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2 Sep 2008, 20:52 (Ref:2280407) | #51 | |||
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2 Sep 2008, 21:06 (Ref:2280417) | #52 | ||
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2 Sep 2008, 21:11 (Ref:2280421) | #53 | |||
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Exactly which relation has F1 with BMW´s roadcars..? Zeeeeroooo But the marketing works, as a carryover effect. |
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Le Mans Christian Bakkerud, Team Kolles Formula Renault 2.0 NEC Mikkel Mac DTC Martin Marrill, M-Sport |
2 Sep 2008, 21:12 (Ref:2280422) | #54 | ||
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2 Sep 2008, 23:29 (Ref:2280503) | #55 | ||
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3 Sep 2008, 00:00 (Ref:2280517) | #56 | |||
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I think it's interesting to take a look at the manufacturers in Stockcar Brazil: Chevrolet, Peugeot and Mitsubishi. None of those are premium companies like Audi or Merc. These are companies that don't have - at least for the Brazilian market - to prove their technical prowess and are allowed by the SCB-ruleset to take the technical aspects out of racing and turn the cars in fact into nothing more than motorized billboards for their product. |
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3 Sep 2008, 07:45 (Ref:2280619) | #57 | |||
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[quote=Aslak VindIt may be right on the strictly technical side, but the public sees an Audi A4 win at Brands Hatch. And as long as the marketing and imagerelated part of DTM works for them, it is an investment worth while.. Both for Audi and could be for BMW. [/quote]
You don't have to explain the marketing side to me, I know how it works BMW though doesn't like DTM because the cars aren't similar enough to the cars they're supposed to promote. Quote:
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3 Sep 2008, 22:59 (Ref:2281239) | #58 | |||||||
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Göteborg Cityrace in STCC this year was fully environmentally compensated. The compensations was 8% for the racecars/teams/etc and 92% for the visiting crowds. Also included in the ticket price was free local transportations (buses/trams/etc), so no need to take the car to the track. Quote:
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http://autospider.blogspot.com/2007/...xr-flower.html Quote:
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Last edited by stedevil; 3 Sep 2008 at 23:03. |
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3 Sep 2008, 23:13 (Ref:2281249) | #59 | ||||
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My cynicism tells me, though, that if Denmark indeed drops S2000 only very few teams will cross over to STCC and the V8-championship will be flop with weak grids. I really hope, though, that the V8-championship gets off the ground, as some day S2000 will indeed have run its course - maybe the writings already on the wall, maybe they can still turn it around to get another few years out of that ruleset- and then it'll be good to already have some proven alternatives. Last edited by Speed-King; 3 Sep 2008 at 23:19. |
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3 Sep 2008, 23:18 (Ref:2281252) | #60 | ||
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3 Sep 2008, 23:43 (Ref:2281271) | #61 | |||
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1) Make all cars RWD 2) Make the cars super-leightweight, so they don't need absurdly high amounts of power to achieve a nice power/weight ratio. Both solutions may be more feasible with (semi-)tubeframe cars. If I remember correctly most of the 2l-Gr.5 cars from the late 70s weighted significantly below 800kg. 3) Give the cars ridiculously little aero-parts, to reduce grip. If it was up to me, I'd ban all winged profiles and rather see spoilers like in pre-COT-NASCAR in touring car racing. I'd partially make up for it with some extra wide tires (and wheelarches!) however Last edited by Speed-King; 3 Sep 2008 at 23:45. |
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3 Sep 2008, 23:48 (Ref:2281274) | #62 | ||||
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4 Sep 2008, 00:01 (Ref:2281280) | #63 | ||||
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Or are you suggesting wider tires should be allowed for FWD cars relative RWD cars? |
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4 Sep 2008, 00:19 (Ref:2281286) | #64 | ||||
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The problem with "real cars" is that these cars are severly compromised, when it comes to their adoptability for racing, as they are built with everyday-useability in mind, with racing only being an afterthought. This is absolutely understandable and okay for me, after all, who would want to buy a severly compromised roadcar, just because it is a good racecar in the hands of an Andy Priaulx? And in a way, this is the very nature of touring car racing, i.e. a contest to decide which roadcar is the fastest, but on the other hand, this increases the developement costs for competitive "real" racing cars significantly. Especially with the very restrictive rulesets that we have in most series today. And if people don't care - is it really worth it? "Real Cars- Real Racing" is a nice slogan, but is it really feasible in todays racing world? Quote:
Maybe a setup like that would work. Last edited by Speed-King; 4 Sep 2008 at 00:22. |
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4 Sep 2008, 03:26 (Ref:2281340) | #65 | |||
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I just re-read what I wrote in the post above, I left a few bits out and somehow it sounds a bit harsher than I wanted it to sound initially.
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I still think that S2000 is head and shoulders above the current DTM, as the grids are decent and the racing is mostly good and at times great, but somehow I begin to get bored with the neverending weight-discussions, the (relative) lack of variety and the rather unimaginative cars. That's why I'd really like to see a series for spectacular, yet simple tubeframe cars with the great racing we see in WTCC, but without the the endless politics. I've recently watched some Trans/Am races from the 80s on youtube, and I think this really was touring car racing at its best. Spectacular and powerful cars, a wide variety of makes and models, huge fields and great racing. |
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11 Sep 2008, 23:05 (Ref:2287605) | #66 | |
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I was a huge touring car fan in the 80's and 90's, but despair at the state it's in today.
S2000 cars are a disaster, they look and sound awful, are unspectaclar and too slow. DTM cars don't even resemble road going supercars, nevermind mid to high end saloons. Is it really so difficult to come up with a cost effective but spectacular touring car formula. Cars must closely resemble the road car model, with WRC like modifications to wheel arches and aero. Allow FWD and RWD with 320bhp+ 2l turbo engines. Super Touring cars were putting out 320bhp+ in the later years while 2l kitcars such as the Citroen Xsara and Peugeot 306 Maxi put out even more, AND were competive on rough tarmac roads, even in damp conditions, with 4wd WRC cars. DTM '88-'92 is what touring cars should be like. |
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12 Sep 2008, 01:45 (Ref:2287673) | #67 | |||
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This would be the future.. Howwever, the STW pumped out +400 at 11.000 o/min |
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12 Sep 2008, 08:17 (Ref:2287835) | #68 | |||
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12 Sep 2008, 11:06 (Ref:2287954) | #69 | |||
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12 Sep 2008, 11:23 (Ref:2287963) | #70 | |||
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12 Sep 2008, 11:35 (Ref:2287973) | #71 | ||
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For an example look at this youtube-film If you go to a bit over 4 min. there are short interviews with Colin McRae and David Richardsof Subaru.
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13 Sep 2008, 02:08 (Ref:2288583) | #72 | ||
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"DTM '88-'92 is what touring cars should be like."
how true how true http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-R665bquMg how many races are this good? |
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13 Sep 2008, 02:09 (Ref:2288585) | #73 | ||
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"DTM '88-'92 is what touring cars should be like."
how true how true http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-R665bquMg how many races are this good? |
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SuperTrucks rule- end of story. Listen to my ramblings! Follow my twitter @davidAET I am shameless ... |
13 Sep 2008, 02:09 (Ref:2288586) | #74 | ||
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"DTM '88-'92 is what touring cars should be like."
how true how true http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-R665bquMg how many races are this good? and not just in the wet- so what was wrong with this formula? |
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SuperTrucks rule- end of story. Listen to my ramblings! Follow my twitter @davidAET I am shameless ... |
16 Sep 2008, 22:46 (Ref:2292151) | #75 | ||
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Any updates on the future of the DTC??
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