Round 1: Firestone Grand Prix of St. Petersburg, FL. March 8 - 10.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

This paragraph says: ''An extensive review of data from the race on the streets of St. Petersburg revealed that Team Penske manipulated the overtake system so that the No. 2, 3 and 12 cars had the ability to use Push to Pass on starts and restarts. According to the IndyCar rulebook, use of overtake is not available during championship races until the car reaches the alternate start-finish line. It was determined that the No. 2 and the No. 3 gained a competitive advantage by using Push to Pass on restarts while the No. 12 did not.''


Pretty damning .

Originally Posted by E.B

Cindric in the Penske statement (in the racer article linked) admitted that yes they used it and he also acknowledged that it calls into question whether the unfair advantage was known to exist in advance.

Sprung bad it seems.

Thanks, I missed that part of the article.

[v8supes]

Its really outrageous imo that Penske didnt correct the issue themselves for Long Beach. They knew they were able to use the push to pass at all times going into the warmup, for sure Newgarden and Mclaughlin knew otherwise why would they have used it on the restarts in St Pete?
So knowing they had the ability to use the system they were still planning to use it until they were finally caught, which happened in Long Beach warmup. Its deliberate cheating and not just a mistake.

Finally, why wasnt the issue of the hybrid software picked up in pre event tech by the officials? Most if not all championships that use a spec ECU mandate that you must run a specific version of software which is checked during the pre & post event scrutineering. Presumably the hybrid software would have a different version number showing in the ECU than the standard software? Just like when you have 2 versions of software on a computer. You might have version 1.01 and then when its updated it becomes version 1.02 for example

The penalty while damaging doesn't really seem all that harsh given the level of deception that presumably took place.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by v8supes

The penalty while damaging doesn't really seem all that harsh given the level of deception that presumably took place.

I also thought it was pretty light penalty considering how deliberately it had all been done.

[Adam43]

Ooops!

Minor minor point. They have removed them from the results and Pato O’Ward gets the full points for the win. However the laps led looks a little odd. They don’t redo those so the winner doesn’t get any points for leading a lap! Also I don’t think anyone now gets the most laps led. Small nuance that is unlikely to be important. But you never know.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Amended Result

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Ooops!

Minor minor point. They have removed them from the results and Pato O’Ward gets the full points for the win. However the laps led looks a little odd. They don’t redo those so the winner doesn’t get any points for leading a lap! Also I don’t think anyone now gets the most laps led. Small nuance that is unlikely to be important. But you never know.

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Amended Result

That is funny, on the revised results, now only 2 people led laps for a total of 8 laps, and neither of them was the race winner!

[joeb]

And a thorough accounting of things from Marshall

https://racer.com/2024/04/24/how-tea...ond-the-limit/

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by joeb

And a thorough accounting of things from Marshall

https://racer.com/2024/04/24/how-tea...ond-the-limit/

Excellent article and thanks for posting.


Indeed, a dark day for IndyCar.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Excellent article and thanks for posting.


Indeed, a dark day for IndyCar.

And while they are at it, I think Indycar needs to double check the size of the fuel tank on Dixon's car!

[peebee2]

Shocking to hear the Captain's cars illegal in his own series.

[bjohnsonsmith]

I'm wondering how far the ramifications of this could go, in terms of sponsors and the integrity of the Penske organisation itself?

[E.B]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I'm wondering how far the ramifications of this could go, in terms of sponsors and the integrity of the Penske organisation itself?

The Captain is embarrassed.....
"Very disappointing," Penske said in a text message to The Associated Press. "I am embarrassed."

Others have added their 2 cents worth.

"I've emulated Roger Penske for many years on and off the track, so today's news is quite a disappointment for me," rival team owner Chip Ganassi told the AP. "This is a blemish on his team, their organisation, and the series. Very disappointing as a fellow owner and competitor in the series."

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/04/25/d...ndycar-opener/

[joeb]

More details from the Penske organization:

https://racer.com/2024/04/26/the-how...-and-ruzewski/

[bjohnsonsmith]

I thought this paragraph in that Racer.com article very interesting and it raises a couple of questions.

''Some drivers make a habit of pressing the P2P button on starts and restarts in the off chance the system has been mistakenly activated by the series. Newgarden, in particular, is well-known within the driver group for frequently hitting the inactive P2P button on starts and restarts and did so prior to joining Team Penske.''

Does this mean P2P has sometimes been activated on starts and restarts in previous races? Otherwise why would a driver make a habit of pressing the P2P button, if P2P is supposed to be deactivated on starts and restarts?

[Adam43]

I did something illegal, but I’m not to blame because you didn't stop me!

(Assumes the rule is written not at restarts rather than only when activated by race control)

Edit: If race control messed up you might be able to argue it I guess. I wouldn’t want to try and it’s not in the spirit.

https://epaddock.indycar.com/docs/de...rsn=6ac7bc42_1

[GTRMagic]

The team should stop talking about it
The drivers should equally STFU

The more they talk, the more duplicitous they sound.

Mr Newgarden seems to want someone to feel sorry for him it seems..

What happened to the champ car days when all the teams ran T cars… and they could test the bejesus out of them and not put mileage or fiddle with known settings on the primary car. .Shrug:

When is Penske selling IndyCar to NASCAR?

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

why would a driver make a habit of pressing the P2P button, if P2P is supposed to be deactivated on starts and restarts?

To feel like they can go faster. I would do it.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

To feel like they can go faster. I would do it.

I would too, if I knew there was a glitch and it could be activated.

[GTRMagic]

Andretti Not Pleased

The conversation is one to be having though..
Firing an employee for helping to present an ineligible car should be the minimum outcome here. Unless of course it was sanctioned from the higher ups…

If a Penske pilot wins the series.. it may well put an asterisk on their season..

[broadrun96]

I've come to one conclusion often with things like this, the internet proves just how many cheaters are out there and their outrage outs them quickly and easily.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

If a Penske pilot wins the series.. it may well put an asterisk on their season..

I actually think that it raises the bigger question of technical checking by Indycar, given that this breach of rules was discovered more or less by accident.

Are the cars checked well enough to be SURE that others aren't cheating in other ways? Maybe there should be a asterisk next to many more results?

[Adam43]

It’s not that different to many other series. Possibly all. They have to make practical choices of this kind of thing. It is control software you’d think there was low chance people could and, here is the key, would cheat.

The other aspect to how they the mange this is the way they cover the inevitable holes from feasibly not being able to check everything. They have draconian penalties. Here we see a disqualification from a win even though the offense probably didn’t make a difference to the result.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Adam43

It’s not that different to many other series. Possibly all. They have to make practical choices of this kind of thing. It is control software you’d think there was low chance people could and, here is the key, would cheat.

The other aspect to how they the mange this is the way they cover the inevitable holes from feasibly not being able to check everything. They have draconian penalties. Here we see a disqualification from a win even though the offense probably didn’t make a difference to the result.

Fair points - I just found it extraordinary that the P2P infringement wasn't picked up earlier with all the data logging that the series does.

[Adam43]

I agree. I guess they just never thought to look! Or that they needed to look.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I agree. I guess they just never thought to look! Or that they needed to look.

Yeah - or they never thought it could be manipulated, or they thought the penalties were heavy enough to stop it happening. Wouldn't be surprised if they step up some of the tech inspection processes from now on.

In many ways the series is very lucky (as is Penske when you think about it) that it was picked up after only one race. Imagine if it wasn't discovered until much deeper in the season - that could have been a v-e-r-y big deal.