Max Mosley's plans for F1/2008 rules (merged).....

[Hugh Jarce]

Too many restrictions and the 'big lads' will eventually walk - I'm flippin sure of it - then Max will be left with a 'sooped up' F3000 - which will be great and no-one will want to sponsor it or screen it on TV.

[Kicking-back]

Even if manufacturers like BMW and Mercedes quit, Frank and Ron would ensure Williams and McLaren continued. F1s most competitive times came without the manufacturer dominance of today, and it can thrive without them again.

[jj2728]

a ferrari would not be a ferrari without either the v-10 or v-12.....last time they ran a v-8 was 1965.....

[esorniloc]

Originally posted by jj2728
a ferrari would not be a ferrari without either the v-10 or v-12.....last time they ran a v-8 was 1965.....

They ran a V6 in the Turbo years (1981 - 1988).

[Adam43]

and the shark nose was a V6.
Still a V12 is linked to Ferrari in F1. Mainly I guess from the days it was them verses the DFV. I'm not sure that a V10 is Ferrari related.

[alfasud]

Generally in favour of the proposals.

We need a control tyre before 2008, but possibly there are tyre supply contracts that would prevent this being implemented sooner.

Not really in favour of standised brakes - would prefer to see limitations in disk rotor size/material, number of caliper pistons etc.

No sure about standard ECU's either... possibly if it's the only way to enforce the no traction control..... but I'd like to see this controlled in another way if possible.

Agree with the reduced weight - remember the old engines were very heavy - the Cosworth DFV at 168kg, the Honda RA122E V12 (1992) 150kg, the Renault RS08 V10 (1996) 132kg, but today we have the latest BMW V10 at less than 90kg, so we can expect to see 70-75kg V8's. If the weight limit stays the same they will be carrying a very large ballast - they already are, but it will be even more.

Power steering wasn't needed a few years back... and isn't used in lower formula. It's just another thing the teams spend money on, with no benifit to fans.... or the teams once every team has it.

Would prefer to see V12's and/or 5 valves per cylinder allowed, but F1 had many good years with a field of mainly 3.0L, 4valve V8's, so I imagine it can have many more good years with higher reving, more powerfull 2.4L, 4valve V8's.

As for the Ferrari.... as Adam says, the V10 is nothing to do with Ferrari, who have used V12, 4, V6, V8 and now V10 over the years. Many would say the V12 (or flat-12) is the only proper Ferrari engine, so V10 or V8 doesn't matter.

Will miss V12's, but have missed them for many years already.

[jj2728]

yeah i knew ferrari raced the v-6 turbo and that the 61/62 car was also a v-6....i think they also had a flat 12 1.5 liter in 64 or 65...but please don't make them race a v-8......a true ferrari is a 12 cylinder, but i'll still settle for the v-10 ...

[Adam43]

fair enough!

The need a single tyre. I'm surprised that this is so popular. Is it because it is conceived as a way to remove a Ferrari advantage?

[alfasud]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
The need a single tyre. I'm surprised that this is so popular. Is it because it is conceived as a way to remove a Ferrari advantage?

I'm not sure about others, but I've supported Ferrari over the years, so that's not the reason. But I think a control/spec tyre would have the following advantages....

1) big teams (like Ferrari) couldn't arrange an exclusive deal. Naturally the tyre supplier would tend to test more with the bigger teams, but the smaller teams would be less disadvantaged. All teams would have to design the car for the spec tyre, rather than have a tyre supplier build the tyre to work best with the car of one team,
2) we will not risk having a championship decided by a European summer heat wave, or a ruling (and possible disqualification) that some tyre when worn, or deflecting under racing conditions was illegal,
3) We should be able to have slicks again :-)

[Gt_R]

I don't quite understand the single tyre ruling either.

Last season was competitive mainly because of the tyres. If everyone was on the same tyres, Ferrari would have won much easily. A great tyre + a great car may result in total domination, but there's always a good chance of a great-tyre/poor-car vs great-car/poor-tyres fight.

A single tyre ruling will also result in harder (and less sticky) compounds as the tyre manufacturer do not need to focus too much on outright speed and grip, rather it's lifespan. Won't that reduce on track racing?

And who said a single tyre manufacturer would take away an "exclusive" deal? the tyre manufacturer would still favour the team that could give them the "coverage". Small teams will still have to live with less than suitable tyres.

[freud]

F1 R.I.P.

The new changes are the final nail in the coffin of f1.

Dont get excited by manual gearing. Max Mosely has just converted F1 into a slightly faster version of F3000. This is utter disgusting and another step backwards.

I just hope that the teams scrap this proposition and throw it out of the window. Max Mosely deserves a kick up his ****.

[freud]

Originally posted by Hugh Jarce
'sooped up' F3000

perfect terminology...

I just cant understand why is Moseley so adamant on reducing f1 speeds?? A moron can tell him that f1 is more safe for drivers these days than even the poor Marshalls. But can he lock all his Marshalls behind cages??

Max is playing a political game again. The idea is not to settle the sport down and let smaller teams grow in their technology. He simply wants the big teams to win and continue winning.

[josvandeperre]

Didn't Cosworth make a 2.5 litre 4 valve V8 with excellent reliability back in the sixties - bring back the DFW...

[Sodemo]

No no no no!
Don't people understand??!?!
A single tyre supplier would be exremely bad for F1. Why is everyone in favour of this?
A single tyre supplier means an end to soft sticky tyres and they would just use a super hard compound like Bridgestone did in 1999 to save costs.
The racing then suffers (as we saw in 1999) as the mechanical grip is reduced.
Why don't people realise this?

[1200Datto27]

Short memories.

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by freud
F1 R.I.P.

The new changes are the final nail in the coffin of f1.

Dont get excited by manual gearing. Max Mosely has just converted F1 into a slightly faster version of F3000. This is utter disgusting and another step backwards.

I just hope that the teams scrap this proposition and throw it out of the window. Max Mosely deserves a kick up his ****.

You're talking rubbish.

I've heard this line about F1 RIP so many times in the past - and it has never come true.

The changes proposed by Max adress a problem which does exist.

Do you not want to see better racing?

[alfasud]

Originally posted by josvandeperre
Didn't Cosworth make a 2.5 litre 4 valve V8 with excellent reliability back in the sixties - bring back the DFW...

2.5L Tasman Formula version. Was beaten by Chris Amon's Ferrari 246T 2.4L V6.

http://8w.forix.com/tasman69.html
http://www.sergent.com.au/tas69s.html

[Fondmetal]

have it back to the way it was late 80's early 90s 2200mm width, 18 inch rear slicks and have low noses and big wings

[gttouring]

Absolutely crackers
A single tyre is a good start, but even better, a one tyre perweekend rule- very hard compound, and a possible change to wets, if needed.
shrinking the motor? BAH open the rules, cap the revs but allow for 4-16 cylinders any type just 3 litres. stand behind the formula that works for so many ages,
If not it seem as if they are leaning on Champcar style spec, sans turbo.
Ferrous Brakes-In F1? ARRRGH

[freud]

Originally posted by 1200Datto27
How about no refuelling (including qualifying!) but make it so that there are a number of tyre compounds available (like we used to have) so that teams could run a harder compuond at the start when fule loads are heavy, and change later in the race to suit conditions. It would also avoid what happens now when a driver makesthe wrong tyre choice on Friday, and essentially destroys hisweekend.

1200Ditto27,
I dont know if you have ever watched a full f1 GP or followed a full GP weekend..

Basically a driver does infact choses all his sets of tyres before the race. He can infact change the hardness of his tyres by putting in different number of laps on each set of tyres during the practice session.

And btw, banning refuelling is stupid. Pitstops were never as fun as they are now.

[climb]

Sort of agree with freud; fuel strategy is an element of uncertainty that makes races more interesting, so why banning them?

[1200Datto27]

Because the new rules make it so that virtually everyone is doing the same thing.

Freud, I watch every GP that I can, and follow as much of them as is possible here, and have been doing so for the last 15 years. Heat cycling of tyres in practice will make a small differnce to the tyre, but I am talking about the days where there was a number of different compounds available during the race for the team and driver to choose from. You used to hear Murrey going on about all of the differnt options available, and drivers could take a risk that the softest option would let them catch up and pass another driver before the tyres died. Imagine if one of the top drivers fell off the track, and was able to come into the pits to chuck on a soft set of tyres and use them to regain position in the race.

[Teretonga]

Thye DFW was beaten in the Tasman series by the V6 Ferrari but that was also because the V6 was in a lightweight F2 chassis and the DFW in a F1 weight Lotus 49, and the lotus was generally faster but more fragile...in '69.

[JAG]

Originally posted by freud
F1 R.I.P.

The new changes are the final nail in the coffin of f1.

Dont get excited by manual gearing. Max Mosely has just converted F1 into a slightly faster version of F3000. This is utter disgusting and another step backwards.

I just hope that the teams scrap this proposition and throw it out of the window. Max Mosely deserves a kick up his ****.

The final nail in the coffin will be if the F1 manufatuers get there way, and no changes are implimented.

Aside from the continuation of utterly mind numbingly dull racing (and fans like myself walking away in droves from F1), speeds will continue to get out of control, and drivers WILL be killed. It is pure luck there have been no large accidents and no driver killed in the last few years!

Why have sportscars, Champ Cars, IRL, Rallying all been forced to implement new regs to make the cars slower and safer, while speeds in F1 have been allowed to go totally out of control.

Believe me watching a car on track that is 5-10 seconds slower will make no difference whatsoever.

[slicktoast]

Before we know it, it'll be 2008. But it seems like a lot of retro-f*rts want to go back to 1958! Then again the current direction hasn't made it all that exciting for us fans either. I don't think there is a set of rules that would satisfy everyone. Peeyoo, what's that awful smell surrounding me