Group 5 Zakspeed Escort

[retro_msport]

The John Erik Oberg car has the same looking front wings of the Selholm Tuning car, had a look on Selholm's website, but there are no pictures of the car, but has been sort of featured in a copy of Retro Ford magazine, running a stoopid horsepower YB turbo, and using Selholms axle and gearbox,

[zakspeed65]

Kurtiejjj,
It's amazing to see these Escorts in Denmark in 86. The blue car you talk about has the same rear wing as the Ringshausen car but differs in the front wings and splitter from a Zakspeed car.
I have attached a few photos I uncovered while researching my cars history.
I'm not sure that these cars are Zakspeed cars at all, but very interesting all the same.

[ian beckett]

Hello Kurt.I am not sure that the car you refer to as the ex-Zakspeed Mustang is the car you mention although I admit it does look similar.I know that about this time Mustangs were being entered for the Midnight Sun race(at Keimola in Finland)? but I think they were Trans Am versions such as the ex JPS car of Robert Lappalainen.You are right however we do need a Scandinavian expert from this era.Certainly I know a lot of 'clone' cars were being raced at this time and I expect several of the Escorts were of this type.Back to my real area of 'expertise'any oddball BMW's from this era? Or should I start another topic?

[jonners]

Anyone remember a CCC article - can't remember date - all about Derek Bell's Zakspeed Group 5 Escort?? About 1978 I think - feature revolved around an event at the 'Ring. Memory is very hazy but i recall a nice cover shot.

Derek Bell = Escort?? Is my memory playing tricks???

[ian beckett]

No you are quite correct,I have the article you talk about although it does not reveal anything particularly relevant to this forum.

[retro_msport]

Originally Posted by jonners

Anyone remember a CCC article - can't remember date - all about Derek Bell's Zakspeed Group 5 Escort?? About 1978 I think - feature revolved around an event at the 'Ring. Memory is very hazy but i recall a nice cover shot.

Derek Bell = Escort?? Is my memory playing tricks???

He was driving another car there and CCC got him to drive both a Gp2 car and a Gp5 car,
As Ian said, nothing really relevent, except a few pictures, and the fact that Derek reckoned the Gp5 to be amazing ...

[kurtiejjj]

Originally Posted by ian beckett

Hello Kurt.I am not sure that the car you refer to as the ex-Zakspeed Mustang is the car you mention although I admit it does look similar.I know that about this time Mustangs were being entered for the Midnight Sun race(at Keimola in Finland)? but I think they were Trans Am versions such as the ex JPS car of Robert Lappalainen.

Hmm, I agree I'm not sure either, but the car looks extraordinarely similar to the Mustang: http://www.geocities.com/simontmallett/mustanggal1.html As far as I have found out the Mustang was just a Capri chassis with a Mustang body draped over it, it even ran at the Norisring by the looks of it. There's a good chance it came back to Germany after the American adventure. Anyway just speculating (oh dear, I believe that's illegal in some countries now).

Again Gary, great pics, by the looks of it these also came from somewhere in Scandinavia.

Now there was a bloke from scandinavia on here, who helped with the BMW 320 Gp5 thread...

[Alex E]

Yes it was Tzei, he seemed to know about cars in Finland etc....I will PM him.
Alex

[ian beckett]

Had a closer look at the bonnet section in post #48 above and the drivers name is Pekka.Underneath is his blood group Arh+.

[ian beckett]

Regarding the IMSA Mustang I am sure I saw a car at the Roush museum recently.I was looking for pictures for a model I am building and found it but cannot remember where exactly now!Roush has a large collection of cars he was involved with stored away.I do not think it is a museum as such ,maybe an American reader can help?

[kurtiejjj]

Originally Posted by ian beckett

Had a closer look at the bonnet section in post #48 above and the drivers name is Pekka.Underneath is his blood group Arh+.

That would be Pekka Korkeakoski then, I was going through my PMs and 10/10 member Don Vito said Pekka drove the car in post #48. Other names of escort drivers he came up with were: Kalle Jokinen and Hannu Koivumäki, not zakspeed drivers though.

Quite true about the Roush connection Ian. I've got an unbuilt model kit of the Mustang here and one of stickers say 'Team Zakspeed Roush'.

[tzei]

Hi

Alex E - you woke me up

Dunno much about Fords but i had rear fenders like seen on these Zakspeed cars. I found a few articles etc about Pekka - i think we have been racing in same events organized by Historic Race Finland (http://www.historicrace.fi/). Pekka drove 911 at 2003 - i think.

Here is something about cars that we have or have had:
http://www.geocities.com/supersaloon...tolista-1.html
There isn't a pic of Pekka's car but under that is a pic of red ford... my fenders were red so they might have been on Kalle Jokinen's car? Sold fenders to a local ford enthusiast.

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by tzei

Here is something about cars that we have or have had:
http://www.geocities.com/supersaloon...tolista-1.html
There isn't a pic of Pekka's car but under that is a pic of red ford... my fenders were red so they might have been on Kalle Jokinen's car? Sold fenders to a local ford enthusiast.

Slightly OT here: The Kalle Jokinen car in the above link and this picture http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-08-24-063.jpg are not only of the same car, but a photoshopped version of the exact same picture! Details of the car and the track surface and background are all similar to me.
The racingsportscar picture are of Dane Benny S. Christensen, who had at one point had a 3.2 BMW straight six turbo engine installed. Don't know when he started racing this car, but by 1982 he was there, but faded away as the decade progressed and a new car emerged from his work shop, this time an M3. I think most of the Danish "Zakspeed" cars where look-a-likes only, but not info emerged at the time.

http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-08-24-nv4.jpg - This is Henning Petersen from the same meeting and racing a Mampe/Zakspeed look-a-like, here racing with a 2 litre 16 valve BMW engine. Fast forward to 1997 or 1998 it's most current owner Preben Jessen had a 3.5 BMW M88 engine in the thing, and as late as 2003 he complained that the frame was built too high at the front, upsetting the handling. I think 2004 was the last time it was raced, sounding beautifully when running proper.

Jesper

[zakspeed65]

Kurtiejjj,

I have talked to Leif and he has confirmed that the car was in Macau late 78 in Gp5 trim also he was sure the car is the Ex Europa Mobel (Blue/White) 76 Gp2 car!
Sorry about the date mix up, but we are talking about 30 years ago.

I have also tracked down the photos of the cut up car, I am travelling and will post soon.

[retro_msport]

Is it .. or isnt it ?

http://www.bebo.com/FlashBox.jsp?FlashBoxId=4757448126

[zakspeed65]

Hi Gary,

This car my well have a long history but not with the Zakspeed name.

It differs quite a bit from a Gp 2 car and I have never seem this body kit on a Gp 5 car built by Zakspeed. It looks very similar to the "Sansui" car or the "White" car in one of the photos I posted in this thread. Both similar body style!!

Also in 75-78, would need to be a BDG, Alloy or Steel Block somewhere near 2000cc.

In my opinion, NO!!!

Cheers.

PS, the car looks great in CF.

[retro_msport]

Originally Posted by zakspeed65

Hi Gary,

This car my well have a long history but not with the Zakspeed name.

It differs quite a bit from a Gp 2 car and I have never seem this body kit on a Gp 5 car built by Zakspeed. It looks very similar to the "Sansui" car in one of the photos I posted in this thread.

Thats what got me to thinking it may have been the Sansui car.

Originally Posted by zakspeed65

PS, the car looks great in CF.

shame its got my ugly mug in it
and the cars comming along nicely, with a lot of thanks to you

[kurtiejjj]

Hmm, another great addition to the thread! Even though it most propably isn't Zakspeed. It looks a lot like the Sansui car, could be the same, at least it comes from the same area..

Gary(zak65), excuse me for poking my nose in but have you called the owner of the original Heyer mampe escort yet?

[retro_msport]

re: the jenspeed car, i've asked some questions on another site, see if anyone can dig up some history, mainly because as far as i'm aware Jenspeed are famous for engines, not fabrication, which means that the cars shell may have been bought in.

It would be good to have some closure on the cars

ie
Alloy space frame (chassis No ?????)No1 : scrapped
Alloy space frame (chassis No ?????)No2 : scrapped
Monocoque (chassis No ????) : Restored by Gary (zak65) Currently in NZ

Please fill in the list

[retro_msport]

some info on the Jenspeed car

The original shell was bought new from ford in 1976, and built specifically for the saloon car racing in sweden. Its raced in many guises and in many formula's and has been very successful.

Rumour has it, that it was once owned and kept in Britain, maybe even raced as the previous owner bought the car with seat on the right.

[rs1600]

I think the Jenspeedcar is this one who was build by Leif Nilsson in 1977 with a 1600 Bda in it . The picture is from the magazine SPORT-AUTO from number 7/77. Maybe Kurtiejjj can translate it in english.

[kurtiejjj]

Aha RS1600 has joined us great!

Article says that Leif built the car only by looking at cars from the DRM. Also says he hoped to drive it in Germany with a 2 litre engine instead of the 1600cc one. Even though it isn't a Zakspeed it's very interesting actually.

[retro_msport]

The thing i find very interesting about the cars is the progression and developement as we go through the cars. The first ones being more like the Gp4's with the body kit added, then the cars got engines moved back, then the trans tunnels modified, then the addition of outboard of the chassis rails 4 links (radius arms) and then these where lengthend to sit infront of the 'B' pillar, and then the addition of an Alloy cage before finally we come to the 2 spaceframed cars using the alloy cages.
Which all leads me, in my opinion, that the Escorts are the test beds for the Capris.
The early N/A cars didnt need rads in the rear 1/4's as theres room up front, but this space was earmarked for the two charge coolers on the capris, so they tested the idea on some Escorts.
Also, when you look at the build of the Capris, they look as if everything was finalized before the build.
Even so, the Escorts are still the best. As they where, before the 2 spaceframed cars, still steel monocoque cars, not 'specials'. As we all know, theres even less of the Capri in the Zakspeed Capris than Escort in the 2 Spaceframed cars.

So, do we agree with this?

Early cars : 6 linked (25" links), steel shell, rear tubbs, steel cage
Later cars: engines moved rearwards
.............: radius arms moved outside of chassis rails, transmission tunnels enlarged.
.............: radius arms lengthend to pickup past the B pillar
.............: addition of an Alloy cage.
.............: full alloy spaceframe

[rs1600]

Sorry retro_msport this is to mutch tecnical english for me:-( What i can say is: there are only five Group 5-Escorts build by Zakspeed. First is Garys car from Newzealand this is the car who drive A.Hahne in early 1977 converted from the Europa-Möbel-car driven by Klaus Ludwig in 1976. Hans Heyers first Gr.5-car was converted from his Castrol sponsord car in 1976. This car is still in Germany and looks very sad. The third car is this car who drive his first race at the NORISRING in July 1977 by Hans Heyer. At this time A.Hahne became the old car from Heyer and Dr.T.Betzler drove A.Hahnes old car with his own sponsor Toshiba.This "NORISRING-CAR is a steel body with alloy-cage in it but no space-frame-car. Later it was modified in the engine-bay with other innerwings made from alloy to take up the turbo-engine. Later this car is the D&W sponsored car and also the KÜMMERLING sponsored car driven by W.Boller.In the meanwhile this car where cut in to pieces by his last owner.(The same Guy who owned the first Heyer car an the only one space-framed car what came back from scandinavia to germany in 1999 unfortunately this car is cut in pieces too.) The fourth car is the only space-frame -Escort Gr.5 ever build.Later driven by MARIO KETTERER and than this car was selled to scandinavia. The fifth car build by Zakspeed is the old car from Werner Schommers who drove the car in 1976 with WEISBERG-WERKZEUGE sponsor on it .This car was build to the Gr.5-spec. as a spare-car to drive it in Kyalamy in the end of 1977. But he never drove an being in stock for many years and is also still in Germany.
Cheers

[kurtiejjj]

@rs1600: 6 cars surely? You forgot to mention the 4th monocoque of Ringshausen. The photos on page 3 clearly show 4 Zak escorts together.

Here list as I understand it:

1. Gary's car, ex Ludwig Europamöbel then Gp5 Hahne, Toshiba and then of to the East

2. Heyer's Mampe car, ex Castol, now with Mr Molnar.

3. RS1600's car

4. Ringshausen's car, which was already driven in a 1000km race at the end of 1976, and is the oldest Gp5 escort and raced by Ringshausen in 1977 and 1978, then disappears (to scandinavia as well??)

Space frame cars
5. Space frame turbo car driven by Ketterer now in pieces and owned by doctor Stein.

6. Last space-frame car driven by Boller, now with Molnar as well, but without a chassis, he told me he had to weld a new one.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this is the way I see it.