2017 IndyCar Series schedule

[rwintle]

Originally Posted by Salamus

Lime Rock would be a really cool track to see Indycars on. Don't think the safety standards are good enough though.

Beautiful track but I think it would be a disaster for IndyCars. Such a short track, often referred to by the sportscar folks as a "bullring". Not quite as bad as multi-class endurance racing, but imagine IndyCar lap traffic there? They can barely get by each other at places like Barber without tripping over each other. LRP would be an enormous crashfest I think.

Go on IndyCar, prove me wrong!

[fieldodreams79]

A continuation from Road America thread on street circuits.

Purist, Did someone say anything about Sebring? I didn't know some wanted a race there. I like street circuits and I like the bumps of Sebring but Indycars don't need to race there. I don't like things thrown together, at a generally not so nice place to race or even drive an Indycar when perfectly good circuits are available and have history surrounding them.

It's not a new phenomenon as it's proved time and time again that new street courses don't last and in general, don't work well. But there's always that one guy or group that thinks they can do it. Prove me wrong and get a good, long standing street race or is the one or two off temp street course thing appealing because it's unique? If that's it, I get it, but just don't get efforts made to something temporary.

[Purist]

No, nobody said anything about Sebring in that thread, but it has been brought up before, and again, it goes back to the very current and continuing complaints about "bumpy street circuits". And my feeling there is, how is one bad but the other is "fine"?

I prefer Laguna Seca over Sears Point, at least, the layout IndyCar uses, but it's probably not going to help to possibly burn bridges with SMI. Yes, Monterey has a much more extensive history hosting Indy Cars, and I'm fairly certain that the racing there would be better than on that modified version of the Motorcycle Circuit at Sonoma.

Not all the markets that might be or are a good idea for IndyCar to try to get in to have a suitable, permanent road course nearby; some don't have an oval either. For those that do, too many of those ovals, as you've noted, aren't that interesting, or that well-suited to host Indy Cars. I think the only more moderately banked intermediate oval left is Nashville. (Hey, if one of us wins the lottery, and can buy and get permission to upgrade Summit Point or Pacific Raceways, I'd be all for it.)

Often these street circuit events are trial and error in getting one going, but then again, that's an issue with any new venture. It would be nice to get Vancouver going again. Apart from that street circuit, I'm not sure what you do for a second Canadian event, especially out in Western Canada. It isn't worth it to me to chicane Mosport for Indy Cars, and that track has gone down in my estimation already with the addition of those paved run-offs, anyway. You'd have to do some negotiating to try to get back in at Mont Tremblant, and figure out the logistics of the facility. Montreal has comparisons to F1 in terms of performance, plus Bernie may not approve of IndyCar visiting if F1 is still there.

And there is the question of where you draw the line on what type of road course is it. What is Montreal? What is Belle Isle now? And what is it becoming as Penske has work done on it? As a bit of perspective, the ONLY permanent road course in Australia that I would definitely say outdoes Albert Park in my estimation is Phillip Island.

You can have major issues that cause a permanent venue to fall through as well; just look at what happened with Brasilia and NOLA. It isn't JUST the street circuits that are known to get state backing; ask EVERY F1 venue about that. (Even Monaco has to spend to repave at least portions of the circuit every year.)

[Purist]

I hadn't even looked at the RACER update until after doing that last post.

So, speaking of Australia:
http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/13...-series-return

[fieldodreams79]

I think a majority of sports and motor sports are missing something these days and need to get back their roots while taping into some much needed areas. Indycars need to re-tap New England and Northwest, so Vancouver and PIR easily for NW and New Hampshire for NE; this is both needs. What were attendance figures the last time Indycars raced at New Hampshire?

Bumps make the viewing fun and the race challenging; no problem. However, many attempts at new street courses often times appear amateurish with some of the bumps completely in excess, but if someone has the coin and a willing city to participate, by all means. I just don't think it's been an appeal to fans overall and in the long run...perhaps I'm wrong.

Oz? Meh. I think it's a neat race, but let's get some NA fans involved first. Overseas next.

When you win the lottery and race track hunting, I'd like a new gig, so be sure to hit me up! I'm a straight shooter with upper management written all over me!

[BudLightJaguar]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

What were attendance figures the last time Indycars raced at New Hampshire?

If I remember correctly, poor attendance was one of the reasons why NH Speedway didn't return in 2012.

Is there any particular reason why Roger Penske is not interested to have a race in Charlotte, on his home ground? I know the layout is similar as in TMS, but that could be solved easily: a night race would stay in Texas and Charlotte would have a day race in spring or fall.

[fieldodreams79]

I don't think indycar has been to Charlotte since the unfortunate incident where a wheel got into the grandstands and someone lost their life. Yet another reason I'd prefer ow cars on flat tracks....

[Purist]

It was three spectators killed at Charlotte in 1999 by that flying wheel.

As for the third oval in that template, Atlanta was dropped after 2001, in no small part, I'm sure, due to that 12-car pile-up that injured three or four drivers. This should have also been a wake-up call that would have hopefully precluded what occurred at Las Vegas in 2011.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW3MlDUq0CI

[Purist]

I don't see why the Gold Coast precludes anything to do with North American fans. There is an Aussie/Kiwi presence in the Series. Also, if you keep saying "later", it'll NEVER happen at all. So, what value is gained from that?

New Hampshire started relatively late in the day in 2011, I think, and the weather forecast wasn't too promising that day.

You're forgetting the Mid-Atlantic region and Texas in terms of major markets. If California warrants three races, Texas could certainly warrant two, but Eddie Gossage isn't interested in entertaining IndyCar going to Austin, hence, we got Houston again.

[fieldodreams79]

For Oz, it's a temporary move. Always has been and my previous thoughts on street races apply. I get there's a presence of nationalities in the series, hence Brasil. Indycars no longer have the American household name, so I think there's more emphasis needing to be placed stateside, rather than abroad. Perhaps they can have success there and if it's good for the series, then they should go. I'd just prefer them cater to fans here, imho. So much so, the parking lot in Houston is ahead of Oz, in my book.

On Texas, they are currently served but dump the speedway for COTA, as much as I hate it. And Indycar should go there before it closes

Mid Atlantic? No clue. No way they can go at VIR and Dover would be bonkers. Charlotte is out of the question.

Originally Posted by Purist

It was three spectators killed at Charlotte in 1999 by that flying wheel.

As for the third oval in that template, Atlanta was dropped after 2001, in no small part, I'm sure, due to that 12-car pile-up that injured three or four drivers. This should have also been a wake-up call that would have hopefully precluded what occurred at Las Vegas in 2011.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW3MlDUq0CI

^This. I was at the AMS race and thoughts of 99 in Charlotte were in my head the whole time. Then the pileup occurred, where debris and large parts did make their way into the empty portions of the grandstands. Afterwards, we got to sit through 67 laps of caution and see Dr. Jack Miller air lifted from his final race. This and Vegas is why I have such disdain for those tracks and these cars.

Yet in 2016 , they continue to go to these types of tracks that have a history of being more dangerous than THE speedway.

[Purist]

Gold Coast temporary? From what I can tell, during its run, 1991-2008, it's one of only four venues to host IndyCar/ChampCar races EVERY one of those years. The other three are Long Beach, Milwaukee, and Indianapolis.

As for "getting back to its roots", what exactly does that mean? It's kind of a pointless exercise if you can't even define what it is, because necessarily, you can't attain an indefinite goal. And just about everybody who remembers the "good old days", whenever that happened to be, has their own definition of what it means.

Also, until the 1984 CART season "international" included Canada and Mexico.

(Apart from living here, I just don't seem to have the circuitry in my brain that says my pursuits also have to be "American". It's an attitude I simply am unable to comprehend, and I fail to see value in it.)

Baltimore filled the Mid-Atlantic hole, at least to an extent. I'd be curious to see these cars at Rockingham (N.C.), assuming it's still there. It's less confined than Dover, and is in asphalt rather than concrete. So, it has a better surface and should have a wider racing line, but not so wide as to allow the madness we've seen at some of the 1.5-milers. And I do wonder if Richmond is going to be just a bit too tight with the pace of the current machinery.

The other oval with more than 14-degree banking that I'd consider is Michigan, naturally.

Apart from the flat, one-milers, the Series doesn't visit Pikes Peak, Gateway, or Nashville (assuming it's still around). Anyway, it gets a bit constricting when Charlotte, TMS, Atlanta, Kentucky, Chicagoland, Kansas, Las Vegas, Homestead, Dover, Bristol, Daytona, and Talladega are off the table from the get-go.

[Yannick]

My guess is the series and the fans couldn't be happier than if all of this year's events will continue next year, Gateway is added to the schedule, and Fontana and/or Milwaukee return.

It's so quiet about the Pocono race these days. Is that a good sign?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Yannick

My guess is the series and the fans couldn't be happier than if all of this year's events will continue next year, Gateway is added to the schedule, and Fontana and/or Milwaukee return.

It's so quiet about the Pocono race these days. Is that a good sign?

I'm happy with it; the RA Effect has certainly worked.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by Purist

Gold Coast temporary? From what I can tell, during its run, 1991-2008, it's one of only four venues to host IndyCar/ChampCar races EVERY one of those years. The other three are Long Beach, Milwaukee, and Indianapolis.

As for "getting back to its roots", what exactly does that mean? It's kind of a pointless exercise if you can't even define what it is, because necessarily, you can't attain an indefinite goal. And just about everybody who remembers the "good old days", whenever that happened to be, has their own definition of what it means.

Also, until the 1984 CART season "international" included Canada and Mexico.

(Apart from living here, I just don't seem to have the circuitry in my brain that says my pursuits also have to be "American". It's an attitude I simply am unable to comprehend, and I fail to see value in it.)

Baltimore filled the Mid-Atlantic hole, at least to an extent. I'd be curious to see these cars at Rockingham (N.C.), assuming it's still there. It's less confined than Dover, and is in asphalt rather than concrete. So, it has a better surface and should have a wider racing line, but not so wide as to allow the madness we've seen at some of the 1.5-milers. And I do wonder if Richmond is going to be just a bit too tight with the pace of the current machinery.

The other oval with more than 14-degree banking that I'd consider is Michigan, naturally.

Apart from the flat, one-milers, the Series doesn't visit Pikes Peak, Gateway, or Nashville (assuming it's still around). Anyway, it gets a bit constricting when Charlotte, TMS, Atlanta, Kentucky, Chicagoland, Kansas, Las Vegas, Homestead, Dover, Bristol, Daytona, and Talladega are off the table from the get-go.

Point taken on Gold Coast.

Good old days? I don't know when that is other than NOT right now, but I never said anything about that.

Getting back to roots means keeping it about the fans and keeping it simple, something this series hasn't done well recently. Road America seemed like a move in the right direction.

And imo, American means North America.

The Rock was auctioned back in May or April. Nothing from a search on ownership but I don't think Indycars would go well there. I'd watch as I love the Rock, but tire wear would be an issue.

I enjoyed Richmond the last go round. Is it any tighter than Iowa?

[Purist]

Iowa is 0.875 of a mile, and Richmond is 0.750 of a mile, so there is a difference.

You haven't said anything of the kind, but I've just seen too many comments in too many places from people who just seem to want a return to mandatory front-engined cars with no wings, dirt ovals, all races in the US, and few, if any, road courses of any stripe.

I get keeping it about the fans.

As for "keeping it simple", that's not so clear. Part of the problem is something we see everywhere, which is, everybody wanting and trying to do everyone else' job, because they want control. It also doesn't help that you have the Speedway looking after its own stuff, and it's sort of up to the Series and events, as separate entities from the Speedway in a number of regards, to figure out their end, with the Speedway calling shots all the while. It's not exactly a simple arrangement to start with.

[fieldodreams79]

Simple isn't clear because as you say, there's too many people pulling too many strings, which is a problem. This is now borderline state of IndyCar discussion. We started with street races and my desire for no more. Currently, 20% of the races are street races, which is plenty. And yes, Belle Isle is a street race so I guess that's more than 20%.

The lack of enthusiasm in general for the series right now indicates they either need to try something completely new or try to return to something that worked it the past. I vote for past. Tracks they've used and we're made famous for in the past. This is what I think most of the fans would want, but that's just me.

Edit, I see the difference in lengths but don't see why Richmond won't work anymore, if Iowa does.

[Purist]

I didn't say Richmond wouldn't be alright, but I wonder a little, given the performance of the current cars compared to what ran there the last time.

[MoMedic9019]

Milwaukee is unlikely to return to the schedule ever.

There is no promoter, and even when there was, nobody showed up. People in Milwaukee just don't care about the Mile like they used to. Marshall brought up a good point on MWM, that IndyCar needs to not just pander to tradition, but, to places where the money, racing, crowd and marketing works.

Another reason that Fontana is likely gone for good too.

I personally am a fan of those ideas... less ovals, more road courses.

[fieldodreams79]

Fair points, Mo. I think Road America proved that tradition, racing, money, crowd and marketing worked well enough.

Outside of the few posters here, I know a single, solitary IndyCar fan, so I don't really know what "they" want and where they'll show up.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Fair points, Mo. I think Road America proved that tradition, racing, money, crowd and marketing worked well enough.

Outside of the few posters here, I know a single, solitary IndyCar fan, so I don't really know what "they" want and where they'll show up.

Without a doubt, there were a vast number of people on the ground at RA who were clear first timers to both RA, and IndyCar in person, though, I think there were equal numbers of prior attendees. What will be interesting is if the numbers can be maintained into the coming years.

I'll suspect yes, but, ticket prices need to come down a slight bit, OR they need to continue with the earlybird package as they did this year. The other thing I'd like to see is an additonal series or two added. There were some gaps in the weekend that made it feel a little less full. The race stat time needs to also be pushed back. IndyCar should be the final event on Sunday, not the middle of the day.

As a sidebar, I have major complaints with the way RA does their camping, but, it didn't seem to affect much. There were more campers and motorhomes than I've ever seen there. This blew that crappy second tier NASCAR series out of the water in terms of attendance. Regardless of what Bruggenthies says, NASCAR only draws about 20k for the weekend, 98% on raceday only.

[fieldodreams79]

I happen to like the crappy second tier nascar series at Road America and all road course stockcar races. However, Indy having the bigger crowd is the way it should be.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

I happen to like the crappy second tier nascar series at Road America and all road course stockcar races. However, Indy having the bigger crowd is the way it should be.

I know a lot of people do, but, man, that day takes FOR-EVER. So little on the schedule.

[rwintle]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

I happen to like the crappy second tier nascar series at Road America and all road course stockcar races. However, Indy having the bigger crowd is the way it should be.

+1 for this. The Pinty's (was Canadian Tire) NASCAR Series at CTMP (aka Mosport) is very entertaining. That's more like third- or fourth-tier NASCAR though.

They're back on the Streets of Toronto at the IndyCar weekend, which is a whole different story. Loud and popular with the fans, guaranteed some crashiness too which certainly appeals to some of the fans.

[Purist]

A few places are on the radar for possible addition in the next couple seasons.
http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/13...dule-prospects

[Yannick]

Originally Posted by Purist

A few places are on the radar for possible addition in the next couple seasons.
http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/13...dule-prospects

It's good to see things are looking up, but it's sad that there is no mention of Milwaukee amongst the possible additions to the schedule.