Group A Ford Mustang ETC/DTM

[Jesper OH]

Here's links to a couple of DTM pictures from Zolder 5th April 1992 to the best of my abbilities:

#33(?) Gerd Ruch:
http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/ex...splay/15810770

#51 Jürgen Feucht:
http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/ex...EyMCI7fQ/pos/1

Fred Räker raced the second Ruch Motorsport entry #34 on that same event. For some reason this would be the only time Gerd Ruch actually started a DTM race in Mustang at Zolder. He was there in both '89 and '90, but both times DNS'ed.

Jesper

[KA]

More from the same source- Fred Raker's Ruch Mustang after a close encounter with the barriers at Singen:
http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/pc...splay/15531899
http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/pc...splay/15531920

Another shot of Ruch at Zolder
http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/pc...splay/12016119

[Jesper OH]

Thanks KA for those extra shots.

Notice that the Räker car seems red underneath the body work - The first Ruch entry in late '88 was a red car!

Regarding the last picture, it must be 1993 rather than 1991, since the body work is well beyond a standard Mustang, and that my previous statement regarding the Gerd Ruch/Jürgen Feucht 1992 pictures are correct.

OT I remember Singen from the Eurosport 1 hour highlights on Sunday evenings as one long demolition derby. 1991 was the first visit and survived to 1995 and believe that the '96 ITC only was the reason this race was dropped. Don't know anything about Singen, but the temporary track was settled in an industrial area, so at least the carnage didn't disturb any citizens.

Jesper

[KA]

Think I might have some DTM Mustang shots from Donington as well. I'll see what I can find.

[Optix]

Hey guys!

Sorry to drag this thread back from the dead.....I have a friend that is verrrry interested in the bodywork and specifications for the black buffalo boots/ late nineties mustangs, specifically the fender flares. ANY INFORMATION OR PHOTOS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!!!!

Theres just not a whole lot out there on these cars, and if anyone has any info on kits to achieve that look, i'm also interested.

Thanks.

[KA]

Originally Posted by Optix

Hey guys!

Sorry to drag this thread back from the dead.....I have a friend that is verrrry interested in the bodywork and specifications for the black buffalo boots/ late nineties mustangs, specifically the fender flares. ANY INFORMATION OR PHOTOS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!!!!

Theres just not a whole lot out there on these cars, and if anyone has any info on kits to achieve that look, i'm also interested.

Thanks.

That's the car raced by Jurgen Feucht?
http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/pc...splay/12016138

A few more, showing the car at different stages of evolution from a fairly 'straight Group A' look to the big wings and flared arches look of later years
http://www.fotocommunity.de/search?q=dtm+mustang

http://cdn.fotocommunity.com/photos/16957521.jpg
http://cdn.fotocommunity.com/photos/16119818.jpg
http://cdn.fotocommunity.com/photos/15810730.jpg
http://cdn.fotocommunity.com/photos/16932830.jpg

[KA]

Looks as if the car still survives
http://cdn.fotocommunity.com/photos/16941425.jpg

More here
http://ringfotos-galerie.eu/thumbnails.php?album=108

[Optix]

Thanks. Yeah, i found out that car is still driving, there is a video on youtube of it driving in 2009 fora DTM revival type of thing, let me see if i can find it....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpBsuESuk8

Pretty cool.

I also found out where i think the car is...automuseum rosso bianco, in Aschaffenurg, germany.

Most of those links you posted didn't work, they didn't allow for content linking.

[lemansfan]

The Rosso Bianco Museum is closed since February 2006 !!!

[Bown]

http://www.my105.com.au/classified.asp?id=14505 Pine Pac chassis # 1. Very good car.

[Al Weyman]

Blimey, How Much Aus$ 160,000 = £91,000?!!!!!! Looks a nice bit of kit though.

As a matter of interest can anyone see where the exhaust runs on that car, reason I ask is that my IROC-Z is a similar period/spec car although prepared to more of a Group 1.5 trim and thats been one of my problems as the chassis is just too tight to run a decent twin system so I have to run a siamesed 3" pipe back into a transverse silencer with twin outlets and probably costs me gee gees so I wanted to see how the professionals got round it on this car but I cant see any exhaust and there seems to be loads of bits and bobs underneath that would get in the way if as it appears in the photo, it does not have the exhaust fitted when it was taken!!

[Graham Clayton]

Originally Posted by Steve Holmes

Bruce and Wayne Anderson from Pinepac racing ran two Group A Mustangs in New Zealand Group A. The first was the ex Don Smith/Bo Seton car from Bathurst 1984. The second was NZ built.

Here is a photo of one of the Anderson cars at the Nissan 500:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/8021817@N07/2802852564/

Is this the ex-Seton car or the NZ built car?

[KA]

According to this piece on the Anderson/Pinepac cars, I think it's the Seton-built car:

http://www.nzmustang.com/Images/Hist...s/pinepac1.htm

Apparently they ran the Seton car at Pukekohe, but switched to the NZ-built car for Wellington, after they'd rolled the Seton car in practice
http://www.nzmustang.com/Images/Hist...led%201986.jpg

[Graham Clayton]

Some great period footage of one of the Pinepac Mustangs:

http://youtu.be/cK1KKGxUICQ

Is this the Seton-built car or the NZ built car?

[Graham Clayton]

Originally Posted by William Dale Jr

I'd say you're right. On the Sierra Cosworth video by Duke, Stuart Turner said that the Sierra was chosen because it was really the only available European car; the Granada was too big, the Cortina was on the way out, and the Merkeur (and presumably the Mustang, too) were American cars and using them in Ford's European touring car efforts would have presented the wrong image.

Who decided to homologate the Mustang for Group A racing? Was it Detroit or Ford in the UK?

[Al Weyman]

I found out recently GM followed suit and actually homologated the 3rd generation Camaro but I believe shelved its competiton use with the emergence of the Mercur (XR4Ti).

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Graham Clayton

Who decided to homologate the Mustang for Group A racing? Was it Detroit or Ford in the UK?

I think Ford Cologne officially applied initially as they needed a stopgap between the Capri the Sierra for a year or two?

Ford UK probably didn't as CC's effort was essentially a private one with Belgian sponsorship so would surely have picked up homologation papers from Germany?

[Big Pat]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I found out recently GM followed suit and actually homologated the 3rd generation Camaro but I believe shelved its competiton use with the emergence of the Mercur (XR4Ti).

The 3rd gen camaros saw plenty of action on this side of the Atlantic however. It was run in all sort of "showroom stock series" and they even had their own one make series in Canada.

None of these were run under Group A rules, as far as I know...

In-board vid here:

http://youtu.be/_L7yRN-zXDE

Series promo here :

http://youtu.be/H8vZDVQ8e9E

[Al Weyman]

Seem very softly sprung on rear.

[Graham Clayton]

The Mustang campaigned by Bert Moritz in the 1988 and 1989 Dutch championship:

[Superkart_Rob]

Hi All, I helped Reinhold Gropper in the DTM back in the 80's.

The car was built in 1982 for Vince Woodman and raced under the Esso colours in the UK. It was built by CC Motorsport later to become DCRS (Dave Cook Racing Services). As far as I know the car did SPA in the Belga colours with Vince Woodman and Martin brothers.

After Spa it was sold to Bodo Jähn of Auto Verie in Berlin and from memory they had a shunt in it causing damage to the front.

The car was then bought by Reinhold Gropper from Paderborn in Germany. I was a weekend warrior for Reinhold helping him on his other race cars along with Ray Prince (RIP) who was serving in the Army (REME) was an ex F1 race mechanic and he knew the history of the Mustang and has worked for Vince Woodman and Jonny Buncombe before joining the British Army.

Strangely Ray was based only 3 km from Rienhold’s VAG dealership. We helped straighten the car and it was then painted the Blue and White as the attached photo.


The car raced in the DTM 1985 and the ETC round at Nurburgring along side the Asch mustang, the Allen Grice (AUS) Chickadee Commodore, TWR Bastos Rovers, Texaco Ford Sierra RS500. Plus some other races. The photo was taken at Kassel Calden Flugplatz. This was one of many airfields used in Germany in the 80’s. Depoltz, Mainz Finten, Erding and Wunsdorf to name a few.

The Trint-car (FORD Germany Backed) was then raced by Roland Asch also during 1985. What we did notice there were some political moves with the engines supplied by (from memory Neil Brown). Asch ended up with some higher powered motors. Gropper who was a privateer ended up with some basic engines. (Foul play I hear you say. Can’t prove it I reply).
The Cook built car was better in the build quality, set up and brakes. The gearbox and diff coolers were mounted in a way the they worked well with hardly no effect to the air flow under the car.
Ford Cologne were using the mustangs as a stopgap from memory between the Capri the Sierra for a year or two? The Merkur XR4i was rebadged Ford Sierra RS500 and was being used in the DTM along with a Ford Escort XRTi in 85 / 86. This was driven by the lady driver Nodes.
I left Germany and don’t know what happened to the car after 86. In 1989 I worked for DCRS in the Vauxhall BTCC Team. We won the title that year with John Celland.
Reinhold Gropper is still racing Mustangs. 1965 one’s that is in the historic / classic touring car championship in Germany.

[chunterer]

Hi Superkart_Rob, thanks for posting and giving us some more insight on the CC Mustang that ended up in Germany!

If I may, I'd like to reiterate a few bits that we know which support what you have said, with one or two alterations!

As you say the car was built for 1983 by CC Motorsport for Vince Woodman's use. They may well have been hoping to use the car in Britain (but the MSA obviously didn't increase the upper class capacity) but the Belga support came from the Martin bros connection I suspect.

The car I think was quite late out on to the tracks in 1983 as it wasn't seen in the ETCC until Spa, maybe a race earlier? It may have done some Belgian rounds as practice?

The car did the last few rounds at Silverstone and Zolder, and it is after the last round when it must've been sold to Jahn. That is interesting as we thought that it had gone straight to Gropper, so thanks for the heads up on that and the car's subsequent history in Germany.

The Neil Brown engines link is in itself quite interesting, as they were mainly a UK engine supplier. They had a close relationship with CC though, both before (Capri) and after the Mustang (635) so maybe CC and/or your good self assisted with organising a further supply of engines after the car left their hands and onto Germany?

The idea that Neil Brown also supplied the other DTM Mustang teams, one of which was effectively a works outfit, with engines is also very interesting and not well known. I would have assumed that the others Mustang engines were Zakspeed tended? Either way, the possibility that Neil Brown did engines for overseas touring car teams, other than just the UK during the period is something to explore further.

As well as supplying CC engines, I seem to recall Neil Brown also doing a lot of other Ford and GM Group A engine work, alongside their successful Ford Pinto and F3 units.

[Superkart_Rob]

Hi,

I do know that Vince raced the Mustang in the UK as it held the touring car lap record at Thruxton. As far as I know it still does. The car was built late 82 early 83.

Correct, the Spa event was mainly down to J-M Martin.

The engine issue was quite a big issue at the time from what I remember. I know that Zakspeed were dealing with Asch but the engines from what I can remember initially came via the UK for some reason. I am also sure that Klaus von Barby who was at Ford was involved somewhere.

I haven't seen Dave Cook for nearly 20 years. He was a director of the BTCC for ages. I see John 2 or 3 times year. Normally at Goodwood or the Autosport Show.

This brings back some great memories.

[Hamness]

I was at that Thruxton meeting when Vince raced the Mustang. Can't remember the exact meeting but have a feeling it was a non-championship saloon race at the City Formula 3 meeting at the very back end of 83. Sure someone will elaborate.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Hamness

I was at that Thruxton meeting when Vince raced the Mustang. Can't remember the exact meeting but have a feeling it was a non-championship saloon race at the City Formula 3 meeting at the very back end of 83. Sure someone will elaborate.

That's right, I forgot that, thanks Hamness.

I was going to go with my Dad but we didn't go in the end and I think it wasn't until 1984 sometime when I saw the programme that I noticed it on the entry for that City sponsored special saloon race.

Ok Bob so therefore the car must have been sold very late in the year or even early in 1984? Come to think of it, didn't the CC BMW GB deal come together pretty late as well?

I'm wondering how seriously Vince and CC were hoping the MSA were going to change to up the big class capacity in the BSCC to allow them to run, or whether the BMW deal was the reason for cancelling the project?