Lance Stroll to Williams F1?

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

still not sure where they would get the tires from though.

Ferrari probably get bespoke Pirellis for their older cars. As for the Williams, if there are no 'correct' tyres for it then it's probably running around on Avons - they're used by a lot of the BOSS F1 cars and Historics.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

still not sure where they would get the tires from though.

It's worth bearing in mind that nowadays all the teams have to pay for their tyres, so I am certain that Pirelli would have no objection to selling any of the teams some of their excess 2014 stock. And as Bert says, there are plenty of other tyres around.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

I honestly believe there is more potential in Lance Stroll than in Jolyon Palmer. One is merely an F3 champion, the other is a GP2 champion.

If Stroll got more experience racing powerful cars, he would develop his potential before entering F1.

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

That's the entire point. If there was no correlation then wouldn't that make all junior formulae obsolete???

F3 is one step in a long development ladder meant.

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

some drivers (Damon Hill for example and Mark Blundell) never seemed to get on with F3 cars and did much better in big engined cars and many people would argue that for many years F3 cars were over gripped and under powered.

So you agree with me that there's no correlation between an F3 and an F1.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

If Stroll got more experience racing powerful cars, he would develop his potential before entering F1.

I pose you this question then. Does Sergio Canamasas deserve an F1 seat more than Max Verstappen?

[tux]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

I pose you this question then. Does Sergio Canamasas deserve an F1 seat more than Max Verstappen?

Only if he doesn't have to buy his seat, apparently.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

I pose you this question then. Does Sergio Canamasas deserve an F1 seat more than Max Verstappen?

Only if you subscribe to Bernie's theory of a pathway to milk all the possible money out of rich wannabees.

Otherwise I guess their F3 results speak for themselves.

To answer NaBUru38 question, I think there is a very good correlation between F3 results and F1 results. You may get the odd exception, but if you are exceptional in F3 you will be good in F1.
The larger classes have less of a correlation in my book, less talent depth as the spending war hots up I suspect.

Hill did not have a very good F3 drive and spent a lot of time gaining experience as a Willliams test driver, and Blundell was a journeyman at best.

Clark, Stewart, Fittipaldi, Piquet, Senna and Prost pretty much says it all.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

I'm just trying to clarify his position on the matter, it seems a little too rigid in my eyes to cater for mega talents, who are usually the most capable of missing a step in the ladder anyway...

[bella]

Originally Posted by wnut

Only if you subscribe to Bernie's theory of a pathway to milk all the possible money out of rich wannabees.

Otherwise I guess their F3 results speak for themselves.

if we're going to get this detailed, don't you also have to look at exactly what the series between f3 and f1 are trying to teach drivers?

the obvious one is tyre management. but apart from that?

working in a big team? f3 teams bring more staff to races than gp2 nowadays, especially the massive ones. complex cars? so many variables on f3 cars, it's a big step up from f4 and f renault... although there's not as many as there used to be.

what else is there?

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by bella

if we're going to get this detailed, don't you also have to look at exactly what the series between f3 and f1 are trying to teach drivers?

the obvious one is tyre management. but apart from that?

working in a big team? f3 teams bring more staff to races than gp2 nowadays, especially the massive ones. complex cars? so many variables on f3 cars, it's a big step up from f4 and f renault... although there's not as many as there used to be.

what else is there?

Pitstops and strategy on the higher forumulae - you would expect racecraft would come into it somewhere!

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bella

if we're going to get this detailed, don't you also have to look at exactly what the series between f3 and f1 are trying to teach drivers?

the obvious one is tyre management. but apart from that?

working in a big team? f3 teams bring more staff to races than gp2 nowadays, especially the massive ones. complex cars? so many variables on f3 cars, it's a big step up from f4 and f renault... although there's not as many as there used to be.

what else is there?

I don't know if you agree Bella, but F3 actually teaches drivers tyre management by default, the drivers are required to balance and maintain forward momentum because there is no power to fudge mistakes and overdriving the car. This is exactly the same skill set that is required to manage tyres. The car setup is the same, if not more critical than that required in the higher formulae.

The F3 field I believe has more talent in it than the other formulae below F1; certainly going through it; and it is here that talent should be developed. If we compress all the talent into F3 it will be an even better category and will provide the driver comparisons necessary for F1, it will also allow the talented youngsters to shine against the pay brigade, but I guess that is not what is desired in the motor racing hierarchy.

Compressing the junior talent into F3 should also reduce the costs to an individual driver and improve the racing from a spectator point of view.

This create an exotic formula with three entrants and become a chumpion just doesn't work for motor racing.

[bella]

heh, stalking you across tenths tonight.

i don't 100% agree with you about f3 teaching tyre management. when we talk about that nowadays i suppose we're talking about the specific driver behaviours that the pirelli f1 tyres require to make them last. you can say that formula renault teaches a driver tyre management - the tyres do run out of grip towards the end of races if they're driven carelessly, and a driver has to learn to time his attacks and defences according to that. i'd argue they learn the "you can't cane it to save it" discipline there too, to a smaller degree, mostly because the cars haven't really got much power at all to save them *with* the specific behaviour the f1 pirelli tyres need is really only a gp3 and gp2 lesson, more the latter than the former. but then i suppose you can argue that having learnt the basics in the lower series, they then have to learn how to implement it in gp2.

i mean, if you look at f3 testing, they're limited to a couple of hundred km a day, and even then use between 2 and 3 new sets of tyres per car. during the macau tests they were using less for obvious reasons. in all honesty it's no different to formula renault, especially if the driver is learning qualifying strategy.

the f3 grid is usually a pretty talent rich place, but there's so much talent that can't afford f3 budgets. even those offered a cheap budget on a rich drivers coat tails struggle to find that, it's still more than they paid for formula renault in most cases, and definitely more if they were on a cheap deal in that. the talented drivers were up against it this season, and ultimately the fears about not standing a chance if you weren't in a prema car were correct. it's never been a place for running a team on a tight budget, and if they want to keep it relatively honest to the concept then it's never going to be either. for example, where is the next mazepin and laliberte? without that kind of bankrolling at more than one team there's not going to be much of an opposition.

[wnut]

I take your point on Pirelli tyre management, however once you have overdriven the tyre you are done because the plastics they put in them melt and the tyre does not come back. Again pretty much the skill you need in F3.
On an aside the Pirellis are a nasty gimmick that has no place in racing but that is actually a separate issue.

The F3 regs need cleaning up and possibly "claimer" bits at fixed prices to stop people grossly overspending. Also limit the telemetry and the staff that are allowed at the circuits with the cars.

Anyway, I guess the real point here is that if you are good enough in F3 you are absolutely ready for F1, and you don't necessarily have to have won the championship either, if someone like Herr Marko is happy that you should be in F1 you should absolutely be in F1!

If you can't afford a decent season in F3 you are unlikely to be able to afford multiple seasons in all sorts of make up formulae for getting a superlicence, most of these championships are probably more an engineering competence stamp than a statement of driver brilliance.

[wnut]

Here we go again, another Formula - Formula Thunder 5000

http://www.ourguide.com.au/tv_guide....d=11112016&t=3

Sounds like fun, but just splits everything up more.

They do look beautiful

http://www.motorsport.com/openwheel/...ivered-811430/

[wnut]

This could work.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by wnut

This could work.

Really? That looks awful. It looks like it been built from a spare parts bin that contains bits from the last 40 years. And they've used all the bad bits.

[peebee2]

It is absolutely horrendous and has about as much chance of making it as any if the other Formula Dreamers out there. Somebody has wasted a packet building the one that exusts

[bella]

umm... it'll make someone a nice hillclimb car?

[S griffin]

The wings don't go with Airbox

[Matt]

FT5000 cars are amazing.

I saw Stroll bin a DP on his outlap at this years Rolex. It was magical.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by S griffin

The wings don't go with Airbox

From a racing point of view, the small wings would be a good idea, as the car is more mechanical grip dependent than aero dependent.
The cars may actually be able to race one another!
May also work well in Australia, and the gearbox is made by the Australian company Hollinger, the engines are readily available V8s, hopefully it would be relatively cheap too with not to many people adding extortionate commissions in the supply chain.
The thunder of a full F5000 field, big hairy and dangerous would also carry tremendous appeal.

The problem is another open wheel formula diluting the pool.

[GTRMagic]

www.hasstrollcrashedyet.com

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

www.hasstrollcrashedyet.com

Harsh but true However how many shuts did Hamilton have prior to race 1? Just saying

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Harsh but true However how many shuts did Hamilton have prior to race 1? Just saying

Harsh nothing!!! 'Just plain childish.
I know of none of the best that haven't been off before or after making the big time. Sounds like silly bias to me. If one doesn't exceed the limit on occasion, one doesn't know where it is.

[Matt]

$tro££ has made a habit of exceeding the limit.

It's kinda his MO.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by jimclark

Harsh nothing!!! 'Just plain childish.
I know of none of the best that haven't been off before or after making the big time. Sounds like silly bias to me. If one doesn't exceed the limit on occasion, one doesn't know where it is.

I agree I saw Gillespie Villenurve on his F1 debut in a McLaren at Silverstone Spun at just about every corner - once - and was then sorted