itself. As I remember the article the car featured some kind of traction control. Surpriced this was allowed in 1986, but the governing body probably didn't even considered this to be an issue.

Forgot to say it in previous posts, but some teams and manufactures surprises me with how many cars they build and some by how few they build. Volvo seems to fit the second description.

Jesper

[VolvoGroupA]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Can't find the article, but Bob Constanduras (?) tested the Andersson/Baldi car at Estoril in connection to the late season race itself. As I remember the article the car featured some kind of traction control. Surpriced this was allowed in 1986, but the governing body probably didn't even considered this to be an issue.

Jesper

The Andersson/Baldi Volvo was in fact a testcar, it was the only Volvo that was fitted with the ETC-System (Electronic-Traction-Control), Brembo brakes and other Bellhouses for example. It actually was faster then the two other Volvos with Peggen Andersson on behind the wheel, about 0,5 sec, not much faster but faster! I also have this article somewhere but its in Italian.

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by VolvoGroupA

The Andersson/Baldi Volvo was in fact a testcar, it was the only Volvo that was fitted with the ETC-System (Electronic-Traction-Control), Brembo brakes and other Bellhouses for example. It actually was faster then the two other Volvos with Peggen Andersson on behind the wheel, about 0,5 sec, not much faster but faster! I also have this article somewhere but its in Italian.

But internationally renowned Mauro Baldi (F1/Group C) and obvious national Swedish talent Per-Gunnar "Peggen" Andersson didn't ecxactly flattened the Atlantic coast and their opponants. How would the post race report look like for this team?
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...20Estoril.html

Jesper

[VolvoGroupA]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

But internationally renowned Mauro Baldi (F1/Group C) and obvious national Swedish talent Per-Gunnar "Peggen" Andersson didn't ecxactly flattened the Atlantic coast and their opponants. How would the post race report look like for this team?
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...20Estoril.html

Jesper

I think that the results are good, regarding that this Volvo only was raced 3 times the whole season in 1986. Like I said, this Volvo was faster then the two other Volvos. That meant that this was working with the new components that they put on the testcar. But I cant speak for the rest of the opponents, thats a whole other deal. But I guess if Volvo did compete in ETC 1987, they would surely drove a car with similar components and settings.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by VolvoGroupA

That meant that this was working with the new components that they put on the testcar. But I cant speak for the rest of the opponents, thats a whole other deal. But I guess if Volvo did compete in ETC 1987, they would surely drove a car with similar components and settings.

Something TWR must've been aware of, hence the rumours at the time of potential TWR involvement if Volvo continued after 1986?

Interesting stuff this is guys!

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by VolvoGroupA

I think that the results are good, regarding that this Volvo only was raced 3 times the whole season in 1986. Like I said, this Volvo was faster then the two other Volvos. That meant that this was working with the new components that they put on the testcar. But I cant speak for the rest of the opponents, thats a whole other deal. But I guess if Volvo did compete in ETC 1987, they would surely drove a car with similar components and settings.

The obvious driving talents of Baldi and Andersson don't show to be faster than their regulars. The fact that Volvo entered and tested the car in the final 1986 round shows that they had faith in the upcoming 1987 season - and that "Peggen" was a future factory driver as your site says.

Jesper

[VolvoGroupA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Something TWR must've been aware of, hence the rumours at the time of potential TWR involvement if Volvo continued after 1986?

Interesting stuff this is guys!

I think that in 1987 when there were two Volvos on Wellington WTCC, TWR had a finger in play. Even so the car was U-bix/SRS sponsored. The two cars involved was the former Per Stureson 1985 DTM Volvo and the other I think was Peggen Anderssons former DTM Volvo. However I had the chance to study the former Stureson Volvo at close range, and the car have been widen in the back at the back fenders over the wheels, the wishbone had been placed higher then usual, the doors and front fenders was in 0,6mm plate instead of the original 0,9mm plate.

(mind this car have been standing still for the past 12 years in barn, before my friend found the car and bought it! Condition is good but the brake disc are full of rust, and its dirty to as one can see)

[VolvoGroupA]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

The obvious driving talents of Baldi and Andersson don't show to be faster than their regulars. The fact that Volvo entered and tested the car in the final 1986 round shows that they had faith in the upcoming 1987 season - and that "Peggen" was a future factory driver as your site says.

Jesper

Its to sad that a Volvo Factoryteam never got to see the days of 1987 ETC season and so on! Peggen Andersson would been a fine Volvo driver, since he had drove Volvo since 1983, raced in his own team/car since 1984-1988. And did well in Asia with Zepspeed. And after speaking with Peggen myself he explained that he was 0,5 seconds faster on qualifying tires, however it might have been different on real racing tires!