[Team] Scuderia Alpha Tauri

[steve_r]

Alpha Tauri have lost their way. Not only is the car one of the worse on the grid, but if it is a feeder team for the main team, then they started the season with 2 drivers who were never going to be good enough to make the step up.

I do feel that having given him the seat that they should have stuck with De Vries for the season. He has not been great, but the car is clearly poor. His teammate is struggling too. And although he is not really young, any new driver needs time to settle in.

Talking about a team that has lost their way, they are now employing a driver who has lost his way. Perhaps it will be a good match and Ricciardo will get his mojo back. I think a lot of fans will be pleased to have a driver with real character back on the grid.

All this happening at the same time that Perez has suddenly become quite error prone in qualifying.

[Tourer]

As a fellow Oz it is good to see Dan Ric back on the grid, but I do wonder if it is a poisoned chalice to some extent, as the car hasn't looked particularly good so far this year. Maybe those on the inside know something that we don't?

I suspect that the decision on parting ways with NDV was made earlier, with Red Bull waiting to see how DR went in the car at Silverstone on Tuesday (rather than just the sim up till now). Clearly they think he has his mojo at least close to fully back.

Like others, feel that the "second Dutchman" should have been given more time but F1 is a harsh reality sometimes. He's a bloody capable driver and hopefully he can find something suitable to remind what he can do.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Alpha Tauri have lost their way. Not only is the car one of the worse on the grid, but if it is a feeder team for the main team, then they started the season with 2 drivers who were never going to be good enough to make the step up.

I do feel that having given him the seat that they should have stuck with De Vries for the season. He has not been great, but the car is clearly poor. His teammate is struggling too. And although he is not really young, any new driver needs time to settle in.

Talking about a team that has lost their way, they are now employing a driver who has lost his way. Perhaps it will be a good match and Ricciardo will get his mojo back. I think a lot of fans will be pleased to have a driver with real character back on the grid.

All this happening at the same time that Perez has suddenly become quite error prone in qualifying.

I think the jury is still out regarding Yuki. The car is crap, but he has shown speed. The question is if he can settle down and how he might do in a better car. The team seems to see something positive in him.

I do agree that new drivers need some time, but I suspect they have just decided de Vries just isn't going to make it in F1, or at least within the timeframe that Red Bull is wanting. As to not giving him to end of season, frankly I think it's a bit of an experiment to see if Ricciardo still has it. AT (and it's RB masters) rightly feel that this season is done for AT so they have little to lose. They are trying to resolve questions regarding driver pecking order during remainder of this season. This will give them data when they make decisions going into 2024.

Richard

[bathurst77]

Firstly as an Aussie and Dan fan Im stoked to see him back on the grid. Two aussies. Not since 2012 (I think).

End of last year people were saying that Dan was badly done by and shafted to lose his seat. Now people are saying NDV has been shafted to put Danny in. But thats f1, if youre good (or rich) enough, you get a go. If you dont perform, youre gone. THere are no participation trophies. The drivers know and accept they are only as good as their last race and could be on the dole next week

F1 is about the worlds best drivers in the worlds fastest cars. Each race costs the team millions, If a car has some fault or problem slowing it down, the team will move hell to replace that part. And if that part is the nut that holds the wheel....

I think the move to put Dan into the AT is about more than just getting rid of NDV.
ATs traditional role is to uncover and develop future stars, and Danny is obviously not that.

I think the move is has multiple reasons

1 Get Danny in a car, GEt him back to match fitness and see if he can cut it stil in the pressure of a race weekend. In the AT he wont be expected to win races or podiums. So it eases him back in without the demands

2 Put the frighteners on Checo. If Dan can do a "George @ Williams" and out perform the car while Checo keep being the most unreliable part of his car, he will know he will be driving a Tijuana Taxi next year. Time to knuckle down lad

3 Putting dan in the car instead of one of their juniors would help AT. By putting a highly experienced top flight driver in, he should be able to give educated feedback on how the car behaves on the track and hopefully find areas that need the most attention

Most important reason tho is to make Bathurst77 smile every race weekend!

[Skam85]

Yuki is on a hiding to nothing for this, it's a lose/lose.

If Ricciardo beats him, that is Yuki's long term chances shot.
If he beats Ricciardo, then that can just be put down to confirming Ricciardo is past it, look at his McLaren results etc.

The only way Yuki comes out of this looking good is if he absolutely smashes DannY Ricc.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Yuki is on a hiding to nothing for this, it's a lose/lose.

If Ricciardo beats him, that is Yuki's long term chances shot.
If he beats Ricciardo, then that can just be put down to confirming Ricciardo is past it, look at his McLaren results etc.

The only way Yuki comes out of this looking good is if he absolutely smashes DannY Ricc.

So that’s both drivers with half a year to save their F1 career in a bad car with one of them following DeVries at the end of the year?What could possibly go wrong?

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Firstly as an Aussie and Dan fan Im stoked to see him back on the grid. Two aussies. Not since 2012 (I think).

End of last year people were saying that Dan was badly done by and shafted to lose his seat. Now people are saying NDV has been shafted to put Danny in. But thats f1, if youre good (or rich) enough, you get a go. If you dont perform, youre gone. THere are no participation trophies. The drivers know and accept they are only as good as their last race and could be on the dole next week

F1 is about the worlds best drivers in the worlds fastest cars. Each race costs the team millions, If a car has some fault or problem slowing it down, the team will move hell to replace that part. And if that part is the nut that holds the wheel....

I think the move to put Dan into the AT is about more than just getting rid of NDV.
ATs traditional role is to uncover and develop future stars, and Danny is obviously not that.

I think the move is has multiple reasons

1 Get Danny in a car, GEt him back to match fitness and see if he can cut it stil in the pressure of a race weekend. In the AT he wont be expected to win races or podiums. So it eases him back in without the demands

2 Put the frighteners on Checo. If Dan can do a "George @ Williams" and out perform the car while Checo keep being the most unreliable part of his car, he will know he will be driving a Tijuana Taxi next year. Time to knuckle down lad

3 Putting dan in the car instead of one of their juniors would help AT. By putting a highly experienced top flight driver in, he should be able to give educated feedback on how the car behaves on the track and hopefully find areas that need the most attention

Most important reason tho is to make Bathurst77 smile every race weekend!

From another fellow Aussie or West Aussie in my case.

TOTALLY AGREE.

Get some Laps under his belt and push like hell for a future at RBR or
for a 2024 season with the new AT RBB

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Alan52

So that’s both drivers with half a year to save their F1 career in a bad car with one of them following DeVries at the end of the year?What could possibly go wrong?

From Red Bull's point of view, nothing. They are trying to find the best possible drivers after all. If both Tsunoda and Ricciardo are "no good", then Iwasa/Palou and Lawson will likely line up in the new-name-Alpha-Tauris at the Bahrain GP 2024.

Originally Posted by chillibowl

one would think they are not worried about that otherwise they would not have re hired him as their 3rd driver this season and now placed him in an AT seat.

Which is it! Is Ricciardo too good or not good enough? It can't be both.

[S griffin]

de Vries hasn't looked convincing this year, but he hasn't just suddenly lost his talent. There is no doubt other factors as to why he's been underwhelming this year, although I would rather not speculate what they are. His debut in Monza last year shows he deserves another chance, but whether he's going to get it is another story

It's good to have Danny back, I just hope he rediscovers his old form. However I wouldn't want to be Yuki right now

[VIVA GT]

Sadly, I don't think that although AT is 'supposed to be' a nurturing environment for young talent, they don't seem to have the relevant levels of patience if the young superstars aren't lightening fast straight out of the box. Plus, it would appear that this year the car hasn't been particularly user-friendly meaning that (relatively) inexperienced drivers are unable to help with the feedback.
Maybe from next year, when they are running something more similar to the RB car, the development advice will trickle down to AT and create something more user friendly. Hopefully this will prevent the future career of young drivers being thrown into the dustbin so easily...

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

But thats f1, if youre good (or rich) enough, you get a go. If you dont perform, youre gone. THere are no participation trophies. The drivers know and accept they are only as good as their last race and could be on the dole next week

So what is it about Ricciardo that got him the nod over De Vries? He's been less than impressive since leaving Red Bull so is it just a hopeful punt that he'll be ok now he's back in the Red Bull family or is it something they've seen in the simulator?

Originally Posted by bathurst77

1 Get Danny in a car, GEt him back to match fitness and see if he can cut it stil in the pressure of a race weekend. In the AT he wont be expected to win races or podiums. So it eases him back in without the demands

Effectively this means that they've written off the rest of the season for Alpha Tauri so they can see if Ricciardo is a dud. I'd have thought the demand would be "bury Tsunoda" - if Ricciardo can't do that then surely he's done?

Originally Posted by bathurst77

2 Put the frighteners on Checo. If Dan can do a "George @ Williams" and out perform the car while Checo keep being the most unreliable part of his car, he will know he will be driving a Tijuana Taxi next year. Time to knuckle down lad

This only works if Ricciardo blows Tsunoda into the weeds. If Ricciardo flops then that takes the pressure off Perez. To some extent it already has - there were suggestions Perez might get the boot before the end of the season, with Ricciardo going to AT that takes that prospect away surely?

Originally Posted by bathurst77

3 Putting dan in the car instead of one of their juniors would help AT. By putting a highly experienced top flight driver in, he should be able to give educated feedback on how the car behaves on the track and hopefully find areas that need the most attention

It's not like De Vries isn't an experienced driver though (not F1 but he's not a youngster like some of the other rookie drivers). Ricciardo seemingly couldn't help McLaren or Renault much with the development direction so maybe that's not a factor?

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Most important reason tho is to make Bathurst77 smile every race weekend!

Interviews with Ricciardo are always good value, in that respect it's good to have him back in the paddock. It certainly adds another element of intrigue to the season having him back.

[GingerPixel]

I would be surpised if Yuki is quaking in his boots. It's not like they're bringing Fangio in. Danny is obviously a lovely bloke, and I hope that he is successful but I think him having a bit of personality has driven him much further than a similarly abled Scandinavian android would have gotten.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by GingerPixel

I would be surpised if Yuki is quaking in his boots. It's not like they're bringing Fangio in. Danny is obviously a lovely bloke, and I hope that he is successful but I think him having a bit of personality has driven him much further than a similarly abled Scandinavian android would have gotten.

Of course winning more races than most of the drivers currently on the grid will in their careers can't hurt either.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Which is it! Is Ricciardo too good or not good enough? It can't be both.

haha well played sir!

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by chavez

Of course winning more races than most of the drivers currently on the grid will in their careers can't hurt either.

Whilst not minimising his achievement, his CV in recent years has been less impressive.....

[GreenMachine]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Effectively this means that they've written off the rest of the season for Alpha Tauri so they can see if Ricciardo is a dud. I'd have thought the demand would be "bury Tsunoda" - if Ricciardo can't do that then surely he's done?

Yes to both.

People under-rate his time at Renault, where he did quite well in fact. Seems like he still has car speed, the only thing left to prove is doing it in the hot seat. Can he beat an almost-rated Yuki, preferably blow him away, has he still got the ability to perform in the pressure cooker of quali, has he still got racecraft and the fire in the belly to beat whoever is in front of him?

If he fires, not only will it boost AT's points position, it will set up a succession in the RB environment.

If he doesn't, it will be all over for the Honey Badger, so long and thanks for the memories.

My money is on him firing, but right now we can't say that is a sure thing.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by S griffin

de Vries hasn't looked convincing this year, but he hasn't just suddenly lost his talent. There is no doubt other factors as to why he's been underwhelming this year, although I would rather not speculate what they are. His debut in Monza last year shows he deserves another chance, but whether he's going to get it is another story

If De Vries is an F1 ace, some other team will sign him.

Many like Horner already rated "his talent" lowly due to only beating Latifi for the F2 title in his third year and winning a relatively lottery Formula E season, then being outpaced easily by Vandoorne the next season.

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Sadly, I don't think that although AT is 'supposed to be' a nurturing environment for young talent, they don't seem to have the relevant levels of patience if the young superstars aren't lightening fast straight out of the box.

De Vries is not young, he's 3 years older than Verstappen. I'm inclined to think De Vries would be a solid WEC driver but is not fast enough for F1 (refer Brendon Hartley, Anthony Davidson etc).

[Skam85]

DEV was hot property after Monza after his great drive there, but that looks to have been a one-off fluke.

He seems to be a nice guy and good on him for winning plenty of titles in other series, but a few things factored against him succeeding sadly.

His age (28), the pre-season comments about him not being a rookie in the true sense of the word, and of course the Alpha Tauri being a steaming pile of caca. He'll look back in a few years I'm sure and be thankful he got a shot and will always have the Monza memories as a fond one, but F1 is a brutal sport and he never really got close to Yuki who is still largely unproven.

[HDTVKSS]

I dont think its that complicated.

DEV didnt perform - they know where Tsonda sits compared to GAS, and they now know where GAS sits in regards to Ocon and DEV came up well short.

Meanwhile, RIC has been in both simulators and they have a comparison of him to VER / PER as well as the AT drivers. I'd say this is is an educated decision based on a lot of data and resources. its not like RIC can do any worse.

Theres also the question of useful input - its hard to drive a car forward if the feedback is shite, and its hard to get good feedback from someone whos head is struggling to stay above water. somewhat ironically, the same scenario probably didn't help RIC at McLaren.

As for PER being relieved by this, is he really? if RIC comes in and smashes it whos to say they don't jump RIC into the RB before the end of the season.

Theres a lot of water to flow under the bridge however if this ends up landing RIC back in an RBR seat then he played a master stroke from what looked like a career ender, and certainly put himself in a position he wouldn't have found himself in if he'd gone to Williams or Haas.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

one would think they are not worried about that otherwise they would not have re hired him as their 3rd driver this season and now placed him in an AT seat.

RIC is not their 3rd driver. Lawson is.
He only has two conflicts in the Super formula season. One was Imola, the other is Mexico.
RIC is simulator, PR figure and advertising/relationship/business building, but not the official third driver, so dropping him in at Alpha Tauri is a good opportunity to give him some seat time and for them to see just how bad the AT really is, and to see how he rates against Tsunoda, or better still how Tsunoda stacks up against Daniel.

RIC has had time in the simulator and did the test after GB sand Horner said his pace was good, that he was 'back' so to speak.

This indicates some confidence in his opinion and feedback.
It is tough on De Vries but I always felt his move to AT was a mistake on his part. He would have been better off to slot in at Williams. That means he'd probably be chasing Albon but Sargeant would have missed out on his ride.

Perez has been said to have the team's confidence and has another year to go on his contract and I think he is likely to see it out.

His form was really good until the media were hyping him up as a title challenger, something that was a leap too far given the teams preferential treatment of Max, but I don't believe that all of the incidents around his failures in Q1 are of his making.

Something else is going on. The rest of the season will be interesting.
Following RIC in his exploits at AT will give some people plenty to write about.

[gravin]

Firstly, I had previously posted elsewhere that DR to AT should happen.

The whole thing makes no sense though - It could easily be DR's boot out the door with no say whatsoever. It is not the car he said he wanted to return in (a top team). He is now under massive pressure to perform, from the outset IMHO, as Mako has no patience at all, which is in opposition to DR taking a year out to rebuild. ??

The move does suggest a push to get AT back in the points more regularly and on a performance level where young talent could overperform and cause upsets as happened in the past. But that means DR is going in with the responsibility to develop the AT.

Wouldn't want to be DR then - my feeling is he is expected to absolutely paste Yuki and drag the car up the grid ASAP.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by chavez

Of course winning more races than most of the drivers currently on the grid will in their careers can't hurt either.

Exactly.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Whilst not minimising his achievement, his CV in recent years has been less impressive.....

Neither have the race cars he has been in, both less than impressive.

Supposedly his times in the test the other day would have been compatible to a front row start, but its easy to say that.

Time will tell if he gets a competitive car.

[Richard C]

Interesting perspective....

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/w...ardo/10495367/

Imagine the pressure DR will be under. I guess he may get one or two races from Red Bull to get his feet under him. But even then, absolutely poor performances in those would not be good for his situation not to mention his own confidence.

Richard

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

RIC is not their 3rd driver. Lawson is.
He only has two conflicts in the Super formula season. One was Imola, the other is Mexico.
RIC is simulator, PR figure and advertising/relationship/business building, but not the official third driver...

while the RB team web site does list him as their 3rd driver which i would think makes him their official 3rd driver, i must admit i dont know what his official duties with the team are. being a 3rd driver is not necessarily the same anymore as it once used to be? it could just be a title for the sake of seniority or some such reason?

https://www.redbullracing.com/int-en...o-third-driver

that said, i would have to think, that had Perez been too sick to race the other day they would have placed Ric in the car as a replacement over Lawson?