[Official] Mexican Grand Prix 2024

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by AndrewCherry

Trying to be fair to Perez at least on the fastest lap thing - he was carrying car damage and was up against Leclerc trying to do the same on the same lap in a car which was already quicker all weekend (not that I think Perez would have done beaten him normally, but he stood less than no chance in those circumstances, hardly see why they bothered trying). The rest of his race/weekend though was pretty dire, and he wasn't just a shade over the line at the start, it was a good metre. That's just weird.

I almost mentioned Perez's car damage. It clearly impacted his pace. Why put him in such a position to embarrass himself at his home GP.

Richard

[steve_r]

One day perhaps someone senior at RBR will call out the dreadful on track antics by their golden child. But not today. So the man-child will not learn.

Instead Horner comes out with some irrelevant drivel about Norris' speed going into the corner. And his race engineer dismisses everything as due to whinging of the opposition.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Richard C

I almost mentioned Perez's car damage. It clearly impacted his pace. Why put him in such a position to embarrass himself at his home GP.

Richard

Because there was no reason not to.

If he managed it, they took the point off Ferrari. If he didn't, he lost no points.

There was no down side.

[GingerPixel]

A pretty absurd weekend for RB. Not really what you'd expect from a team participating in top level sport. I think it's interesting that whenever Max starts running people off the road his response is, "oh well the car isn't fast enough". These two things are not related mate.

[Kingair]

Lando just needs to put Mad Max into the wall!

[P38 in workshop]

I enjoyed the Mercedes battle,they should be congratulated for keeping it close and clean.Ferrari may well be wondering if they made a wise move earlier in the year-I know I do.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Kingair

Lando just needs to put Mad Max into the wall!

- 2024 and that is the type of racing that you would like to see encouraged?

It staggers me that someone would actually encourage or condone a deliberate act that could cause serious harm (or worse).

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

they should be congratulated for keeping it close and clean.

[ChrisA]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

- 2024 and that is the type of racing that you would like to see encouraged?

It staggers me that someone would actually encourage or condone a deliberate act that could cause serious harm (or worse).

Yes, agree with CRM, we don't need touring car tactics in F1.

[AndrewCherry]

I'd rather not have touring car tactics in touring cars either!


Back to the F1, I do also wonder if Ferrari will regret letting Sainz go - peak Hamilton is undeniably worth having for any team, but I'm not sure this is peak Hamilton any longer - everyone loses a tenth at some point... That said, the racing between him and Russell yesterday was hard but fair from what I saw, so that's something. Next year will certainly be interesting, at the very least - I just hope Sainz doesn't become a casualty of the perennial Ferrari obsession with last years big thing...

[S griffin]

Let’s leave discussions about tin tops for somewhere else.

Sainz has done quite a decent job this year. You wonder if replacing him with Hamilton is the right move. They might have been better off keeping Sainz. Although Leclerc still has the upper hand overall. We’ll see how Ferrari manage next year

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Kingair

Lando just needs to put Mad Max into the wall!

Sorry - no, just no. Wishing damage and possible injury on a driver is just not on.

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

- 2024 and that is the type of racing that you would like to see encouraged?

It staggers me that someone would actually encourage or condone a deliberate act that could cause serious harm (or worse).

Yeah - on the same page as you - called out someone for it after Austin. I get that people have passion but this wishing that a driver gets put into the wall, with all the ramifications possible from that, is simply over the line.

[Taxi645]

Personally I was not that impressed by the first penalty. Norris got ahead after the turn. So they could've let it go. The second one at turn 8 could have been a stop and go penalty or even stop and go plus 10s stand still.


Effectively it's almost the same, but that way the stewarding would've been more precise and in my view even clearer.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

Norris got ahead after the turn. So they could've let it go.

It's judged on culpability, not consequence.

[PhilipR]

This did not feel like red mist moment from Verstappen to me. His red mist was evident in Hungary where he was all over the place on the radio

Here he was always calm (heck Checo was more upset over the false start penalty), which feels like Ver is doing this intentionaly to Norris to hamper him and make him lose time/positions even. This feels deliberate and dangerous. Now obviously you cannot prove intent in such cases and Ver is still good enough to just keep it on the edge of legality. But look he did no such defense against other drivers and is a bit similar to what he was doing to Hamilton in 2021 - pushing him wide, brake testing on straight in Jedda etc
Ver knows tht a crash will hirt Noris and mclaren more than him.

The intersting thing is they are good friends, wonder if they talk about this when hanging out or completely ignore it hah

[Mike Harte]

Maybe the answer would be to black flag Verstappen, and then let him explain himself to the Stewards whilst the race continued. That would stop him, I would have thought. It might also put a bit of backbone in to Red Bull Racing, rather than pandering to him all the time.

It was the way that they did it in the 60s at National level, albeit not at F1 level as those drivers knew what they could and couldn't do on track.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by PhilipR

The intersting thing is they are good friends, wonder if they talk about this when hanging out or completely ignore it hah

With behaviour like this, you have to wonder how much longer the friendship can be expected to survive.

[PhilipR]

Lol at Horner with the telemtry data
But he never has that when Ver is at fault or goes off track haha

In a way I like that about him, protecting his driver and his team. And disciplinary action should not be team's remit but the regulators unless the penalties stack up aand are impacting the team negatively. So far none of this has had a major negative impact on the team. Per has lost team more points than the few verstappen penalties

Now do I agree with the above, not at all but I can see why Red Bull are not stepping up at least pubicly

[TrapezeArtist]

I think his post-race interview (shown on C4) explains Verstappen's position:
It is his right to be in front
The car isn't good enough
Therefore he has to barge his way through

Thankfully the stewards did the right thing on this occasion. But after the number of times he's got away with things in the past, I doubt he will modify his behaviour.

The Mercedes battle showed how team-mates (or any two drivers) can race hard yet respectfully. A video of their ten laps in close company should be compulsory viewing for Alpine and Haas drivers (and a few others too).

Although Yuki was driving into an ever-decreasing gap that was bound to trip him up, my takeaway from the incident was the speed he passed Albon as seen from Albon's camera. Did he out-brake himself as well as getting clobbered by Albon being forced left?

Leclerc's little off in the last corner was a brown-trouser moment of epic proportions. He did incredibly well to save that.

Whatever happened to Oscar Piastri this weekend. Totally out-of-character. His Q1 exit was dismal and much of his race looked uninspiring, although he did drag it up to 8th at the end to salvage a few points for McLaren. He'll need to do better in the remaining races if McLaren are to win the Constructor's.

The battle between Perez and Lawson was interesting. That definitely looked like the fight for the second Red Bull seat in 2025. However looking at the final results, it looks like a marginal win for Checo (in the better car). Did something happen to Lawson that I missed?

Finally congratulations to Carlos Sainz and Ferrari.

[AndrewCherry]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

The battle between Perez and Lawson was interesting. That definitely looked like the fight for the second Red Bull seat in 2025. However looking at the final results, it looks like a marginal win for Checo (in the better car). Did something happen to Lawson that I missed?

Yup, Lawson's front wing was broken in a subsequent battle with Colapinto when he'd passed Perez. Had to pit, and therefore finished further back, but on the evidence of the broad racing between the two of them, and especially given Perez has the theoretically superior car (albeit with damage) I'd say that Lawson took it comfortably.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by AndrewCherry

Yup, Lawson's front wing was broken in a subsequent battle with Colapinto when he'd passed Perez. Had to pit, and therefore finished further back, but on the evidence of the broad racing between the two of them, and especially given Perez has the theoretically superior car (albeit with damage) I'd say that Lawson took it comfortably.

I completely agree. If this race doesn't persuade the powers-that-be at RBR that Checo's time is up, then other than deliberately taking his team mate out on Lap 1 of the next GP* I don't know what would.

(*Of course this almost certainly won't happen as Checo is unlikely to be close enough to Max to do it.....).

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by PhilipR

Lol at Horner with the telemtry data
But he never has that when Ver is at fault or goes off track haha

Horner has called it telemetry data, but this isn't strictly true. What he has is an estimated GPS trace based on the interpolation between the mini sectors.

Horners has basically made up data to prove Lando wasn't going to stay on the track.

[flatlandsman]

A big issue here is belief. The guy has been raised to believe he is the best from a ludicrously pushy father, he believes it too. So from the very start of his F1 career the stuff he does now has been there.

In many ways it is no different to the way Senna was with Alain or Schumacher was with pretty much anyone.

Is it right? In my mind no, it pushes the limits of initially sport and fairness and also at times safety. As it did with those two other names.

He races sims religiously where he is also very quick, this is part of his life and will be after he retires (which I believe will only be a few years away) so like a footballer he has been raised to believes he is so special, so much better that the ONLY reason he is not winning is the car, never, NEVER him.

This type of almost naive self belief is dangerous.

DO you remember the Senna movie. The home win in 91 with the broken gearbox. Do you remember the in car radio. Screaming, shouting, crying. My thought when I heard that was Alain, THIS is what he was up against, a man so utterly obsessed that he could let himself get this uptight. I do not think Max is that way, but his self belief is dangerous, he has shown it every time any driver gets close and the saddest part is I do not think he can control it, it is instinctual.

How do you stem it out when to him it as instinctual as blinking, breathing or walking. He knows no different.

[AndreasDavour]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

A big issue here is belief. The guy has been raised to believe he is the best from a ludicrously pushy father, he believes it too. So from the very start of his F1 career the stuff he does now has been there.

In many ways it is no different to the way Senna was with Alain or Schumacher was with pretty much anyone.

Is it right? In my mind no, it pushes the limits of initially sport and fairness and also at times safety. As it did with those two other names.

He races sims religiously where he is also very quick, this is part of his life and will be after he retires (which I believe will only be a few years away) so like a footballer he has been raised to believes he is so special, so much better that the ONLY reason he is not winning is the car, never, NEVER him.

This type of almost naive self belief is dangerous.

DO you remember the Senna movie. The home win in 91 with the broken gearbox. Do you remember the in car radio. Screaming, shouting, crying. My thought when I heard that was Alain, THIS is what he was up against, a man so utterly obsessed that he could let himself get this uptight. I do not think Max is that way, but his self belief is dangerous, he has shown it every time any driver gets close and the saddest part is I do not think he can control it, it is instinctual.

How do you stem it out when to him it as instinctual as blinking, breathing or walking. He knows no different.

Extremely well put. Thanks.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

How do you stem it out when to him it as instinctual as blinking, breathing or walking. He knows no different.

Like a child, you punish him every time he does it. He will either improve his standards and adapt like a grown up, or he will lose.

[flatlandsman]

And there you have it, he has never been told off for driving like that, which is why it continues. The people that could do it and should have done it are long gone.