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4 Jan 2022, 00:43 (Ref:4092404) | #51 | ||
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I’m sure it makes initial conversations, if they happen, will be easier. And always nice to deal with someone you know and trust.
In the end the deal will be done if it makes sense to both. |
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5 Jan 2022, 15:56 (Ref:4092583) | #52 | ||
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no doubt the technical partnerships/future fuels will be how they justify their decision to enter (if they enter) but i suspect ,cynically i suppose, that they have to enter because of F1's new found popularity on both social media platforms and through an abundance of shows and docs on the streaming services.
and when you combine lower costs with increasing online presence and reach, one wonders what is taking them so long to join up? |
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6 Jan 2022, 00:13 (Ref:4092627) | #53 | ||
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Porsche only ever go all in if they really believe can win. It's pretty much the same for Audi. VW as a brand is arguably not as hellbent on that.
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6 Jan 2022, 01:46 (Ref:4092638) | #54 | |
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They've had so many chances to enter F1 and build a top team. Even Toyota, the sensible family car and pickup brand, got there before they did again!
If Porsche are so confident of their engineering excellence -- an excellence (according to Porsche enthusiasts) that constantly outengineers lesser, inferior, sportscars from Ferrari, McLaren, Honda, Alpine, Alfa Romeo, or Mercedes, why not upon quitting LMP simply enter F1?! [Strangely, Porsche enthusiasts seem oddly quiet on how Alpine, Ferrari and even Honda sportscars have used double-wishbone suspension for over 30 years, yet the Porsche 911 or Cayman? Not so much!] |
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6 Jan 2022, 03:58 (Ref:4092648) | #55 | ||
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Good cars though Although I’d never consider a car without double-wishbone suspension. Imagine having to live with that.
I think a lot of the cost, benefit, history, customers, how the series have developed and are run, and other things are lost in that little Porsche bash. |
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6 Jan 2022, 08:54 (Ref:4092658) | #56 | ||
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Dunno why that seems strange to you. I have no idea what double wishbone suspension is or which cars have it and which don’t, but I nevertheless have nothing but awe for Porsche’s achievements in sportscar racing over the last 50 years. It’s baffling to me that they would have any interest in F1. Mind you I still think Ferrari made a mistake when the dropped sportscar racing to focus on F1.
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6 Jan 2022, 09:57 (Ref:4092666) | #57 | ||
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6 Jan 2022, 15:48 (Ref:4092691) | #58 | ||
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Quote:
You don't have to look far on the Porsche owner's forums to see Cayman owners' complain about the camber problems of their strut suspension. It's not ideal. Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 6 Jan 2022 at 16:13. |
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6 Jan 2022, 15:58 (Ref:4092694) | #59 | |||
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Quote:
It's just weird how Porsche engineers are so stubborn. They are so very German! Quote:
Strut (i.e., there is no upper control arm) is fine, it's used on most cheap economy cars, but it has serious geometry problems compared to the standard sportscar or racing car layout of unequal-length double wishbone. It's only through stubbornness that Porsche would use strut on 911 and Cayman, and finally relent and put a double wishbone front on the single 911 GT3 variant only after decades, while the Lotus and Ferrari sportscars have had it all along (though the 911 GT3 still has the engine in the wrong place due to stubbornness, and/or the Cayman GT4 is detuned to make sure it is slower despite having the engine in the proper place!). The Lotus Evora is typical of a standard sportscar: [An F1 car has the spring inboard, operated by a pushrod and a rocker.] Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 6 Jan 2022 at 16:07. |
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6 Jan 2022, 17:27 (Ref:4092706) | #60 | |||
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Thanks!
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6 Jan 2022, 19:21 (Ref:4092718) | #61 | |||
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When any company, including Porsche, look at entering the sport they will review what they put in v. what they get out. The choice of whole team v. engine supply (on a group basis?) will be considered. Maybe the engine gives you most of what you need for a fraction of the cost. So the engineering of the struts of a Cayman are a million miles away from this. And only of concern to a handful of people on Internet forums hence my comment of missing the important parts. If you want even better Porsche engineering on the internet discussion search for IMS bearings on catastrophic engine failures. Always fun - if you have the wrong one NEVER DRIVE YOUR CAR AGAIN! and other such comedyness. Or just look up advice on how to change the oil on a 911. As for building a car with the engine in the “right place”, all with the same suspension, etc... Let’s hope not. The automotive world has too much homogeneity to it already. Although ironically, of course, the homogeneity is there in F1. |
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19 Jan 2022, 08:32 (Ref:4094357) | #62 | ||
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According to Zak Brown, the likely destination is Red Bull under a Porsche name.
'The Volkswagen Group is considering whether to make an F1 entry but Brown rejected claims that McLaren had agreed a deal with the German giant. Instead, he said he believed VW's Porsche brand would enter F1 in partnership with Red Bull. "I'm hearing they are going to do something with Red Bull on the Porsche front," Brown said. He said McLaren had spoken to VAG about F1 but said the team were committed to engine supplier Mercedes until the end of the current power-unit regulations in 2025.' |
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19 Jan 2022, 09:45 (Ref:4094367) | #63 | |||
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19 Jan 2022, 17:19 (Ref:4094415) | #64 | ||
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i was hoping that they would bring their funding to an underfunded team and/or a buyout and enter as a full works team.
im simplifying of course, but rebadging and running a Honda engine feels a bit boring no? from a marketing and financial perspective its great of course. its odd though, one can see them wanting to join up for the new rules but wouldnt they be better off staying out of the sport until then and developing an engine outside of F1 rules? as a non participant, they are still invited to help shape the new rules, RB could still forward their agenda, and all the while they could rack up countless testing miles without any scrutiny. |
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19 Jan 2022, 18:10 (Ref:4094420) | #65 | ||
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if VAG enters F1, it will not happen until the 2025 season. I mean, they may announce they plan to participate at any moment, but they will not enter before then. If they do determine a partnership prior to then (likely) they might get involved in some sponsorship between now an then. But they are not going to run any rebadged engines as part of the current engine spec. All of the recent negotiations are around the 2025 engine specification. So they are ensuring they are happy with those new specifications so they can spend the time between now and then engineering to that new spec. Red Bull will run the frozen Honda engine until the end of the current engine spec (2024 season). Red Bull would currently be either planning a new engine partnership (such as one of the VAG brands) or gearing up to design their own. They will ideally want to get this settled ASAP because if they need to do it inhouse, they need to start on that now. Preferably they will want to have someone like VAG use Red Bull as their "works" team. I expect VAG will jump in initially as an engine supplier first. If there is an opportunistic option to purchase one or more teams (someone is cheap), they might do so if the price is right. But I suspect they would prefer to enter in a phased approach (engine supplier first, then if that goes well, then as a full team) It also continues to make sense to buy an existing team vs. start a new one from scratch. Richard |
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19 Jan 2022, 18:51 (Ref:4094427) | #66 | |||
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actually to be honest, still a bit unclear about when the new engines will be introduced/raced. have seen both 2025 and 2026. |
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19 Jan 2022, 20:01 (Ref:4094448) | #67 | |
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I'm amazed that their pioneering work with Honda hasn't put them off being pioneers with a new engine partner.Particularly one that did such a remarkable job with Footwork/Arrows.
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19 Jan 2022, 20:49 (Ref:4094453) | #68 | |||
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Their work with Honda worked out ok from memory. |
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19 Jan 2022, 22:29 (Ref:4094469) | #69 | ||
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The only other option would have been McLaren, they are using Merc gear now but I'm sure they have much higher hopes than a customer team.
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19 Jan 2022, 23:00 (Ref:4094478) | #70 | ||||
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Quote:
Quote:
Here is a very good article that talks about the relationship between Honda and Red Bull. https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...ren-fabrik-f1/ (Google translate from German to English) Quote:
Richard |
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20 Jan 2022, 03:50 (Ref:4094512) | #71 | |||
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Either way it is 2026. |
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20 Jan 2022, 09:28 (Ref:4094540) | #72 | |
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McLaren it seems are interested in going with Audi
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mc...ision/7413137/ |
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22 Jan 2022, 23:05 (Ref:4094926) | #73 | ||
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Or the current power units could simply be re-badged with another manufacturer name, now that RB is doing its own. Reasonable units already and then manufacturer expertise could be added once it shows to be an improvement.
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2 May 2022, 14:48 (Ref:4108667) | #74 | ||
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VAG CEO Confirms Porshce & Audi to F1 in 2026
I guess it's finally confirmed?
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2 May 2022, 15:02 (Ref:4108669) | #75 | ||
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Seems to be closer - "VW says that a final decision has not been made because the 2026 technical regulations have not been agreed upon"
https://the-race.com/formula-1/red-b...if-vw-commits/ |
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