The 'Great' WEC Grid Girl Debate

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Ginaro Zukovsky

So the WEC doesn't have the freedom to remove the grid girls?

They obviously have. They just did. What they did was to impose their right over the rights of the girls. If you agree that the rights of an institution is more important (and many do) than individual rights, then this measure is acceptable to you. If one thinks individual rights are more important, then this measure is an abhorrence. Food for thought?

[Gingers4Justice]

This is a serious point here - nobody has banned anything, have they? The WEC have merely stopped providing grid girls, and there's nothing stopping teams bringing on their own half naked ladies is there?

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by BudLightJaguar

Swimming has lost part of it since the LZR suits.

That's true!

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

This is a serious point here - nobody has banned anything, have they? The WEC have merely stopped providing grid girls, and there's nothing stopping teams bringing on their own half naked ladies is there?

Good point. I don't know the answer, but I suspect that the WEC would not allow a team to bring their own grid girls.

[Pontlieue]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

They obviously have. They just did. What they did was to impose their right over the rights of the girls. If you agree that the rights of an institution is more important (and many do) than individual rights, then this measure is acceptable to you. If one thinks individual rights are more important, then this measure is an abhorrence. Food for thought?

It's not like they have banned girls from attending WEC without wearing a specified amount of clothes. They have just stopped employing grid girls.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

So, no Amercing football, female gymnastics, swimming, basketball for them either?

I won't reply to your earlier response because I don't want this to look too argument-y, but in a nutshell - yes, I don't like half of these sports. American Football I find to be the most pathetic sport on the planet - a sport so dull that it has to have its myriad of stoppages filled with expensive entertainment or adverts. Go to a soccer match, and watch the half-time entertainment there (hint: there isn't any. It's all about the sport).

Although I'm really not sure what swimming has to do with this, you kind of have to be half naked for that...

I appreciate not everyone will share my viewpoint on this - we're a broad church on here of many different cultures, and some of these cultures have very different takes on this sort of thing. Where one person sees freedom in grid girls, another might see a lack of respect and dignity for women and what is obviously a man's world.

That's fine, we should be able to discuss that on a forum and be open about it. But I won't have people tell me I'm a hypocrite; the "what about American Football/Basketball?" argument doesn't wash with me because I don't like them. I roll my eyes at any sport which rolls out cheerleaders. I mean every word I type.

[Bandicoot17]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

female gymnastics, swimming,

How are either of these sexualised in the same way a grid girl is??

Swimmers and Gymnasts are first and foremost athletes. If any one is watching it for the pretty girls I suggest they go back to the middle ages where they belong.

[Rodger Davies]

Originally Posted by J Jay

I do wonder what Fillon or Neveu would think if they stumbled upon this thread

"We generated more discussion with this decision than the entire BES test day at Paul Ricard: we rock at PR" I suspect.

There is no argument for or again this; if that's what the series wants to do, either for publicity or for moral reasons then so be it.

I don't get the point about it denying anyone a 'freedom' - it's just as much a freedom of the organisers to change the accepted practice in pursuit of good PR. Fortunately, in this instance it doesn't damage the on-track product in any way.

It does amuse me how it's supposedly a moral decision but their videos from last year used waaay to many shots of women on the grid and around the paddock. I wonder if the WEC cameramen and directors will spend a bit less time focusing on women around the grandstands or garages, who weren't actually there to be filmed in the first place. Personally, I hope so, but that's just because I prefer looking at Ferraris and Porsches (I know, Darwin would have loved to study me).

Anyway, back to the subject of the thread...

There are a lot of posts backing Audi for a strong performance at Silverstone, but I'm not sure how much I can see that. I think Porsche will be strong, but running lower d/f than everyone else, but I can't see Toyota being beaten this time out. Audi weren't the strongest last year, and clearly had some problems with their cars being a bit unstable, so I imagine they'll be a little bit more cautious this year. Will be good to see Jarvis at Silverstone at last, though I guess he'll be the least experienced Audi driver for the circuit ironically.

[Spyderman]

So what is it that you find so sexual about a grid-girl? Is it the fact that she is scantily dressed or her profession (or something else)?
If it is that she is scantily dressed, then the point is that swimmers (those with traditional swim suits) and gymnasts are too . Whats the difference? It's still a women's body being revealed? (sans pole)
If it's their profession, then I cant help you.

[Gingers4Justice]

I'm sure the aforementioned girls would have appreciated some of the passion and vitriol about their rights if the same amount was spent last April when some of them had to seek medical checks due to how long they were left in the cold.

[Bandicoot17]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

So what is it that you find so sexual about a grid-girl?

Revealing does not equal sexual though.

The sole point of a grid girl is for people to look at her, that's it. There's no other role.

A swimmer is not there to look nice and please the men. Nor is a gymnast. What they wear is a by-product of what they do, they need to be able to move around, or be streamlined etc. A grid girls outfit is there so that men can look at her. There's a time and place for that.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

It does amuse me how it's supposedly a moral decision but their videos from last year used waaay to many shots of women on the grid and around the paddock. I wonder if the WEC cameramen and directors will spend a bit less time focusing on women around the grandstands or garages, who weren't actually there to be filmed in the first place. Personally, I hope so, but that's just because I prefer looking at Ferraris and Porsches (I know, Darwin would have loved to study me).

I think everyone in this thread knows it was a business decision first and foremost. In my case I'm not bothered by that because I agree with the outcome. Utilitarianism is my second name, after all.

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

I think Porsche will be string

I know their top speed is amazing but they're not actually reaching a significant fraction of light speed yet. That won't be happening until 2018, assuming the FIA-ACO maintain relatively stable fuel flow limits.

While it is true that we haven't seen the best of Toyota and it could be amazing, it could also be slightly disappointing with similar reasoning. Also, IIRC Audi were doing very well on race pace - I think they were leading and matching Toyota over the lap - until the rain came and everything fell to pot so it's not baseless to say they will do well here, or at least better than at other (less downforce heavy) circuits. The handling issues at Silverstone seemed to be a one-off because nothing similar happened during the rest of the season so I wouldn't hold that against the R18s either.

[BudLightJaguar]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

So what is it that you find so sexual about a grid-girl? Is it the fact that she is scantily dressed or her profession (or something else)?
If it is that she is scantily dressed, then the point is that swimmers (those with traditional swim suits) and gymnasts are too . Whats the difference? It's still a women's body being revealed? (sans pole)
If it's their profession, then I cant help you.

That's an interesting point. I mean, many times I have to wonder how come nudity at local strip club (not literally, there's no strip club in my home town) is 'not acceptable' but nudity in a modern art performance is 'acceptable'. The latter one may even get praising reviews from local and national newspapers and (like here in Finland) some public funding.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I won't reply to your earlier response because I don't want this to look too argument-y, but in a nutshell - yes, I don't like half of these sports. American Football I find to be the most pathetic sport on the planet - a sport so dull that it has to have its myriad of stoppages filled with expensive entertainment or adverts. Go to a soccer match, and watch the half-time entertainment there (hint: there isn't any. It's all about the sport).

FYI- I'm not an American. I'm Portuguese. We play quite a bit of football (soccer) .

You are (of course) free to dislike American football. Millions love it, and millions of families watch and follow it in the States.

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Although I'm really not sure what swimming has to do with this, you kind of have to be half naked for that...

Is it not the nudity that disturbs you so?

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I appreciate not everyone will share my viewpoint on this - we're a broad church on here of many different cultures, and some of these cultures have very different takes on this sort of thing. Where one person sees freedom in grid girls, another might see a lack of respect and dignity for women and what is obviously a man's world.

Some of us show respect by protecting their freedom.

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

That's fine, we should be able to discuss that on a forum and be open about it. But I won't have people tell me I'm a hypocrite; the "what about American Football/Basketball?" argument doesn't wash with me because I don't like them. I roll my eyes at any sport which rolls out cheerleaders. I mean every word I type.

I don't doubt you for a moment. I just don't agree with you.

[Rodger Davies]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Utilitarianism is my second name, after all.

Your parents are cruel people.

Originally Posted by J Jay

I know their top speed is amazing but they're not actually reaching a significant fraction of light speed yet. That won't be happening until 2018, assuming the FIA-ACO maintain relatively stable fuel flow limits.

Haha, touché. Too fat fingers for modern technology.

Originally Posted by J Jay

While it is true that we haven't seen the best of Toyota and it could be amazing, it could also be slightly disappointing with similar reasoning. Also, IIRC Audi were doing very well on race pace until the rain came and everything fell to pot so it's not baseless to say they will do well here, or at least better than at other (less downforce heavy) circuits. The handling issues at Silverstone seemed to be a one-off because nothing similar happened during the rest of the season.

True, you're right that it's not really relevant for the rest of the year, too cold and damp, although COTA had similarities last year and any visit to the Nurburgring has potential to be Silverstonesque.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Bandicoot17

Revealing does not equal sexual though.

The sole point of a grid girl is for people to look at her, that's it. There's no other role.

A swimmer is not there to look nice and please the men. Nor is a gymnast. What they wear is a by-product of what they do, they need to be able to move around, or be streamlined etc. A grid girls outfit is there so that men can look at her. There's a time and place for that.

Point taken, so you will now push for the banning of models at car shows as well?

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

That's one sport. That I don't watch. I live in England - no idea how I'd even go about watching the Dallas Cowboys on TV?

Footballers (soccer) come on to the field with mascots, not pretty women, and that's the equivalent.

Engage in the discussion by all means but no need for that tone.

Apologies for the 'tone'. However the american football was just an example, most of the sports geared towards big mass audiences have cheerleaders / girls with little clothing to boost it up - and whether you follow them or not is irrelevant. You claimed that

I adore this sport and I find it infuriating when I'm left embarrassed by elements other sports and forms of entertainment left behind when my parents were still at school.

Which other sports and forms of entertainment have left it behind?

General mass sports? NO


Film/TV industry? NO


Pop culture? NO


Advertising? NO


Gaming? NO


Beauty contests? NO


Events and cons? NO

[Spyderman]

Cheer up Chiana. We now have this to look forward to:

[LC2guy]

Isn't it the FIA WEC ??? Surely then this will have to affect F1, WTCC, etc ?? I'm sure there are a number of disappointed girls being called today to cancel next weekends work, which is their livelihood after all. Not that it'll bother me either way, i'll be at Becketts ..........

[Deleted]

Smells like ACO decision, less FIA.

It gives them a PR headline by being the first one to do such a thing, and saves them few hundreds bucks every weekend for dinner parties surely

[Deleted]

And to those who thought we were the only ones having a go at this
http://forums.autosport.com/topic/19...re-grid-girls/

PS - their actual WEC thread, you know the only world sportscar related with the exception of Nissan thread I believe, is nine pages long... against three pages of grid girl ban.

[MoMedic9019]

This whole "grid-girl" thing is...

A: Stupid
B: Pointless

Marketing firms pay these girls a good chunk of money to do what a model does. Many of them model for other agencies, and are perfectly fine showing off their bodies. It's how they get paid. it's their chosen vocation until they no longer desire to do so.

If you don't like it, fine. If you do like it, that's also fine.

But there is zero reason to be apologetic for someone who has CHOSEN to do this on their own volition. These girls have zero affect on me, other than the fact that it makes it harder to get grid shots of cars when a bunch of creepy old jackwagons want their picture taken with a good looking girl.

Some of these girls are making $1500 a weekend, sometimes more...$500/day for a three day weekend is pretty good cash, especially if you have a day job not being a model.

Hell, in Japan "Race Queens" are a big deal....they make huge money from some of the companies...small time celebrities in the car world.

[LC2guy]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

This whole "grid-girl" thing is...

A: Stupid
B: Pointless

.

Exactly, it's a storm in a D-Cup

[GT6]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

This whole "grid-girl" thing is...

A: Stupid
B: Pointless

Marketing firms pay these girls a good chunk of money to do what a model does. Many of them model for other agencies, and are perfectly fine showing off their bodies. It's how they get paid. it's their chosen vocation until they no longer desire to do so.

If you don't like it, fine. If you do like it, that's also fine.

But there is zero reason to be apologetic for someone who has CHOSEN to do this on their own volition. These girls have zero affect on me, other than the fact that it makes it harder to get grid shots of cars when a bunch of creepy old jackwagons want their picture taken with a good looking girl.

Some of these girls are making $1500 a weekend, sometimes more...$500/day for a three day weekend is pretty good cash, especially if you have a day job not being a model.

Hell, in Japan "Race Queens" are a big deal....they make huge money from some of the companies...small time celebrities in the car world.

Well if they are paid that much then the WEC should now have enough cash to do some more advertising to increase attendences

[fieldodreams79]

I am of the opinion that if you are physically gifted and like showing it off, I am all for looking. On the other hand, as a father of a boy about to be at "that age", there's a feeling of discomfort when there's lots of T and A being thrust at us from all angles beyond the track. The Sprint Cup girls in full fire suits are more offensive to me than a woman being paid decent coin to literally stand while wearing very little clothing and hold a sign, umbrella or a flag.

In the end, this has no effect on the on track product and I'll likely never attend a wec race so it makes no real difference to me. It just seems like the fun police are encroaching everywhere, these days.