Ford Escort RS1600i/RST Grp A/N

[chunterer]

As I mentioned OT in the Rover thread, there was at least 2 Escort RS1600's competing in the Wellington Group A race early in 1986.

One we have already identified as the blue/red John Jeffries Richard Belcher car but there is regular views of a plain white car with what appears to have a 'deeper' front bumper/splitter arrangement.

It may just be the colour scheme making it look different but to me that car looks like either the Rob Hall car or even Barry Lee car from the 1984 Trimoco BSCC?

Wonder if we can find out more about these anyone?

[KA]

There's a suggestion a page back in the thread that as well as the Jeffreys car, one or more of the Datapost RS1600is went to NZ. I reckon there's at least one pic in one of my Bathurst annuals showing an Escort at one of the NZ races- I'll have a look and see if there's any I recognise

[GBRM]

There's a very good Mk3 Escort owners forum with the history of the competition cars etc and there's some great pictures. Also, one of them has recently bought one of the original Datapost cars.

[GBRM]

One of the Datapost cars in NZ http://www.seriesoneturbo.co.uk/showthread.php?t=967

[KA]

Lots of NZ RS1600i stuff here-
http://bbs.rsownersclub.co.uk/showthread.php?t=64390
haven't read it all in detail, but there seem to be maybe three or four cars there, including two Datapost cars...and some pics of a white one at a historic meeting a couple of years ago (NZ stuff starts around page 5)

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

As I mentioned OT in the Rover thread, there was at least 2 Escort RS1600's competing in the Wellington Group A race early in 1986.

One we have already identified as the blue/red John Jeffries Richard Belcher car but there is regular views of a plain white car with what appears to have a 'deeper' front bumper/splitter arrangement.

It may just be the colour scheme making it look different but to me that car looks like either the Rob Hall car or even Barry Lee car from the 1984 Trimoco BSCC?

Wonder if we can find out more about these anyone?

A quick look at the race result on http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...C%20Races.html

According to this there were 4 Escorts at Wellington in '86. Unfortunately, three of the four are listed with dirver & entrant unknown, #s 48, 64 and one race number unknown. The fourth is the #35 car of Phil Mhyre & Graham Lorimer, which finished 10th o/a, entered by Lakeland Ford.

Re-reading the RS Owners Club forum thread, if I've read it correctly one of the three unknown cars may be an ex-Datapost car, entered by Ace Ford Parts of Auckland for Clark/Mabee. Apparently it's the ex-Alan Curnow car, Alan raced it in NZ as well at some point, and was repainted yellow or beige.

I'm guessing another is the ex-Belcher John Jeffreys car- think this is an ex-Datapost chassis as well.

I'll have a look in my Bathurst annuals, which include some coverage of the NZ races and see if there are any pics etc

[KA]

Having had a read through the RS Owners Club forum thread and had a look at the Wellington coverage in the '86 Bathurst annual, I reckon the Wellington RS1600i entries were:

#35: Lakeland Ford (Phil Mhyre/Graeme Lorimer)- a blue car, pictured in the Bathurst book and described as a 'production car'- the Wellington grid seems to have been bolstered with cars to NZ Production regs
#48: Ace Ford Parts, (Clark/Mabee) ex-Alan Curnow Datapost car, resprayed yellow
#64- possibly the Andrew Bagnall/Motorsport Pacific car- the red/white/blue ex-Richard Belcher/John Jeffreys Engineering car- We seem to have established that this did Wellington, so I'm assuming it must have been #64
#84- Toms/Rattenbury- a red car- another ex-Longman/Datapost chassis?. Pictured in the Bathurst book and here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8021817...7606882601980/

I wonder if the mystery 'white' car on the video could be either the yellow (though I've also seen it described as beige...) Clark/Mabee car, or a local production entry not mentioned in the race result I've seen

[GBRM]

Bit of a basic question but what was the difference between a Group A and a Group N car? The Group A BTCC Duckhams (Karl Jones) car in '87 was apparently (don't quote me though!!) one of the two Ilford (Mike Smith) Group N cars from the '86 Uniroyal production saloons championship.
Would it have been easy to convert?

[KA]

Originally Posted by GBRM

Bit of a basic question but what was the difference between a Group A and a Group N car? The Group A BTCC Duckhams (Karl Jones) car in '87 was apparently (don't quote me though!!) one of the two Ilford (Mike Smith) Group N cars from the '86 Uniroyal production saloons championship.
Would it have been easy to convert?

Group N car is basically a production saloon- I'm no mechanic but it could presumably be upgraded to Group A, but depends on how you define 'easy'- you'd be looking at a different engine, gearbox and suspension at a guess

[KA]

Originally Posted by KA

I wonder if the mystery 'white' car on the video could be either the yellow (though I've also seen it described as beige...) Clark/Mabee car, or a local production entry not mentioned in the race result I've seen

I suspect this link might not work, but I'll try- Clark/Mabee #48 at Wellington '86.
http://bbs.rsownersclub.co.uk/attach...0&d=1122870517
The car looks more beige than yellow- maybe a very pale yellow?, though the current owner does describe it as 'beige'. If the link doesn't work, it carries race #48 and sponsorship from 'Lancia Knitwear' (I think) and 'South Auckland Motors'

The other pic shows the car in it's current state as of a couple of years ago- Apparently it was little-raced in NZ, and last used in the 1989 Nissan-Mobil series apparently, the graffiti-style signwriting is from it's last race outing.

[Racing RSi]

[QUOTE=KA]Having had a read through the RS Owners Club forum thread and had a look at the Wellington coverage in the '86 Bathurst annual, I reckon the Wellington RS1600i entries were:


#84- Toms/Rattenbury- a red car- another ex-Longman/Datapost chassis?. Pictured in the Bathurst book and here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8021817...7606882601980/

This '84' car has just returned back to the UK. VERY ORIGINAL.

[KA]

Brilliant news

I'm guessing (hoping!) from the user name you might have some connection with the car? If so, I'm sure we'd all like to hear more, especially if you could show us any pics of it in its' current state...

[Racing RSi]

Yes this is the 'Toms Rattenbury' Red Escort that has been in NZ since Christmas 1985, where it had finished in the BTCC with Alan Curnow driving in DATAPOST livery, No 66. Its the same car that campained along side Richard Longman's Series 1 RS Turbo (No44). After 3 years hunting for the car it came back into the UK July this year. I have returned the car back to Richard Longman and met Alan Curnow, who both confirmed its originality. I am the 4 owner, I met all three owners in NZ and have a comprehensive file of its history in NZ. The car came with its race log book and all its FIA papers. Obviously I will be returning it back to original BTCC spec.

(Having written all this.. I dont know how to add pictures ) so if any can help me or give me an email address I will gladly send some pictures so they can be added..

[Racing RSi]

worked it out

first picture is how it arrived back in the UK, other pictures are WIP (Work In Progress)

[rallycrosscraig]

thats looks superb what series are you going to race it in?

[davyboy]

Cosmetically the car looks in fantastic condition. Has it not been touched in all those years ?

[KA]

Originally Posted by Racing RSi

Yes this is the 'Toms Rattenbury' Red Escort that has been in NZ since Christmas 1985, where it had finished in the BTCC with Alan Curnow driving in DATAPOST livery, No 66. Its the same car that campained along side Richard Longman's Series 1 RS Turbo (No44). After 3 years hunting for the car it came back into the UK July this year. I have returned the car back to Richard Longman and met Alan Curnow, who both confirmed its originality. I am the 4 owner, I met all three owners in NZ and have a comprehensive file of its history in NZ. The car came with its race log book and all its FIA papers. Obviously I will be returning it back to original BTCC spec.

(Having written all this.. I dont know how to add pictures ) so if any can help me or give me an email address I will gladly send some pictures so they can be added..

As I remember, the RS Turbo wasn't homologated at the start of the '85 season, so Datapost ran a single RS1600i (presumably yours?) for Curnow for the first few BTCC rounds? He also shared the car with Longman at the Donington ETCC race.

Once the RS Turbo finally appeared I think they raced one of each in the BTCC, with Curnow joining Longman in the Turbo for the TT?

Although it broke fairly early in the race at the TT, the Datapost RS Turbo had a sensational run in qualifying, slaughtering the other Class 2 cars (over a second quicker than the fastest Alfa...) to start 9th on the grid, not only fastest in class, but ahead of all the 'big' class BMW635s, with only the TWR Rovers, the Volvos, Andy Rouse's pair of XR4Tis and the Brodie Starion ahead of it...

[KA]

Originally Posted by Racing RSi

worked it out

first picture is how it arrived back in the UK, other pictures are WIP (Work In Progress)

Now that's very nice- I like that a lot....

[Racing RSi]

[QUOTE=KA]the ', so Datapost ran a single RS1600i (presumably yours?) for Curnow for the first few BTCC rounds? He also shared the car with Longman at the Donington ETCC race.

that is very very intresting.. Could you tell me more please? it is the 85 BTCC car, and finished life in the UK with 66 on it and Alan Curnow on the roof.

The car I would say is 90% original, only one wing (front drivers side was replaced after a crash in the Nissan 500 86.) I have that original wing ;-) From the log book its done 17 race events in NZ. I have yet to establish exatly what it has done in the UK.. Hence my first question

I have long range tank in the spares. As for re racing it.. not in my ownership, but it will be full race spec, only major differance will be a new fire extinguisher system. I will be keeping the aluminium roll cage in situ.

[KA]

I should have a complete set of 1985 BTCC results at home, so can confirm the early-season results- I'll dig them out.

The Donington ETCC outing, the car ran as #90, and finished 21st overall/7th in class- I'd have to dig out the relevant issue of Autosport, but that suggests they'd had some kind of problem during the race, as they were 6 laps down on the class winner, and had qualified 3rd in class.

Both championships appeared at that meeting- BTCC raced in the morning and ETCC in the afternoon- a few BTCC teams (Frank Sytner's BMW, one of the Terry Drury Alfas, and Datapost) ran both races- but would have to look the result up to be sure of that.

ETCC entry list and race result:
http://www.racingsportscars.com/cove...985-05-05e.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...Donington.html

[KA]

...and thanks Graham for filling in another gap in the story that I think we'd missed- the Alan Gaunt/AJG Transport RS1600i that appeared occasionally for Mark Goddard in 1987/8 was the ex-Hodgetts Brooklyn #69 car:
http://www.rs1600i.net/content.php?view=brooklyn

[Jesper OH]

RS1600is used to win some class victories here in Denmark too. Holger Knudsen was the first, running his black car on occasion from 1986 to 1988. Like most years he never ran a full season with the car, but if he had he would have been a serious candidate for some kind of metal at the end of the year. Most competition was made up by group N Peugeot 205s and Toyota Corollas!
He did a few European TCC races though, but by then the Escort was no match for the Corollas.

Anders Kolstrup showed up for the final meeting of 1986 with an RS Turbo and would run the car in this configuration at select Scandinavian event during 1987. But for the Danish series he had a normally aspirated version, which he used to very good effect during the first half until technical problems screwed everything up during the second half.
Kolstrup was seen in group N in 1988 - in RS Turbo trim - perhaps with the same car, and even later he appeared in at least one entry list among group A cars.

I have never heard of any specific story of either car, so they could have been imports from either England or Germany, but also home grown cars.

Finally Swede Johnny Nilsson had an RS1600i from at least 1985 and finished a fine third in the Swedish series in 1987, as can be seen here: http://www.volvogrupp-a.se/sm87.asp.htm

Jesper

[Racing RSi]

Hello Jaspa,
I know there were a few RS1600i in Germany used in the Touring classes, mainly group A.. but where have they all gone now? We have three known Group A RS1600i's here in the UK, and from what we know there may have been 12 to 14 teams during the eairly to mid eighties running these cars.. Unfortunatly your link doesnt show the 16i you refure to, I would very much like to know more about it if possable.
In Germany there is a Group A RS1600i with a twin cam CVH!!

[Jesper OH]

No pictures, no, but Nilssons name is listet in third in points. Kolstrup in 15th I see now.

Jesper

[KA]

Originally Posted by Racing RSi

Hello Jaspa,
I know there were a few RS1600i in Germany used in the Touring classes, mainly group A.. but where have they all gone now? We have three known Group A RS1600i's here in the UK, and from what we know there may have been 12 to 14 teams during the eairly to mid eighties running these cars.. Unfortunatly your link doesnt show the 16i you refure to, I would very much like to know more about it if possable.
In Germany there is a Group A RS1600i with a twin cam CVH!!

Looking through the pics on Racingsportscars.com, I can find a few of the European RSis

Scuderia Calanda (Swiss- here at Brno in 83, Peter Ullmann/Edi Kamm)
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-06-12-079.jpg

Autosas Stilauto (here at Brno in 1983 & 84. Presumably Italian from the drivers)
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-06-12-068.jpg
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-06-10-077.jpg

Gerstmann Racing (Spa 1985- Jorg van Ommen, Annette Meeuvissen, Arno Wester- I know they were at both of the British rounds of the ETCC that season)
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-28-075.jpg

Auto Veri (seen here at Brno '83- Lilli Reisenbichler/Jurgen Hamelmann...)
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-06-12-081.jpg
....and Zolder '85- Gerd Ruch, Bodo Jahn- with the Gerstmann car in the background as a bonus!)
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-29-089.jpg

The Gerstmann and possibly 1985 the Auto Veri cars are the only ones I ever saw as I recall. I'll have a look through my few usable 1985 TT pics to see if I've got any more.

Wonder what happened to all of these- they'd all pretty much gone from the ETCC after 1985