[WEC] Alpine going to LMP1

[Bcarr6]

I wonder if organisers have pushed Alpine towards this move a little too, P2 really isnt a place for manufacturers, so its a logical progression.

[helgi]

They say, grandfathered LMP1 to be on a par with Нурегсагs. Surprise, surprise. What for did they need to build a complete new machinery if they can bring some garbage from the museum and still be competitive. Utter circus.

[deggis]

Fillon Confirms LMP1 to Be At “Same Level” as LMH in 2021
https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...s-lmh-in-2021/

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by deggis

Fillon Confirms LMP1 to Be At “Same Level” as LMH in 2021
https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...s-lmh-in-2021/

Also confirmed in that story that Signatech will be running the cars.

What do you reckon the chances would be of LMP1 grandfathered performance equalling LMH performance if Rebellion had decided to continue rather than Alpine.
I reckon 0%.

[Aysedasi]

Yep, 100%. (Agreed, that is.... ).

[Mike E]

Aha! This means Rebellion can change their mind and enter next year with equal performance.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by GingerPixel

On one hand I'm pleased to have another team at the top of the field, but isn't the grandfathering of the old LMP2 on steriods a bit dissapointing?

Isn't adapting random chassis into something else the very heart of Le Mans?

[joeb]

Originally Posted by helgi

They say, grandfathered LMP1 to be on a par with Нурегсагs. Surprise, surprise. What for did they need to build a complete new machinery if they can bring some garbage from the museum and still be competitive. Utter circus.

What museum? and what garbage? The car placed second a few days ago! The ACO always said the current cars would be eligible next season, just never said with what regulations exactly. The R13 is still going to be slowed to make it on pace with hypercar.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by joeb

What museum? and what garbage? The car placed second a few days ago! The ACO always said the current cars would be eligible next season, just never said with what regulations exactly. The R13 is still going to be slowed to make it on pace with hypercar.

You’re screaming in to the void responding to comments without a basis in reality

[chernaudi]

Of course, how will the ACO slow a car that ran 3:15 in qualifying at LM just a few days ago to running 3:30?


Granted, I very much doubt that the LMP1 Hypercars will be doing 3:30s. Somewhere between 3:20 and 3:25 is more realistic, given that even though they'll be heavier, and have less hybrid power, they'll be making a guaranteed 700bhp or so engine power, which is nearly a 100 or there abouts more than what Toyota are making now. They will also be longer and wider, especially wider (about 2000mm vs 1900mm) and might run wider wheels and tires.

[TF110]

I think they'll ballast the car to 950, 1000kg and cut engine power by a nice chunk. I also believe 3:30 is a very conservative estimate for the pace of hypercar. They'll be at least as quick as current lmp2 imo.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Of course, how will the ACO slow a car that ran 3:15 in qualifying at LM just a few days ago to running 3:30?


Granted, I very much doubt that the LMP1 Hypercars will be doing 3:30s. Somewhere between 3:20 and 3:25 is more realistic, given that even though they'll be heavier, and have less hybrid power, they'll be making a guaranteed 700bhp or so engine power, which is nearly a 100 or there abouts more than what Toyota are making now. They will also be longer and wider, especially wider (about 2000mm vs 1900mm) and might run wider wheels and tires.

LMH and LMDH are limited to 670bhp in total (ICE + hybrid)

[deggis]

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...nterview-2020/

DeepL translation:

When Renault returns to Le Mans, will it be with a Hypercar or an LMDH car?

Abiteboul: Next year there will be a special scheme. We don't have to decide in 2021. The focus now is on making the best possible use of this special rule. For the future, we are looking at the LMDH solution. But nothing has been decided yet.

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by Mike E

LMH and LMDH are limited to 670bhp in total (ICE + hybrid)

I've read it as the ICE is limited to 680bhp or so max output + 200kw (260bhp) hybrid which can only be deployed above 120kmph (75mph).

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I've read it as the ICE is limited to 680bhp or so max output + 200kw (260bhp) hybrid which can only be deployed above 120kmph (75mph).

Well everything I've seen clearly spelled out the LMDh output at 670 total hp target. 40hp from the electric and 630 or so from the ICE. I'm guessing closer to 650 from the ICE but that could be restricted back down. I have not seen as much detail on the LMH regs

[Mike E]

'500 kW peak of combined power (sum of power resulting from internal combustion engine (ICE) and hybrid system)'

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2020/0...-released.html

[canaglia]

would be nice to see how max power will be kept under control for hybrid cars.
I mean, so far TS050 ICE was in the range of 550-600hp (according to ff rate) + >400hp from ERS with a combined power of about 1000hp during hybrid boost.
The lack of ICE top power compared to rebellion and ginetta was anyhow compensated by a rocketlike acceleration in corners exit.
With new LMH specs, it will be unlikely to see again huge 8MJ ERS since toyota won't be anymore allowed to release >400hp hybrid boost on front wheels.


Now, if toyota at example sets 500hp from ICE + a 170hp boost from ERS, GRSS would get the regs. 670hp during hybrid boost release, but it would suffer a huge power deficit for most of the lap lenght once hybrid boost fades aways compared to glickenhaus that will always get 670hp from its ICE engine no matter what.

Wonder if there will be some kind of "dynamic" power release with ICE limited to at example 500hp when hybrid boost is released and then back again to >600hp when boost ends. Hard to explain in few words.

[chernaudi]

Probably easier to give everyone about the same power on ICE and restrict hybrid deployment. The ACO are doing that with LMP1 Hypercar the same way they did with the Audi AWD hybrid system on the early R18 hybrids.

[chernaudi]

I can see Sebah and Signatech joining up if Alpine wants to run two cars, but I believe that only one car has been confirmed as being for sure.

[TF110]

Might be advantageous for Toyota and hybrid cars to plead for no limit on the release time of their hybrid power. So a battery pack that holds a lot of charge for a long deployment, but low on the power ~150hp

[canaglia]

don't know, if ACO gives toyota/peugeot 670hp from ICE + hybrid boost, it basically kills not hybrid LMH before even race

[helgi]

I'll just bet on second place for that Courage LC70 in 2021 LM. That's how predictable that French affair is.

[Tique]

Originally Posted by canaglia

don't know, if ACO gives toyota/peugeot 670hp from ICE + hybrid boost, it basically kills not hybrid LMH before even race

From what I recall, the hybrid system will not be allowed to be used under 120km/h. It should help the non hybrid LMH

[chernaudi]

It has to be remembered that under those conditions that the non hybrid R18 was just as fast as the hybrid ones, at least on a flying lap.

[Deleted]

What is the point of hybrid boost or non hybrid boost dialogue. Discussion of technical qualities in context of bop class is like discussing workings of stock market in context of national lottery. Over at LM last weekend Hindhaugh compared the new rules to the 2014 ones, you know reusing the phrase "just don't think about how it's [the complexity] done and just enjoy it", and it felt about as comparatively accurate as King Trump's most remarks in regards to COVID. In fact, if one wants to make a real comparison between the old Le Mans and new Le Mans, I think this suits me the best... in the old world of Le Mans the regulations meant Toyota was Toyota and ByKolles was ByKolles. You didn't even have to know anything about the sport to understand that dynamic. It meant there was Ferrari and there was Minardi and that's how it was supposed to be. Meanwhile the new Le Mans the regulations see Toyota and ByKolles as basically the same exact thing, the same car, which just as well could be a Lada or Saab. The regulations claim ByKolles with 9 people garage staff and 2 caterers should be able to beat 900 staff Toyota in qualifying. If they are even 1 second off or have 0,5 second longer pitstops, the promised regulations, or well the pretense of regulations, have already failed. And in fact if they are that 1 second off from Toyota, then the additional post-qualifying bop penalties, which already have been in use in GTE every single year since 2016 (and thus rendering qualifying and this new hyperpole completely useless), should also be brought to play.

As for "Alpine", they'll get generous Christmas-summer presents for next year for sure, but for 2022, staying in the Formula Le Oreca class with two platinums and fake-silver driver would have been safer for class wins. Peugeot will have more money and political power in the bop courtrooms, at least until they take first win. After that I think they'll hand it to Alpine, unless GM or whoever coming over from DPi builds a new VIP building to Porsche Curves