[Rumours] Webber's engine turned down, Vettel's turned up

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by grumpyf14d

After reading all the comments from the upper management of Red Bull I think it fair to say that they believe that Webber should have yielded to Vettel because Vettel was ahead at that moment. I also think that Vettel believed that his teamate was going to give him the room and the line otherwise he would not have continued to move right coming into the corner. If you subscibe to the "equality" camp than you have to assume team orders are to give each other racing room when dueling.

Now answer me this:

If Vettel gets by cleanly and later Webber gets a run on him in similar style, does Vettel yield the same as expected by Webber?

With Webber clearly ahead in the points how will Red Bull approach the rest of the year as there will be plenty of opportunity to direct more points to one driver over another?

Might we see Webber wearing Yellow this time next year?

If the team wants to achieve the best result, then YES, Vettel should yield to Webber, in that scenario.

i.e. if Webber did a Vettel, I would be taking Webber's side as clearly Vettel would be defending too aggressively, knowing full well that the passing opportunity was on.

There is no need to take out your teammate unless there are no team orders and it's every man for himself... which doesn't happen.

[johnh875]

That is a key point - they were level on points going into the race, & both wanted to be ahead going into the back half of the season & thereby warrant the favourable treatment.

[Mr V]

If Vettel is the favoured son, how come Mark had the new rear wing flown out this weekend?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Mr V

If Vettel is the favoured son, how come Mark had the new rear wing flown out this weekend?

Because it was already on Mr Vettel's car...

[Jacal]

Slightly off topic, and I'm only referring to the webber vettel battle.

Vettel 2 (Japan 2007, Turkey 2010)
Webber 0 (payback to come?)

[paddy]

I've just watched the video several times and from in car with Webber he clearly makes a small move with the steering wheel towards Vettel just before they touch. Of course it may be that there has also been contact prior to that that is not visible from the available view. To be honest I do blame them both only because all contact should have been avoided, but there is clearly an undertone of distrust and perhaps dislike between them and maybe this was going to happen eventually.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by paddy

but there is clearly an undertone of distrust and perhaps dislike between them and maybe this was going to happen eventually.

If they are simply two competitive drivers racing each other then any dislike or distrust wouldn't come into the equation - there would (or should) just be a healthy level of respect.

However, add a team structure and the possibility of team orders and distrust can be added to the equation..

When the BBC asked Whitmarsh who he blamed he simply said that he wouldn't have been cuddling Seb on the pit wall (or words to that effect) so he clearly saw that the driver attempting the pass was the one risking the one-two finish. I have to agree with that view and the fact that Horner was obviously angry with the drivers 'not giving each other enough room to race' was clearly a dig only at Webber - as Seb did not have any track to give room to Webber but Webber had track that he could give to Seb.

I think the body language from Horner says it all - what he had planned didn't come off and he was angry about it. I'm not sure who should learn most from this incident - the drivers or the team management........

Had Vettel slowed and continued on his very tight line into the corner Webber was poised for an immediate re-take as Vettel would have to run wide on the exit. IMHO both cars could have made the corner without incident had Seb not tried to force Webber over to the right at the last moment - and it wasn't a squeeze he did it was a very rapid movement, which I doubt Webber could have reacted to fast enough to avoid the collision which is why it happened.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by deeks6

Webber has been clearly on top of GB the last few rounds and the only explanation for trying to put Vettel in front of the "journeyman" is that Knowesly is running the team.

I think all have the utmost respect for what Webber is doing.

His fans however...

If Webber continues in this vein life, will be very difficult for Vettel. He has had some bad luck this year but has let the frustration get to him. Not impressive at all.

[paddy]

"If they are simply two competitive drivers racing each other then any dislike or distrust wouldn't come into the equation - there would (or should) just be a healthy level of respect.

However, add a team structure and the possibility of team orders and distrust can be added to the equation.."



I agree with that Phoenix. It was interesting to see the body language between Button and Hamilton at the end as they do seem to have a good relationship at the moment. Of course as the season goes on it's likely to come under more pressure especially if they are both in with a shout of the title. I think things at Red Bull could be very fraught from now on unless heads are banged together and issues sorted. Particularly because McLaren seem to be getting on the pace and could be serious title contenders.

[OZ_HCR32]

Well Horner gets a good nights sleep and takes another dig at Webber

"It is right to let the drivers race - we saw McLaren letting their drivers race - but when drivers are in the same team it is important they give each other a bit more respect and concede if one has got a run on the other."

So they are blaming Webber

Thats it. I am off RBR. I liked their fresh faces and approach to racing. I am off to support Sauber and my boy Kobayashi With any luck RBR have a ****ful back half of the year and McLaren blow them away

[Knowlesy]

Politics. Meh!

[Another Bob]

I just went and had a look at the Red Bull Racing website.

You should see the hammering the comments section is giving Vettel, Horner and Red Bull over the bias against Webber!!!!

Talk about a marketing tool coming back to bite you on the ass.

[Mr V]

Mostly from Australians i'd imagine

[pannenmann]

Originally Posted by SRabbit

Austrian owner with a German driver who is costing him at least 3 times what the old has-been does...but is losing...

Vettel's old car was broken? No it wasn't - they just wanted him in a new one and that was a convenient excuse as to why the Golden Child was getting one and the old boy wasn't.

Vettel went out last in quali when Webber was supposed to, prompting Webber to say at the press conference he'd be asking why that happened.

Vettel got to pit first in the race from third place.

Vettel gets to keep engine revs whilst Mark is told to turn it down. The whole 'fuel-consumption' argument may have retained some element of believability....if Horner didn't lie about it first.

It's as blatant a case of favouritism as you'd ever want - and Webbo is prevailing...loving it!

Agreed except for the first part. Germans and Austrians usually don't get along that well in general. So playing the Nation / ethnic card is too simple. Especially as no sane and successful business man would rely his decisions on such matters I hope.

But I do think the ability to communicate in each other's mother tongue will give you an advantage. It has psychological issues, you probably feel more comfortable around him and you can communicate in more efficient and also informal, emotion driven way. Sipping a beer and just chit chatting along is more easy in the mother tongue and things like this creates bonds, on a subconcious level. Why do you think Michael learned Italian when he joined Ferrari?

But the reason might also be another one: How long will Webber stay at RBR and how long will Vettel stay? How big is the market in Germany for F1 and compared to Australia? From a racing point of view, Webber should be treated equally or even given advantage. But we don't really know what the plans of RBR are when it comes to business and mid/long term strategy.

[Wims]

I agree that its not about Vettel speaking the same language as the team owner, its about selling energydrinks in the most populous country in Europe.

[RF_Racer]

Australia should boycott and ban imports of Redbull lol

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by RF_Racer

Australia should boycott and ban imports of Redbull lol

And start driving more Renault's or smoking more Marlboro's.

[neiltb]

if RBR really wants to favour SV, expect a mid 90's Beneton structure at the next race. Teams can make you as slow as they want.

[Marbot]

Well, they can, but Benetton weren't terribly interested in winning the constructors championship back then. Not sure if that holds true for a soft drinks company as much as it did for a clothing manufacturer ?

[jab]

Originally Posted by neiltb

if RBR really wants to favour SV, expect a mid 90's Beneton structure at the next race. Teams can make you as slow as they want.

And they can certainly give you the boot if you're quick enough to match the star German, as Brundle found out

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Mostly from Australians i'd imagine

Not necessarily, surely? I'm a Brit and I have no doubts at all where I stand on this one - as I suspect, do the majority of those who viewed the incident.

[foreversideways]

Oh they are getting slammed on the comments sections on the Red Bull Racing site, even talk of a Red Bull boycott. I think i will as it will be no problem for me as i wouldn't thank you for the stuff.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by foreversideways

Oh they are getting slammed on the comments sections on the Red Bull Racing site, even talk of a Red Bull boycott. I think i will as it will be no problem for me as i wouldn't thank you for the stuff.

Fo' sho! Tastes like the ceiling in a dentist's waiting room. Cha'mone.

[Venom XR]

If Red Bull's marketing department had any sense, they'd support Mark this season. What better way to hammer home the concept of Red Bull 'giving you wings' than to have a 'old guy' win his first WDC in their cars?

Vettel is young, and has years ahead of him to win multiple WDCs.

[Super Hans]

Red Bull Gives You Wins!