Round 15 Bommarito Automotive Group 500. Gateway Motorsports Park. Madison, Illinois.

[Dixon9]

Originally Posted by jimclark

You're right. Now there's all of a whopping three that dominate.

those 3 teams comprise almost half the field, especially before the CGR trim to a 2 car team. slightly different to the other series we're alluding to.

9 drivers race for the big three and Bourdais, Wickens and Sato are hardly slouches and are always in the mix.

with the other half of the grid not mentioned i think there are very few, kanaan being one such exception, who can blame their equipment more than themselves.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by jimclark

IndyCar aside, what about the development costs for these formulas for keeping the cost down? How hard do they have to try to develop in series when you're only going to be BoP'ed if you become "unequally faster"?
And about IndyCar, what designers? There is no designing (and the innovation that comes with it) when you must run what's handed to you.

Like good movies and shows, why not just just script it and have the teams play the parts correctly. 'Could have the whole field duking it out right to the wire. How exciting. 'May as well go watch some Rocky movies (or the like).
That way at least you know you're not being had, you know it's fake from the git-go.

As I said, there's always going to be a certain amount of contrivance and Bop is a great example.

There has been "some" designing and innovation in IndyCar, the DW 12 has changed beyond all recognition.

However, the reality is there won't be any real design and innovation, unless IndyCar opens up chassis design to other manufacturers. Even if they do, how many chassis manufacturers will take part? They will want to recoup their R&D costs and that will be passed on to the teams. That cost in turn, has to be met by the money teams get from sponsors and teams are only going to attract sponsors if they are winning.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

As I said, there's always going to be a certain amount of contrivance and Bop is a great example.

There has been "some" designing and innovation in IndyCar, the DW 12 has changed beyond all recognition.

However, the reality is there won't be any real design and innovation, unless IndyCar opens up chassis design to other manufacturers. Even if they do, how many chassis manufacturers will take part? They will want to recoup their R&D costs and that will be passed on to the teams. That cost in turn, has to be met by the money teams get from sponsors and teams are only going to attract sponsors if they are winning.

There needn't "always going to be a certain amount of contrivance". Point in fact, review the past.

"some designing and innovation in IndyCar" is not by the teams , as you said. (Whilst at it, what are these "innovations"? The wonderful fenders? What else?

"the reality is there won't be any real design and innovation, unless IndyCar opens up chassis design to other manufacturers." 'Guess you misunderstood my posts, that's what I've been saying all along.

"That cost in turn, has to be met by the money teams get from sponsors and teams are only going to attract sponsors if they are winning." I know of no series where there aren't consistent backmarkers. Amazingly, I see sponsors names on all these cars.

I still follow racing, it's the only sport (not game) that I do. It's been my passion since about 5 years old. 'just less passionate about it now that it's become more of a show than a sport.

Really enjoyed Monza, even with the DRS...

[NaBUru38]

So far this season, IndyCar has 14 drivers with at least a podium, of which 9 have at least two.

F1 has just 7 drivers with podiums, with Pérez having just one after Verstappen and Ricciardo crashed each other at Azerbaijan.

[Purist]

The problem is, like in the last round of selection, each chassis builder wants exclusivity on the field; they don't want to have to divide it up and try to still make a profit on it.

Yes, there are backmarkers in every series, but the matter of degree is important. There's NOBODY even close to as off the front-running pace in IndyCar as there was in CART in 1996. So, the sponsors feel that much better about at least having a shot with their car/driver. Still, you have seen more issues in the mid-pack and even near the front of not having a full, season-long sponsorship from a given company or set of companies.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

So far this season, IndyCar has 14 drivers with at least a podium, of which 9 have at least two.

F1 has just 7 drivers with podiums, with Pérez having just one after Verstappen and Ricciardo crashed each other at Azerbaijan.

And.........?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by jimclark

There needn't "always going to be a certain amount of contrivance". Point in fact, review the past.

"some designing and innovation in IndyCar" is not by the teams , as you said. (Whilst at it, what are these "innovations"? The wonderful fenders? What else?

"the reality is there won't be any real design and innovation, unless IndyCar opens up chassis design to other manufacturers." 'Guess you misunderstood my posts, that's what I've been saying all along.

"That cost in turn, has to be met by the money teams get from sponsors and teams are only going to attract sponsors if they are winning." I know of no series where there aren't consistent backmarkers. Amazingly, I see sponsors names on all these cars.

I still follow racing, it's the only sport (not game) that I do. It's been my passion since about 5 years old. 'just less passionate about it now that it's become more of a show than a sport.

Really enjoyed Monza, even with the DRS...

I agree, there needn't be a certain amount of contrivance and I also enjoyed Monza, even with DRS.

[mstets]

What company could be expected to produce an alternate chassis at this point, if the field was open?

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by mstets

What company could be expected to produce an alternate chassis at this point, if the field was open?

'Don't know . Roger could go back to building cars, for one. Dallara for two. When a market is opened, usually there is someone that likes to fill the void so I wouldn't be to worried about it. "Build it (the market) and they will come"

'Doesn't really matter. If it remained just Dallara producing cars, and the teams were allowed to develop them and their bodywork, it would still be an improvement as far as I'm concerned.

To each his own. Variety....the spice of life. No?

[NaBUru38]

There are four LMP2 chassis manufacturers, and one of them struggles a lot.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

There are four LMP2 chassis manufacturers, and one of them struggles a lot.

There's really 3 (does anyone other than Mazda run a Multimatic?) and only one chassis really performs outside of DPis so not exactly a good example there.

Penske is only making a chassis again when you pay him. He may love the racing but he loves his business even more. He doesn't get near the funds he used to get and buying all the Honda EZs that appear on eBay gets expensive. But it looks mean with them all lined up before the garage

[jimclark]

Points being?

This is auto racing. Not the sponsor parade and airtime show.
The best rise to the top, no matter which.
I want to continue being a fan of auto racing, not the latter.