Grp2 Zakspeed Escort

[4dnut]

Also could someone help me with a copy of the 73/74 group 2 rules.

Paul

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by 4dnut

Also Mike did you get HTP papers for your escort?

Hi Paul, have HTP. Gp2 regs are archived on FIA website- if you can't find them will send you a link when back from Algarve meeting.

[Hunter1300]

Mike you might be the man for this question but its open to everyone, true or false.... The zakspeed cars back in 'the day' ran a different wheel base????

I was talking cars to a friend an he slipped the comment that they were different can that actually be true? If so wot WB were they an why change? An how did they do it?
My only guess is the grp 5 cars were heavily modified that he mean them?

(Sorry if grammar is poor was a late night with a bottle of mature red. lol)

[Mike Bell]

None of the pics I have of Zakspeed Mk1 and Mk2 (Gp2) cars suggest anything abnormal in the wheelbase. Not sure without looking if App J allowed it, and of course the measurement was stated on the homologation form. The Gp5 cars could have been different as they were developed into the spaceframe cars- if regs allowed, of course.

From stories I've heard am sure if the likes of Broadspeed and Zakspeed wanted to alter a cars dimensions they would find a way to do it......

[Hunter1300]

ZAKspeed car
wheelbase : 2430mm
length : 3935mm
Height : 1320mm
width : 1720mm
Weight 845kg???? seems heavy.

I also have information saying the cars were as light as 700kg

1975-1980 Standard Sport/RS Mexico
Length: 3975mm
Wheelbase: 2408mm
Width: 1594mm
Height: 1403mm
Weight: 903kgs

[Mike Bell]

That is a 1976 onwards Gp2 car and minimum weight limit for 2litre class was 845kg, hence the stated weight..... It may have weighed less but doubt 700kg.

The increase in wheelbase is less than 1%. From memory there is a tolerance allowance of plus or minus 1%, so if I am not wrong on that the stated dimension was within the regs.

[Hunter1300]

1%, just find it interesting they were playing around with the wheelbase....

cant seem to find the document that says it was down to 700kg but found one that says 780..... what did they get them down to?

[Mike Bell]

Maybe not intentionally. If they increased caster on front without moving top mount location it would increase wheelbase, for instance.

Perhaps 780kg would be possible but not having been involved with Escorts at that time purely speculating. Gp2 was hardly a lightweight formula. Certainly if they were running a car that much under the weight limit they ran risk of disqualification. The 1977 Gp5 cars however, did get below 750kg, while the 1979 Gp2 Escort was quoted as 865kg......

[morninggents]

I ran a Mk 1 Escort in the 1974-1977 period. It was to club spec, not FIA Group 2 but was all steel shell except for fibreglass bonnet boot and doors and had perspex side and rear windows. Being a bit OCD I have kept a lot of records from that period including weights when we put it on a weighbridge. It ran first of all with a 1800cc BDA on carbs and weighed 760 kg with no fuel. Later it had a 1950cc FVC on fuel injection and weighed 790 kg with no fuel. It had lightweight shocks and works style front and rear suspension with a 5 speed Jack Knight box. Although it could have been lightened a bit more whilst still retaining it's 'steel' body there is no way it could have been got down to 700 kg.
The car is actually shown in a different thread on this forum.

[Mike Bell]

Thanks, Peter, was hoping you would be along!

The 1976 Gp2 regs didn't allow mush scope for weight saving. All steel panels, retention of original windows, winder mechanisms etc. Inside, a bit of help as seats & carpets could be removed, as well as heater. As dry sumps were banned that year (although the rule was recinded a year later) and production 4 speed gearbox had to be used, a bit of weight saved there! The maximum wheel widths were also class based, Escort 11.5" max, as opposed to the wider ones used up to then.

[Hunter1300]

Originally Posted by morninggents

I ran a Mk 1 Escort in the 1974-1977 period. It was to club spec, not FIA Group 2 but was all steel shell except for fibreglass bonnet boot and doors and had perspex side and rear windows. Being a bit OCD I have kept a lot of records from that period including weights when we put it on a weighbridge. It ran first of all with a 1800cc BDA on carbs and weighed 760 kg with no fuel. Later it had a 1950cc FVC on fuel injection and weighed 790 kg with no fuel. It had lightweight shocks and works style front and rear suspension with a 5 speed Jack Knight box. Although it could have been lightened a bit more whilst still retaining it's 'steel' body there is no way it could have been got down to 700 kg.
The car is actually shown in a different thread on this forum.

I'd be interested to know more about these set up sheets an more info onthe car.

[morninggents]

Being old tech I don't know how to post a link but if you go to the Motorsport History section and go 7 pages in to a thread headed 'Need some help with Escort Mk 1 1974 (Group 2)' then go to post number 171 on page 12. The link will take you to the Speedhunters website and you will need to go to the May 2011 edition in the archive section. Third page in has a few photos of the car now in Castrol colours.. The link used to show the complete article in the Classic Ford magazine. PM me if you need any further info.

[Peter Mallett]

This post.

http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=171

By the way, page numbers differ depending on the poster's set up so best just to refer to the post number.

[morninggents]

Thanks Peter. Must get myself on an old git's computer course!

[Peter Mallett]

I can recommend the one I took.

[Hunter1300]

Hello,
Has anyone got a copy of the homologation papers for gp2 escort PLEASE!!!!

cheers

Jonathan

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by Hunter1300

Hello,
Has anyone got a copy of the homologation papers for gp2 escort PLEASE!!!!
cheers
Jonathan

I think Mike Bell may have some. He might see this between pan-european race meetings. Jealous? Me? Never!

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Hunter1300

Hello,
Has anyone got a copy of the homologation papers for gp2 escort PLEASE!!!!

cheers

Jonathan

Jonathan, the homologation papers refer to the make and model, not any specific group of FIA regulations. So the Escort RS1600 papers (which include RS1800) contain standard build info and all tuning / modified parts that Ford added- for all groups of competition. They have to be read in conjunction with FIA appendix J & K of the period car conforms to or is required to conform to, to determine what was appropriate! The homologation number is 1605 and yes, I have a copy, all 79 pages........ BTW In interest of correctness, you can actually buy the papers from MSA by phoning and quoting the number. If you haven't already got App J & K they are available for download on FIA archive website. Suggest you send me a PM.


Peter, why would anyone racing a Gp2 Escort now need to know what was homologated?

[Hunter1300]

Thankyou

PM

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Jonathan, the homologation papers refer to the make and model, not any specific group of FIA regulations. So the Escort RS1600 papers (which include RS1800) contain standard build info and all tuning / modified parts that Ford added- for all groups of competition. They have to be read in conjunction with FIA appendix J & K of the period car conforms to or is required to conform to, to determine what was appropriate! The homologation number is 1605 and yes, I have a copy, all 79 pages........ BTW In interest of correctness, you can actually buy the papers from MSA by phoning and quoting the number. If you haven't already got App J & K they are available for download on FIA archive website. Suggest you send me a PM.


Peter, why would anyone racing a Gp2 Escort now need to know what was homologated?

[Avo]

Hello
I'm building a bdg mk2 gr2 car, and I'm trying to find out brand and modell name of the front caliper brakes that are homlogated in 1605. Please see pictures of the caliper. Does anybody of you know?

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Avo

Hello
I'm building a bdg mk2 gr2 car, and I'm trying to find out brand and modell name of the front caliper brakes that are homlogated in 1605. Please see pictures of the caliper. Does anybody of you know?

The correct period Gp2 front calipers were the AP model CP2361 [ forest ] , or the CP 2270 [ Monte ] types .

Although the picture does not look like them , so might be from a Gp 5/6 car or anything .

[Alex E]

Those callipers are ATE, used from late sixties until late `70`s. They were used on a lot of larger (Capri..CSL.....etc..) Gp 2 and GP 5 touring cars.
Alex

[Simon Hadfield]

Actually those are Girling composite calipers, our - very original Zakspeed Mk 2 - has exactly the same calipers and the caliper was also used on cars as disparate as the Lola T70 and the Brabham BT 49. Parts and even complete calipers are available today.

[GORDON STREETER]

Are they like these , I have an old damaged one in the workshop.

[Simon Hadfield]

No, those are Girling AR calipers, they were pretty much the "standard" Motorsport caliper for many years before bigger brakes were needed.